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Did an edit to better explain
Hi Jan,
I seem to get better quality from PDR13/14 when I use GPStudio and Cineform to trim and convert to AVI before editing with PDR13/14. Have you seen any difference in final PDR output?
Al
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Yes GoPro clips. A little dissipointed because one of the reasons I upgraded is because PD 14 was advertized as now being able to support those higher frame rates....
Does anybody know why you would produce to a higher frame rate then the original source clips were?
I use GoPro Studio (free) to trim my clips (I keep about 10% of what I shoot) and I use higer frame rate settings whenever I think I might want to SloMo. GPStudio first converts all clips to CineformAVI which is an intermediate codec and is better for editing than the GoPro compressed Mp4 clips and does a great job on SloMo. I also use GPStudio for color correction. Once you have the desired result save the clip at your planned PDR14 project frame rate (30p or 60p) as an AVI and import into PDR14 and contine editing. It sounds a bit drawn out but it's actually quick and easy. Enjoy!
Al
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Is it GoPro clips?
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Protune images are decompressed but not true RAW so conventional color correction may not work because it is a Cineform codec image. GoPro Studio uses Cineform and will give you the improved colors you are looking for using the Protune preset with the camera flat setting.
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Protune is close to RAW video but is designed to be used in GoProStudio with the Cineform codec. You will see a Protune preset in the lower right box in GPStudio. Apply the preset and then export the clip.
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I'm very happy with Verbatum BD-R. Look at latest reviews.
Al
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Hi Douglas6836 - Download the free trial verson of PDR14 and try it. I found it's better to first resize pics to your planned output format.
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Personally I don't think that Intel's Skylake or Broadwell is a significant desktop jump from Haswell (1150) yet. Benchmarks indicate marginal performance improvements so far so I'll hang on. New Intel 6, 8, and 10 core CPUs coming early next year.
The move to 4k is not cheap (cameras, Tv, etc) so your PC for editing should have enough power and storage.
Here is Intel plan for 2015/16.
http://wccftech.com/intel-2016-roadmap-leaked-confirms-kaby-lakes-10-core-broadwelle-apollo-lake-processors/
Stick with Intel CPUs
I would also add
2X3TB 7200rpm HDDs in Raid 0 - fast and cheap.
A 256 GB SSD for Windows and Power Director.
The debate over the best Graphics card for PDR13/14 continues. Lots of info on the forum.
Or if you want best value today I think the Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.00GHz is adequate for 4k.
https://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4790K+%40+4.00GHz&id=2275
And follow Robert's suggestion above.
Enjoy,
Al
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Hi AlS, thx for contributing to my posts!
Ok sweet, I get how the AVI files are uncompressed and have no loss of quality but Im curious why you trim in GoPro Studio? Couldnt you just convert all your clips you want to edit to AVI, then insert to PD13 then trim from there too? Or is it to save space cause converting a whole clip will produce larger files?
I will give your editing workflow a go as I do also have GoPro Studio installed on my PC! Also, am I right in thinking that Protune is a setting that produces videos that is equivalent to RAW files in Photography? A file that has RAW data, can be manipulated (WB, color temperature, sharpness, exposure etc) without ever loosing quality?
Hi - I trim in GPStudio as I often have hours od GoPro footage and only use a few minutes so I have smaller files for PDR13. You will notice that GPstudio will not edit until all files have been converted to AVI using the Cineform codec. This is because the files from your camera are highly compressesd (MP4) and not good for editing.
I then take it a step further and use GPStudio to slo-mo and color correct the clips if needed (the Cineform AVI files are 10 bit color depth for more accurate adjustment) and save the clips as Cineform AVI. The file sizes are now larger than your MP4 files because they have been decompressed so that every frame is now a keyframe - which is much better for editing. Import the AVI files into PDR13 and produce your final product. GPStudio is a very limited and basic editor but excellent for trimming, adjusting and converting to Cineform.
You are right. PROTUNE is very close to RAW and better for the reasons you mentioned. It was specifically developed to use with Cineform and when you import the Protune clip into GPStudio you will see in the bottom right corner a Preset specifically for Protune. To me the result is a more accurate and color realistic result than the color correction done in the GoPro camera on non-Protune files. I am truly amazed at what these tiny cameras can produce. I'll PM you my email for further GoPro discussions and to compare notes.
Al
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HDEdit "Laptops in general do not have enough reserve in either number crunching or data transfer capability for HD and hgher video projects. A desktop made in the past 5 years with an i5 or higher CPU can outperform."
