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My initial reply to this topic is based on this Fuji (Movie Recording Mode) article: https://fujifilm-x.com/global/products/cameras/x-t3/feature-movie-recording/ . The chart shows that 4K are 10bit for H.265 and 8bit for avc (H.264) recordings. There are more selections in the article posted by ynotfish. It possibly means different firmware for the same camera.
The sample Maldive MOV clip is a 4K uhd hevc 10 bit 210 Mb/s 50 fps clip . The earlier GoPro’s can only record 4K as hevc 8 bit 64 Mb/s 60 fps (U.S.) and can be produced using any of the default profiles or with the Profile Analyzer suggestion. You don’t want to do that with 10 bit source video as there is no need for the higher bit rates(210 Mb/s) for 10 bits as PD365 can only produce in 8 bits. 50 Mb/s for 8 bits should be sufficient.
Until one day PD365 is upgraded to produce 10 bit videos, there is no need for higher than present bitrates for producing videos. Hope that this may help in answering the question about the GoPro’s compared to the Fuji X-T3 when using PD365. The latest GoPro can record videos in 10 bits. No one has posted such a clip for us to test yet.
Jeff answered first while I was still typing. SVRT does work on the GoPro produced files on my end to do more editing and corrections but SVRT does not work on the original GoPro files as noted.
Hi Tomasc,
Many thanks for you contribution.
I note your comments re the Fuji.
I intend to continue to shoot with the X-T3 in 10bit 50fps since one day I may be able to edit video and produce my output in a better final format than at present. It will be good to have the old footage backed up in higher quality than I'm able to use today.
I look at some of the videos I took of my two boys growing up. My Sony Hi8 was once considered to be pretty good, but now looks awful when compared to the phone in my pocket.
Why 50fps ? - No excuse really, save the fact that I have older siblings that still use DVDs / Blu rays. I have it in my head that it should be better to produce UK discs in PAL 25fps from original 50fps than 60fps.
As an aside - I have found when shooting faster moving objects that I often prefer the results from my GoPro to the Fuji.
I reckon it's just the rolling shutter operation / firmware employed.
Aircraft propellers look particularly strange from the Fuji !
I continue to use both cameras.
I'm never going to be a master with them, but heh, my last holiday video on Youtube was put there just for the family and not promoted anywhere... It got over 10,000 views ! ? Go figure !
(I've dropped my 360 deg camera and haven't carried it or used it for years...)
I note your comment regarding the latest GoPro being 10 bit. It also shoots in 5.3K and 8:7 format which could be fun to play with.
I have a birthday coming up - it might be an excuse to upgrade !
Many thanks once again.
Gerry
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Hi Jeff,
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Two entirely different and independent operations to the video, that's why it was specifically stated to uncheck in pref > Hardware Acceleration for decoding
Hence I was an idiot ! I realised that I had to disable in edit/preferences eventually !
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Produce times would be extremely similar for both H.264 and H.265 produce options at the same profile and common hardware use settings between PD15 and PD21, like CPU decoding and encoding. Less than 2% difference on my platform with your clip.
I'm fairly sure that my problems with hardware enhanced production have progresively grown since I bought this particular workstation. I cannot remember using the fuji clips with PD15, but certainly used the graphics card in PD17 without issue.
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SVRT (at speed no encoding) capability has been hit and miss for years and never really gets vetted of issues. Great when it does work without issue but that can be seldom with modern high end video recordings. Your Fuji video has an average video bitrate of 210 Mb/s, way outside the profile range of bitrate in PD21.
Yes, I note the fuji using circa 210 Mb/s... Good job I didn't wind it up to it's 400Mb/s capability !
I believe I'm correct in thinking I'd be wasting my time shooting in 10 bit as well.
At least it's working now.
Many thanks for your assistance.
Gerry
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Many thanks to 'Tomasc', 'Optodata', Jeff and Tony...
Success !
I had been an idiot, thinking that simply unchecking the speed enhancement in the 'Produce' page would solve the problem.
Going into the program preferences and switching off the hardware enhancement options there, worked 1st time.
