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Is the PD15 worth upgrading?

I was debating on upgrading to 15 but so far I have not seen any major improvements or read anything here that has convinced me that it is a improvement over 14.

Did they make the masking so you can freehand areas? Fix the BD menu area?

Seeing how I have a small fortune tied up in this software updating every year, I would expect some major improvements. It seems like the "upgrade" should be another "update."
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Alain II [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Jan 20, 2015 01:34 Messages: 136 Offline
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Quote: Is the PD15 worth upgrading?

I was debating on upgrading to 15 but so far I have not seen any major improvements or read anything here that has convinced me that it is a improvement over 14.

Did they make the masking so you can freehand areas? Fix the BD menu area?

Seeing how I have a small fortune tied up in this software updating every year, I would expect some major improvements. It seems like the "upgrade" should be another "update."


My personal feeling is... NO, except if you buy at a small price like Cyberlink is offering until the 12th of this month. An interesting free addition is AudioDirector 7.

Alain II
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Is Audio director pushing the price up? I don't need it and if so it's made the software too expensive. Half price and it's still $94 AUD just for the upgrade, last year's was way less at $59 AUD for the same. Asus P8Z68 Deluxe/Gen3 Mainboard : Intel i7 2700k @ 3.6ghz: 12 gb DDR3 Kingston ram:
2TB WD Black HD's: Asus GTX970 4gb ram: Windows 10 Pro 64bit:

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Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia (Port Stephens area, NSW) Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
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Hello all!

I took a look at a presentation video promoting PD15 via YouTube recently. To be frank, I don't think ANY of the suggestions posted in the thread title "Suggestions For Power Director 15" got within a bull's roar of being included. The 360-degree editing function could potentially drain a computer's resources(just guessing) but I really see no point in it, to be honest. As for 9:16 editing, this panders to those people who use mobile phones to shoot video, rather than dedicated video cameras. And when mobile phones are being used, they're held vertically(portrait) rather than horizontally(landscape). I see no point in encouraging such manner of videography, it kind-of defeats the purpose of 16:9 wide-screen shooting. Beyond this, PD15 doesn't really offer much beyond what's already available in PD14, so, I'll stick with PD14 for editing(and PD8, for analogue capture/enhance/aspect ratio conversion/disc authoring). PD8 and 14 together, have all I need for processing video, now and for the forseeable future.

Cheers!

Neil.
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Thank Neil,
My PDR14 is stable and I'm waiting to hear more feedback from users who have upgraded. Wondering if 4k editing is any better and if render speed improved. I agree - very disappointed suggestions not implemented. If you want the best PDR15 price wait until a month before PDR16 is launched!
Al

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 14. 2016 05:26

Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
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All vodi
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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Ditto. Not much improvement in function. A bit better visual as PD15 now uses the system font size format. Win 10, i7
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CS2014
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
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So in PD15 - is there no 1080p 120fps editing (or higher resolutions with higher frame rates) ????? They didn't 'upgrade' the editing to allow this yet (correct/incorrect???)?

I'm presuming it is not offered yet ..... dang!

CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 15. 2016 09:16

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
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Carl312
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9081 Offline
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Quote: So in PD15 - is there no 1080p 120fps editing (or higher resolutions with higher frame rates) ????? They didn't 'upgrade' the editing to allow this yet (correct/incorrect???)?

I'm presuming it is not offered yet ..... dang!

CS
It is in Produce, H.264 AVC 1920x1080/120p (60 Mbps).

I assume that if you imported a 120 fps video, you would have no problem editing. (I do not have one to test). Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9800 Offline
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Hi CS -

As Carl says, you can import & produce 1080/720p 120fps & produce to the equivalent output with AVC H.264 MP4/MTS/MKV... & SVRT works on the clips I've used.

What you cannot do is set your timeline preferences to 120fps.

Cheers - Tony
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CS2014
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
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Edit: deletion of my original comment and inquiry

I think the my original inquiry I had was not related to the OP so I'll delete it. SOrry Guys for the off topic tangent.

I think I was heading down that road of determining if it's worth upgrading based on if PD15 was able to edit 1080p 120fps and wanted to know more about what PD can do with that regard, before I said if I thought it was worth upgrading or not. If it can't then I'm not as intereted in upgrading.

BUt I think the question really relates to what individual characteristic is desired from the user and whether PD provides that feature from manipulating video. Kind of an individual preference comes into play I think. nuff said


CS

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Oct 16. 2016 09:37

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4493 Offline
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Quote: Hi CS -

As Carl says, you can import & produce 1080/720p 120fps & produce to the equivalent output with AVC H.264 MP4/MTS/MKV... & SVRT works on the clips I've used.

What you cannot do is set your timeline preferences to 120fps.