This might be worth looking at.
HP's latest Z-series laptops: powerful workstations for video
Al
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I am a GoPro fan (Hero 3+ Black Ed) and have had mixed results with PDR13. I shoot 1080p and 720p at a high framerate (100fps PAL) because I never know when I want to use slo-mo. High framerate = better slo-mo.
If you have the latest edition of GoPro Studio (free) you will see that it comes with the full Cineform professional codec. I use GoPro Studio to trim my clips. You will see that it produces Cineform AVI files which are larger than you original clips. Cineform is is now the standard for the Movie Industry. Basically highly compressed video formats (MP4) are not good for editing - with any software. The Cineform AVI files produced in GPStudio are de-compressed larger files with no quality loss. Every frame is now a Keyframe which is far better for editing.
I have also found that the SloMo in GPStudio is better and smoother than PDR13 so I SloMo and color correct in GPStidio then select your PDR13 project settings (30fps?) and output high quality Cineform AVI files from GPStudio and import the AVI files into PDR13 for more advanced editing, key-framing etc. PDR13 will use the Cineform AVI files on the timeline as long as it is installed on your PC. Output quality is a lot better.
Next, for best GoPro quality use a professional setting called ProTune which is very close to professional RAW quality and records more detail. GPStudio has a Protune Preset using Cineform which will give you better quality output.
See link
https://gopro.com/support/articles/advanced-protune-controls-explained
Al
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Tips for when you get back.
I have a Hero3+ Blk and I have found that for best results I use the latest GoPro Studio for trimming clips and color correction. Use the AVI files created by GP Studio and import into PDR14. These are Cineform codec which works great in PDR14.
I recommend you shoot 1080 60p or even 720 120p if you want to use slo-mo for HD.
It is truly an amazing little camera. The more you use it the more you will see it's potential.
Enjoy!
Al
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Thanks Jeff,
Will do. The fishing DVD was done by some of my fishing pals to promote their family tackle shop. Low budget but I'll speak to the camera man who is a pal of theirs as I'm not sure what NLE, DVD encoder and hardware he uses.
Are the MediaInfo differences significant in terms of quality?
What encoder did you get? Is it using a different codec?
I got Power2Go 10 Deluxe with my PDR14 upgrade - any chance it might do a better job if I produce a higher quality MPEG2 file with PDR13?
Thanks for the advice - will let you know what I find.
Al
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Hi Jeff - unfortunately my internet here on my farm is veeery slow (like bush telegraph with drums) so my uploads fail on large files.
Please check my MediaInfo files attached to my post. Not sure if the differences are significant.
Thanks
Al
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Thanks Barry - I edited the post after your reply and added more info.
If the problem is workflow or original footage (garbage in - garbage out) I would assume it would affect the HD AVCHD and BluRay DVDs but both are excellent quality.
Al
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Jeff.
Thanks again for your help.
I have only tried with PAL at a display rate of 25 frames per second, interlaced - 720×576 pixels so I don't know about NTSC results for DVD quality.
As I said before, Option 1) (Create DVD from the HD timeline) is not acceptable (terrible) quality.
If I Produce a MPEG2 DVD HQ preset file in PDR13 and the use ADD FILE in Create Disc, will the added file remain unchanged on the DVD or will PDR13 convert it?
If I create a Custom MPEG2 profile with an average bitrate of 9Mbps and a maximum of 9.8Mbps (see attached) will Create Disc retain those custom settings? (please check my "Mode" and "Advanced Settings" in the custom profile to see if my settings are the best for DVD quality.
Your comment: "there is no way it will look like 1920x1080 24Mbps footage. Others compare to purchased DVD's, again, PD will never match that, especially for dynamic panning footage." is valid but I have purchased and seen many non-professional locally produced DVDs with far better viewing quality than I am able to produce with PDR13.
I am viewing the DVDs with 1) A Samsung LCD 1080p HD TV and a Samsung DVD player and 2) A 52" Sony 1080p HD LCD TV and a Samsung Home Theater system with a BluRay Player and a USB Port. Not sure about the "upscaling" feature. In both cases my PDR13 DVDs look bad compared to others.
Bitrate may not be the problem. I have attached a MediaInfo comparison. My PDR13 DVD is on the left side and a locally produced DVD (fishing) withy much better viewing quality (lower bitrate) on the right. I have highlighted the video differences in yellow. Note the audio format is also different.