I will say that to 'Produce' my originally required clip of 23 seconds took around 5x 'Real time', which is a tad slow, but workable.
(Ryzen 2700X @4GHz, 32 Gb RAM unused graphics card Nvidia GTX 1070)
One of the many reasons why I have been using PowerDirector for quite a while now (I think my 1st copy was version 5.0) was it's ability to produce videos at speed. (OK back then, I would hit 'Produce' then go and have my Dinner !)
When I 1st used this computer - It's a few years old now - I could use the Nvidia GTX 1070 to speed things up. This facility has become less and less usable, and is now completely defunct. I only bought the card to assist with video editing, I don't play games on this machine. I had given much thought to the graphics card I installed (Expensive at the time). I'm just glad I didn't opt for the GTX1080 !
I do have a standalone copy of PowerDirector 15, (I think my version of 17or18 was 'Destroyed' in my 1st update to 365).
I wonder if I tried V.15 out in 'Producing' how it would compare with the 'New and improved super-duper PowerDirector 365' ? !
This of course doesn't answer silly questions like...
Why can PowerDirector 'Produce' the same Fuji clip at 1920x1080 using hardware assistance in just a few seconds ?
Why can PowerDirector 'Produce' at speed in 4K from a GoPro but not a Fuji X-T3 ?
Many thanks again,
Gerry
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I can't replicate your issue yet when pref > Hardware Acceleration for decoding is unchecked, a must depending on hardware. I've used the camera source MaldivesClip_FromCamera.MOV and produced to default profiles in PD21 and PD20 of:
1) H.264, MP4, 3840x2160p (50mbps) in both 25fps and 50fps, CPU or GPU (AMD, Nvidia) encoding with no issue
2) H.265, MP4, 3840x2160p (37mbps) in both 25fps and 50fps, CPU or GPU (AMD, Nvidia) encoding with no issue
Maybe optodata or tomasc will try with their PD21 365 version as it's different than my PD21 perpetual key version.
I'm fairly certain you'll need the Apple QT or QT Lite installed to properly handle this clip.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Many thanks for checking.
Now I'm at a loss as I can't get 4K production from my copy...
I have the 365 version.
How do I get a copy of the 'Stand alone' version of the program as I think I'd prefer this ?
I never use all the other 'Add-on frippery' anyway.
In the past (Pre 365) I updated every other version or so, when something was added I thought may be useful.
Gerry
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About the best you can do is share a current clip that's causing the issue and see what other user's experience is with producing 4K. You probably would have better luck with that than CL Support route.
It's kind of uncommon in my experience that you can produce lower resolution but not higher.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
It's not a single clip that's now failing to produce, it's ALL my previously working clips !
In the interest of smaller files, I've uploaded three example files to 'Google drive' accessible with this link...
No great quality, but taken when in a sea plane...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ggyJbeq650cMAr4clTtFeWuyQjPXt-QR?usp=sharing
The straight from Camera MOV file is where I started... (MaldivesClip_FromCamera MOV file )
I placed this on the timeline and tried to 'Produce'.
The MaldivesClip_Produced_4K MP4 file is the sound only result I got from PowerDVD's attempt at h.265 4K Production...
A longer clip causes PowerDVD to just sit there a while before producing a 'Sound only' clip ? !
The MaldivesClip_Produced_HD MP4 file is a correctly produced HD movie file when I dropped the h.265 resolution to 1920x1080 !
Can anyone replicate this ? - Or find their latest version 365 produces the clip correctly ?
Thanks for looking and helping.
Gerry
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To my knowledge, the only way to install updates for the subscription product is to open the CL App Manager and click on the Update button for each app. If you haven't done that, then PD365 should be the same version it was when you last used it.
I'm fairly certain I did an update via the App Manager - I just didn't actually try producing any 4K video from the Fuji X-T3 before the other day when it failed...
PowerDirector WILL play the 'mov' video from the fuji X-T3 perfectly well.
It CAN produce h.265 HD video (1920x1080), so the program is reading the fuji mov video file correctly.
However, it CANNOT 'Produce' a video in 4k, Neither h.265 nor h.264 ???