Cheers - Tony

I think the OP was a question of PD14 to PD15 upgrade worth while. Is not all this description of what should be available the same in PD14 and PD15? What's new? I see a few new bugs with PD15 however, for instance if one produces some H.264 MP4, 1920x1080/120p 60Mbs footage as part of a project, use this in timeline and simply trims a little off, PD can't even return the default produce profile with Intelligent SVRT, PD14 could. PD15 reencodes the whole split content, PD14 didn't, why?

Jeff
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9800 Offline
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Hi Jeff -

Yes - I was distracted from the OP's question when responding to CS about frame rates.

Your observation, of course, is correct about PDR14's SVRT vs PDR15's. I hope you're not asking me why that is so? Remember, I'm the guy who couldn't tell the difference between a display port & HDMI! embarassed

I just imported a 720p 120fps 24Mbps clip into PDR15 (no editing). SVRT was triggered. Same clip in PDR14 - no go, even though the same MP4 profile is in both versions. I can't explain that either.

Cheers - Tony
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Hi Tony,
On Cyber website the claim a new render engine in PDR15.
Have you noticed any differences?
Is PDR15 any better at 4k editing performance?
Thanks
Al Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4493 Offline
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Quote: Hi Tony,
On Cyber website the claim a new render engine in PDR15.
Have you noticed any differences?
Any improvement very dependent on what formats you produce to, most profiles appear similar but a few niche benefits summarized here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49577.page#260732 , and also confirmed by Tony. I have not seen any significant retardation.

Quote: Is PDR15 any better at 4k editing performance?
No, not really.

I've really only seen two items in PD15 release that address better timeline editing of high quality source.

1) They removed some more of the CPU throttling that was in place for shadow file generation so for some video source formats shadow files are now generated faster. Really missed the mark of global needed improvements in my view with this very minor tweak. They removed some CPU throttling in PD14 as well, why didn't they simply expose this same capability at the time rather than string users on. http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49583.page

2) They finally offered some timeline GPU playback decoding of high quality source footage for those that have advanced GPU's. Until now, even though many forum contributors recommended advanced GPU's for timeline fluidity, they provided no data to substantiate and even though a PD check box was available in pref to use GPU decoding, GPU decoding was really not utilized for these formats as a few forum colleagues noted. Yes the GPU is capable, the PD software was not. Still pretty much the case, obviously they released something half evaluated and a few have noted it does not work properly. http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49689.page#261430

Maybe the decode issue will be fixed in a PD15 patch, one can only wait and see, however, many of us had been showing the shortfall with verification for a long time, http://forum.cyberlink.com//forum/posts/list/25/45503.page#236759

Those are the only two items I know of that directly address working with high quality source, as such, each individual needs to evaluate their own situation.

Jeff

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 16. 2016 10:54

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philF [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jul 11, 2014 21:52 Messages: 6 Offline
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Wishing I hadn't. My PD14 was running great!
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Jeff - Thanks I fell behind on your extensive GPU testing. Thanks for bringing me up to date with links to posts I missed.
Seems NLE software design varies a lot.
My brief experience is as follows:
Edius was always CPU based and uses more available memory. Ver 8 claims much faster render times since they added acceleration with Intel HD Graphics. When I tested 8 I could edit 2 layers of 4k on my i5 once I upgraded to 16gb memory with smooth HQ preview.
DaVinci Resolve is very GPU hungry. It supports up to eight GPUs on a PC - and chokes on my poor little i5.
Not sure how Premiere handles GPU for editing/render.

Just observations - not benchmarks.

Surely Cyberlink's claim as the fastest render engine in the industry is subjective depending on effects, input/output formats etc?

My plan was to make the shift to 4k with PDR15 and a PC upgrade but not sure PDR is ready yet.
I noticed in your one example, you are transcoding from 2K to HD for editing. Do you turn off shadow files? Does it help for 4k editing?

I was really hoping Cyberlink would have done more to improve edit and render with GPU power based all all the info you have provided. I sometimes get the impression you have put more effort in than they have.

Thanks again,
Al



Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4493 Offline
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Quote Jeff - Thanks I fell behind on your extensive GPU testing. Thanks for bringing me up to date with links to posts I missed.
Seems NLE software design varies a lot.
My brief experience is as follows:
Edius was always CPU based and uses more available memory. Ver 8 claims much faster render times since they added acceleration with Intel HD Graphics. When I tested 8 I could edit 2 layers of 4k on my i5 once I upgraded to 16gb memory with smooth HQ preview.
DaVinci Resolve is very GPU hungry. It supports up to eight GPUs on a PC - and chokes on my poor little i5.
Not sure how Premiere handles GPU for editing/render.

Just observations - not benchmarks.

Surely Cyberlink's claim as the fastest render engine in the industry is subjective depending on effects, input/output formats etc?