Al
Al
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Thanks Jeff,
If 9.8Mbps is not possible could you suggest a procedure to get best possible quality from PDR13. ie: should I produce my project to MPEG2 with PDR13 and then re-import to Create Disk, or produce to H.264 HD MP4 50p file and use third party converter to convert from MP4 to MPEG2 25p and import to PDR13 and Create DVD?
Al
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Hi FFP916 ,
I am a GoPro fan (Hero 3+ Black Ed) and have had mixed results with PDR13. I shoot 1080p and 720p at a high framerate (100fps PAL) because I never know when I want to use slo-mo. High framerate = better slo-mo.
If you have the latest edition of GoPro Studio (free) you will see that it comes with the full Cineform professional codec. I use GoPro Studio to trim my clips. You will see that it produces Cineform AVI files which are larger than you original clips. Cineform is is now the standard for the Movie Induatry. Basically highly compressed video formats (MP4) are not good for editing - with any software. The Cineform AVI files produced in GPStudio are de-compressed larger files with no quality loss. Every frame is now a Keyframe which is far better for editing.
I have also found that the SloMo in GPStudio is better and smoother than PDR13 so I SloMo and color correct in GPStidio then select your PDR13 project settings (30fps?) and output high quality Cineform AVI files from GPStudio and import the AVI files into PDR13 for more advanced editing, key-framing etc. PDR13 will use the Cineform AVI files on the timeline as long as it is installed on your PC. Output quality is a lot better.
Next, for best GoPro quality use a professional setting called ProTune which is very close to professional RAW quality and records more detail. GPStudio has a Protune Preset using Cineform which will give you better quality output.
See link
https://gopro.com/support/articles/advanced-protune-controls-explained
Al
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As long as it works for you and you are happy with the quality then all is good. Quality is very much in the eye of the observer and the type of footage one is working with.
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I put all the files into the timeline and edited out the junk. I then produced a .m2ts file at default settings.
Now I have a 13 gb file to work with.
Typical approach here would be to create a "Produce" profile that matches your source footage. "Intelligent SVRT" often good for identifying a profile but maybe not ideal to encode the footage with SVRT. Your produced .m2ts at "default", whatever setting that is, may or may not be the best. Again, if you are happy with the results, that's what counts.
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DVD was burned at default settings, (MPEG2) and the BD disc as H.264. VERY pleased with the results of both formats.
Similar thoughts here, one has 3 very common different H.264 settings for putting basic HD 1920x1080 content timeline unto a BD. The quality can be vastly different, 16Mbps bitrate vs 28Mbps interlaced or progressive can be very significant quality difference for some footage. Again, if you are happy with your BD, that's what counts.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I'm also confused. I have a 30 min HD project with 1920x1080 slides and 1080 50p MP4 clips. When I Create Disk the quality looks good for AVCHD DVD (needs a BluRay player) and BluRayDVD but if I Create a normal DVD from the project quality is terrible with noise and flicker. If I Produce the project to a file and then re-import into PDR13 and Create Disc using DVD what is the best format to use? I can't see where M2TS would help as PDR would still re-convert to MPEG2. Could you recommend a "standard" approach to get best quality 9.8 Mbit/sec MPEG2 quality DVD-R from a 1920x1080 50p HD project?
Thanks,
Al
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Wow, those sequential write SSD speeds are twice as fast as mine and the sequential read speed is 5x higher (about the same as my RAMDrive)!
What's the Transcend series you're using? I think you need them to keep your 8-core Wildebeest CPU busy! No wonder you feel like a teenager
Wow is right. That amazing benchmark is due to the Intel 1.2TB SSD. It is 4X Performance vs. SATA based SSDs. I was impressed with my SSD until now. See http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/solid-state-drives-750-series.html
2,500 MB/sec sequential read vs my 500.
Al
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Paul,
What is this ? Only one CPU socket in your machine ? Not even a pair of Xeon E5-2697 in sight ?
No IPS display ? And only 28" ?
Seriously though, the 2 xGTX 970s are a waste.
A single GTX 960 would have been better.
I would have gone with 7200pm rpm HDDs rather than SSHD, too. I don't see how SSHD can help for video editing. The SSD part is too small to matter. And for caching you have the 64GB RAM in your PC.
How do you like HC-X1000 ? I wonder how it performs indoor or lowlight with the small sensor.
Paul - it a great setup I would love to have. Pro Editors like DaVinci Resolve now have multi-GPU support so your 2 xGTX 970s are not a waste and should be supported by Power Director. Jealousy makes us ugly.
With an 8 core 16 thread i7 CPU it looks more like a Buffalo than a Wildbeest!
Al
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