It used to do this perfectly well, it's just an 'Update' that has stopped this from working.
It CAN produce a 4K video when starting with a GoPro file (Which is MP4 straight from the camera).
I'm struggling to justify paying for updates that actually stop me from using the program.
Gerry
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It's been a while since I played with PowerDirector, probably last April when I edited a holiday video.
I'm sure my version of PowerDirector 365 has 'Updated' since then.
One of my cameras is a Fuji X-T3 that creates video files in MOV format, 4K.
I just loaded in a clip of around 25 seconds and tried to produce it - no editing, just make a h.265 4K MP4 file...
When I hit 'Start', the program just sat there doing nothing...
So I changed settings and tried to produce a h.264 MP4 file in HD - 1920x1080.
No problem at all - PowerDirector raced through the re-render and the file worked perfectly.
I then went back to an old file from my camera - that I KNOW worked perfectly last April when I edited the holiday video.
Again I could produce an HD file without issue.
Once again, using h.265 4K produced nothing...
So I tried to produce using h.265 but having the resolution at 1920x1080 to see if it was h.265 causing the issue.
It produced a working video in a matter of seconds, so it's not the h.265 setting that's at fault.
I then decided to play with some GoPro footage.
The GoPro files are MP4 4K files, straight from the camera...
This time, PowerDirector was able to produce and render the 4K output without issue !
Nothing in my computer hardware has changed since last April when PowerDirector worked perfectly well producing 4K files from my Fuji camera.
I made myself a coffee as I pondered what was going wrong...
I just left the program not producing at 0%
I came back to see it had finished !
However, the file was 'Sound only' no picture...
The produced video appeared in the media list with a music symbol in it...
I've no idea why the program just decided to produce a sound only clip after a delay !
So I'm using the same camera, same computer... But my 'Updated' PowerDirector seems to have forgotten that it used to produce files from this camera perfectly well... (Better if I kept hardware acceleration switched off - another story)
Can anyone throw any light as to what's going wrong or how best to fix this ?
Gerry
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Hi Esseff,
I've played with the lens correction tool on clips from several GoPro cameras over the years.
Generally from the 'Fix/Enhance' menu.
You have the option of many profiles for GoPro.
I've found mixed results with them.
Some profiles seem to over compensate for vignetting and 'Blow out' any detail in the sky in the upper corners.
I played with profiles written for other cameras, and often found I liked the 'Rollei' (7S methinks) profile the best !
(I had read up somewhere that it was a close fit before the myriad of GoPro profiles were made available for download.)
So the advice I would offer would be to load your clip, then apply the lens correction profile you like the most - and don't be too fixed on them being for the 'Correct' GoPro model.
Try out a bunch of them - it only takes a couple of minutes to scroll through many options.
I'm sure you'll find a profile that works for you.
Gerry
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Hi Jeff, Tomasc,
I'm at a loss as to how it's now working, but I'll accept it !
When I first installed PD-18, I had no particular issues with X-T3 files (Except HLG with LUT applied - I'll re-visit that one day)
The problems had only started after an 'Update' !
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OK, So I was about to throw in the towel...
PD19 was not playing at all with my Fuji X-T3,
Files were h265, 10 bit, MOV format.
I had wasted several hours trying anything I could think of to no avail.
I couldn't get anything to 'Produce', the program would just freeze when 'Start' was hit.
I'd found another thread where these X-T3 files had caused an issue on later PD19-365 versions.
I had to get something produced... I remembered I had an old stand alone version of PD15.
This had not been violated by 'upgrades' !
I loaded in the short clips, hit 'Produce' and Bingo ! - All worked fine, I 'Produced' a shareable video.
Now, here's the weird bit...
I then wanted to demonstrate to someone how my updated version of PD19 wouldn't produce from X-T3 files,
I reloaded the identical project and X-T3 MOV files...
Hit 'Produce' and named to output file, hit 'Start' expecting the freeze...
No ! - This time PD19 produced perfectly !
Not only that, but I could also select 'Hardware acceleration' and produce a h265 4K version at twice real speed !
Had something unusual occurred ?