My plan was to make the shift to 4k with PDR15 and a PC upgrade but not sure PDR is ready yet.
I noticed in your one example, you are transcoding from 2K to HD for editing. Do you turn off shadow files? Does it help for 4k editing?

I was really hoping Cyberlink would have done more to improve edit and render with GPU power based all all the info you have provided. I sometimes get the impression you have put more effort in than they have.

Thanks again,
Al


AIS, DaVinci Resolve is very GPU hungry by design as it's a GPU based code. Very different approach than what PD is doing, yes any iGPU or even mid range GPU would struggle with such, for that utility one really needs and can take advantage of one or more high end GPU's for effective editing. That discussion probably more approriate for a different board.

I don't know what type of test case substantiates "fastest" render engine in the industry PD claim as you ask, I've not seen the timeline or a project published by CL for such claims. I do use other NVENC encoders and they do beat PD on simple transcoding, hands down. When a software has release to release changes that resulted in 2X speed improvements on the same hardware, I’m sorry, one simply has to have massive coding shortfalls that were not properly debugged and optimized in previous release. http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49577.page#260732 How one can claim XX% faster when one has 2X factors floating in your own backyard is pretty strange to me. I can also see "fastest" being very easy to put together a timeline that would significantly bias one product over another as well. I honestly don't give much credence to the advertisement jargon, what matters to me is how the utility works for me and if the utility operates as the released features and user selectable options imply it should. My experience with PD has been less than stellar from this view, user editing results don't match released features, especially new releases. Often it appears similar old issues are churned yet again and again in a new release.

I don't use PD shadowfiles. However, I often need to transcode from a higher quality source to HD for distribution to various outlets, not for editing as you noted.

A case of simple transcode was shown here for a given user needs, http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49715.page#261667 for PD15 and I've added “Software B” below utilizing the same GTX1070 NVENC encoder, obviously PD nothing near the “fastest” for this. Overall filesize, produced file stats and visual quality appear very similar as they should. However, in other posts http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/49983.page#262922 user’s claim absolutely no surprise for PD14 being the fastest, I’m not sure why or how such a claim other than a very limited viewpoint perhaps? I simply see a mix, for some encoding tasks it’s in the mix or advantage, for others, clearly behind, so I’m not sure what constitutes the “fastest” claim.

Source: MPEG2 1920x1080/60i 25Mbps
Target 1: H.264 MP4, 1920x1080/30p 16Mbps (Default PD profile, avg video bitrate 15.5Mbps)

The table below lists [encode ratio, filesize(MB) , Produced video bitrate (Mbps)] encode ratio=timeline duration/encode time so the higher the better. A ratio of 10 would mean one can encode a 10min timeline duration in 1 minute.
GPUPD15 Target 1 Software B
GTX1070, 372.90 10.0 , 1166 , 15.5 22.7 , 1260, 15.5

"Software B" being more than 2.2x faster than PD15 for this simple transcode.

Jeff

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Oct 25. 2016 21:01

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Thanks again Jeff - Quote from PDR15 Ad

"PowerDirector 15 Ultimate Is the fastest and most creative video editing software in the world. Powered by the award-winning 64-bit TrueVelocity engine, PowerDirector provides unparalleled speed in rendering HD videos – including support for the latest 4K UltraHD and H.265/HEVC formats. "



Industry-leading Rendering Speed and Format Support

LEADING FORMATS & PERFORMANCE

Render with the world's fastest video engine: TrueVelocity 5 (I think they mean 6 not 5)



http://www.cyberlink.com/stat/edms/affiliate/Purch/PDR.jsp

https://www.amazon.com/Cyberlink-PDR-EF00-RPM0-00-PowerDirector-15-Ultimate/dp/B01LEZNCSG

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 26. 2016 04:03

Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
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Jeff - found this on performance impact of GPU cards on edit software. Seems there are significant improvements possible (ingore the ad after 6:30). Also AMD vs Nvidia. Premiere improved GPU performance with their Mercury engine.

"GPU vs CPU Video Rendering and Video Editing"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cQK8jFPzo Power Director 13&14 Ultimate, Photo Director 6, Audio Dir, Pwr2Go 10
Win 10 64, Intel MB DH87MC, Intel i5-4670 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 16Gb DDR3 1600, 128Gb SSD, 2x1Tb WDBlue 7200rpmSATA6, Intel 4600 GPU, Gigabyte G1 GTX960 4GB, LG BluRay Writer
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voom [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 04, 2015 09:16 Messages: 22 Offline
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I wonder why nobody has mentioned the new blending tools, they where the reason for me upgrading from 14. They may seem like a small feature, but actually they offer great possibilites.

I only hope I won't be affected by performance issues. Importing large MOV files has already proven to be a problem, working with those makes PD freeze badly.
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