Had PD15 somehow left a dll file/code in a Cyberlink folder that was required ?
I can't believe it had simply 'Shamed' its 'Superior' sibling into action !
To this end, I shut-down the computer, left it off for a couple of minutes and then re-booted...
Loaded PD19 and 'Produced' again.
It worked !
I did have just a single glitch out of several renderings (Hardware acceleration failed), but just the once.
I have no idea as to how/why PD19 is now working ?
Any ideas ?
Addendum - Buoyed by this success, I re-visited a failure from some time ago when optodata/tomasc/JL_JL had been fantastic at getting to the root of the problem...
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/80734.page#332215
I re-loaded the original projects and files.
This time I was unable to re-produce the 'Judder' problems from 18 months ago...
The output files from PD19-365 were fine, even after selecting 'Hardware acceleration'
So for now at least, I have a working, useable version of PD19-365 !
So different from last week !
It couldn't have been caused by playing with PD15 could it ? !
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Thanks to all who answered. Although it seems like the issue has too many variables to be completely 'solved' (if I send the DVD out to friends, it may or may not play properly on their players), at least I now know there is nothing wrong with what I am doing. Thanks to all!
Instead of sending a 'DVD', why not just send an mp4 file ?
I know that removes Opening screens / Pretty titles / Chapter Links etc and it's just not as 'Nice'
But it may be more universally acceptable now with many TV's having USB facilities ?
If ever I send out mp4 files and I send a 4K h265 version, then I generally include a version in HD (1920 x 1080) h.264 as being compatable with more kit.
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Hi Greenie44,
The fact that a player doesn't like a 'Writable' disc is nothing new.
I've owned cd players that wouldn't play a written cd - (Often very expensive cd players !)
I've owned a dvd player that wouldn't play a recorded dvd, (But this one would play SACD's, not that I had any to play !)
It seems that you should check the manual of the player that won't play as JL_JL suggests,
you may find it doesn't play nicely with any 'Writable' discs, there's nothing special about them being produced from PD.
(Some may even differentiate between DVD -R and DVD -RW etc )
Honestly, I've found the more upmarket the player, the more likely it is to fail with writable media !
Though I concede this is largely anecdotal and from personal experience.
Gerry
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OK - Over the last 18 months or so, I've not shot any video and have had no need to edit anything...
Last weekend I went out with my camera, predominently shooting stills, but did shoot one small video clip.
I opened up PD (I Have 365). I then downloaded the latest version of the 'Application Manager', which then in turn asked me to update PD... So I downloaded and installed the latest version... (No surprise after 18 months or so)
All done, ready to trim up the video clip...
I use a Fuji X-T3 camera, it outputs its video in 'MOV' format.
You can choose a myriad of options, but I'm generaslly shooting 4K, 10Bit, Long GOP, 4:2:0 h.265 25fps...
Now, when I last edited a video, I simply put the MOV on the timeline, edited as required and 'Produced'.
All good.
This time, when I hit 'Start' on the produce page....
Nothing...
Nada...
PD just sat there looking at me, not 'producing' !
After playing around and swearing for an hour or so, I visited this forum and typed 'X-T3' into the search function.
This gave me a thread as below... Where optodata and JL_JL had been very helpful, but ultimately they confirmed that PD 365 didn't like the files produced by the X-T3 , it wouldn't 'Produce' them !!!!
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/82975.page#342115
Now I can catagorically state that back in November 2019 when I was editing my X-T3 files using the latest version of PD 365, it had absolutely no problems with my raw clips at all !
(As long as I didn't try to use a LUT on a HLG file !
Another story - https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/80256.page#330015 )
You can see that back when I was noticing that PD did like to 'Produce' from a HLG file off my X-T3 after a LUT was applied, I may have realised something else if PD hadn't been producing from any of my files !
They had been working perfectly well ! - And now they don't.
So - When I updated to the latest version of PD, It 'Forgot' how to produce MOV files from the X-T3 !
This may just be the last straw, I've been using PD for so many years, but I'm fed up with finding things I can no longer do...
Yes, I can convert my raw MOV files with handbrake before loading into PD, But I NEVER had to do this before,
why should I bother doing it now. I'm not changing my camera to suit PD 365... Cyberlink just decided to ruin the program for me (And any other X-T3, X-T4 owners) and they now charge me now for the privilege ! - At least a while back I could simply use an older version if I found a broken part - now I'm stuck with it.
Time to cancel my subscription methinks - unless someone knows that an update is almost here that will return the facility it used to have before I wasted money for Cyberlink to break it ?
Gerry
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Hi André,
Perhaps not the answer you were looking for... But I too have recently played with some old Hi8 tapes.
I too found myself having to ditch the capture using PD. (I gave it a good bash, on two machines, but gave up.)
Funnily enough, I too used some pre-historic Pinnacle software (Not quite as old as the tapes !) for the initial capture !
Once I had resigned myself to this work route, I found it very easy to just grab all the content in Pinnacle Studio.
Once grabbed, it was then easy to work with everything in PD to edit and produce the final video.
I know it's a workaround, and yes it may have been better to capture directly in PD.
But at least I thought I'd let you know that you're not alone !
You may take some comfort (Little, I know...) in the fact that you could still use your firewire connection.
When I specced up my 'Modern' 4K editing PC, I had neglected this input.
I had to resort to an old Hi8 to USB connection. (I'd also tried PD Capture on my old laptop via Firewire, no joy)
The tapes I had discovered in the attic were of my two sons when very much younger.
It was an eye opener to see how 'Poor' was the recording quality of my once 'Top end Hi8 camera' when compared to my kit today.
However, my boys watched the results on a 65inch 4K screen and didn't complain at all - they just enjoyed the show.
Perhaps it is more about content after all !
I didn't complain about the fact I couldn't get PD capturing old analogue video, after all, this was a rare use for me and I'd rather they concentrate on features for the future.
Gerry
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Hi 'iix23',
Just to agree with Tomasc.
I've used the workaround posted by 'Ynotfish' several times - it works really well.
However - I really think this should be addressed with future updates in PD 365...
I was amazed to discover it wasn't there when I first started to apply LUTs.
Gerry
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I can't remember if we're allowed to name competing video editors here. But, for the record, an editor that uses black magic to do its thing uses all 8 cores on my AMD-FX (at 100%) when rendering in software.
IIRC, that is the only editor I've tried that uses more than 4 cores (in the sense that they max out at 50% CPU utilization on my 8 core).
That's why I saved money and only bought a used i3-8100 for an alternatate box for video editing. Seemed like extra cores didn't matter for PD. (They wanted another $100 for an i5. Not worth it.)
We've talked about bottlenecks before here in the forum. Even with my new (used) Dell i3-8100 Win10, with CL15 on the RAM, which benchmarks in the top 75% of memory bandwidth, I still do not see a highly stressed system when producing simple vidoes. (My hard drives, even tho spinning, aren't the bottleneck either.)
I get the impressions there are wait states caused by latency in the code in software as far as PD goes. (I do see near 100% on the Intel UHD 630 tho. So that's good.)
I must add that my very old PC - i7 2nd generation was nowhere near as capable of editing 4K videos as my current Ryzen 2700X with PD...
Not even remotely close.
I use the Ryzen 2700X with a Nvidia 1070 8Gb Graphics card and 32Gb RAM...
I tried a Black Magic type software recently when playing with LUTs and 4K HLG files... MUCH slower rendering than with PD.
I think you could go well beyond an i5 before you see little return in how fast PD can be...
Gerry
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I can confirm that at least some MOV 10 bit files are supported...
My Fuji X-T3 produces 4K, h265, 10 bit, 400mbps MOV files and they import into PD18 no problem.
I say "No problem" but there is a caveats...
If I record using 4K, 10 bit, LongGOP using HLG, then there IS a problem !
If I subsequently apply a LUT to the footage, then PD18 'Produces' a black screen video with just sound - If I don't apply a LUT - then PD18 'Produces' the file correctly !
If I don't record using HLG, (Choosing any of the other recording options), then I CAN apply a LUT or any other colour correction without issue. (??? ! )
This is just something I've been avoiding, using the 'Eterna' or similar film simulation recording in camera.
I had no idea why this was happening and no information was forthcoming from any forum post - However... I note from looking at the 'Supported file formats' list as suggested by AshWilliams in this thread (I had to manually paste the end of the link)...
There is a note regarding HLG 10 bit MOV files that reads...
"PowerDirector now supports 10-bit HDR* video import. HDR 10-bit BT.2020 (HDR10 and HLG) is converted to SDR 8-bit BT.709 during import."
I wonder if this is where the issue occurs ?
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Is PowerDirector fully compatible with the 12 cores of Ryzen 3900x?
I presume you're actually asking if PD going to fully utilise all the available power of the 3900X - ie all the cores...
This is very doubtful - I have a lowly 2700X and it hardly breaks into a sweat.
( I don't know of an editor that will certainly use them all - I've tried a few, and none were as quick at 'Producing' as PD)
PD WILL use a graphics card - What do you have ?
PD will also probably NOT use all the RAM you have available - I have 32Gb and I don't think this is all used.
I generally have PD producing a video whilst I'm doing something else on the PC at the same time - I reckon that's where I can gain having a reasonably decent workstation.
Gerry
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Good news! I've heard back from tech support that they have confirmed the issue on their nVidia test system and have forwarded the issue to engineering for resolution.
They also said:
We further found that the judder condition occurred when producing the video clip in 1080P/25 frame rate, but not occurred when producing it in 4K/25 frame rate.
As workaround, if you would like to edit the video now, you may choose to export the video in 4K resolution using hardware encoding, or apply software encoding to export the project in 1080P. It could be the possible solution.
Many thanks optodata...
So they say they didn't see this judder effect at 4K ??
If you read my original post, I conceded that the 4K looked better... Or was it that the 'Judder' was faster ?
I'll re-investigate.
At least they're looking into this, which is good.
4K is where the hardware help is really needed - HD generally renders fairly quickly (Using my PC anyway.)
That said, the last clip from the latest batch, 14 minutes long, with lens corrections and a few underwater colour corrections...
The 'HD' render took OVER 4 HOURS ! - It was like going back in time to when I was rendering in windows 98.
I will have to cut far more next time.
Thanks once again for your help,
I await the next PD18 update with interest.
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You realize that every laptop or PC monitor and every tablet or phone in the world will render that video at 60p? And any HDTV is more than able to process the 60p too, since they are nothing more than huge screen tablets, running a version or another of Android-derived OS.
I don't understand why peope are still hang up on shooting in 50Hz standard. Unless you're technical backwards like BBC, you should use 60Hz today. Especially on fast moving subjects like the one above.
...And if you're wanting to have a file that can be displayed on the old equipment that grannie likes in her front room ??
I wholeheartedly agree that the BBC is falling behind in its broadcasting of HD content to several areas of the UK - Though I am in a position to actually experience the frustration !
So the BBC is technically backwards, they still produce some decent looking TV though ('Peaky Blinders' would be a visual example.)
Just this Sunday, I almost fell foul of the sin of assuming "Everything is compatible" When I went to the wife's parents and tried to play some 4K USB content on their 60 inch Samsung... It didn't handle h265 ! - Luckily I had some h264 HD versions with me...
I suppose it's easy to say we should all finally change to 60fps, since the electronics and standards are independent of mains frequency. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that years of having to put up with NTSC makes the USA able to shout "Now, you should use our standard !"
I actually notice very little between 60 and 50 fps on my home TVs, if indeed anything.
(As long as I keep everything the same throughout production.)
Though, just don't get me started on having people tell me that 24fps is more 'Cinematic' !
Argh !
I'm in the UK and have recently decided that all my future projects will be shot at 50fps rather than my former 'Mostly 25fps' stance. I may well double this for action shots. This move has just followed the price of memory and the fact that I can carry multiple spare batteries / power-packs very easily. The argument for 25fps is fading away as its cost benefit declines.
Why multiples of 25 and not 30 ? ? ?
- First line of the comment... Let's keep grannie happy ! - If I was living in the USA I'd run at 60fps without hesitation.
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