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Hi 'iix23',
Just to agree with Tomasc.
I've used the workaround posted by 'Ynotfish' several times - it works really well.
However - I really think this should be addressed with future updates in PD 365...
I was amazed to discover it wasn't there when I first started to apply LUTs.
Gerry
Quote I can't remember if we're allowed to name competing video editors here. But, for the record, an editor that uses black magic to do its thing uses all 8 cores on my AMD-FX (at 100%) when rendering in software.

IIRC, that is the only editor I've tried that uses more than 4 cores (in the sense that they max out at 50% CPU utilization on my 8 core).

That's why I saved money and only bought a used i3-8100 for an alternatate box for video editing. Seemed like extra cores didn't matter for PD. (They wanted another $100 for an i5. Not worth it.)

We've talked about bottlenecks before here in the forum. Even with my new (used) Dell i3-8100 Win10, with CL15 on the RAM, which benchmarks in the top 75% of memory bandwidth, I still do not see a highly stressed system when producing simple vidoes. (My hard drives, even tho spinning, aren't the bottleneck either.)

I get the impressions there are wait states caused by latency in the code in software as far as PD goes. (I do see near 100% on the Intel UHD 630 tho. So that's good.)


I must add that my very old PC - i7 2nd generation was nowhere near as capable of editing 4K videos as my current Ryzen 2700X with PD...
Not even remotely close.
I use the Ryzen 2700X with a Nvidia 1070 8Gb Graphics card and 32Gb RAM...
I tried a Black Magic type software recently when playing with LUTs and 4K HLG files... MUCH slower rendering than with PD.
I think you could go well beyond an i5 before you see little return in how fast PD can be...
Gerry
I can confirm that at least some MOV 10 bit files are supported...

My Fuji X-T3 produces 4K, h265, 10 bit, 400mbps MOV files and they import into PD18 no problem.

I say "No problem" but there is a caveats...

If I record using 4K, 10 bit, LongGOP using HLG, then there IS a problem !

If I subsequently apply a LUT to the footage, then PD18 'Produces' a black screen video with just sound - If I don't apply a LUT - then PD18 'Produces' the file correctly !
If I don't record using HLG, (Choosing any of the other recording options), then I CAN apply a LUT or any other colour correction without issue. (??? ! )

This is just something I've been avoiding, using the 'Eterna' or similar film simulation recording in camera.

I had no idea why this was happening and no information was forthcoming from any forum post - However... I note from looking at the 'Supported file formats' list as suggested by AshWilliams in this thread (I had to manually paste the end of the link)...

There is a note regarding HLG 10 bit MOV files that reads...

"PowerDirector now supports 10-bit HDR* video import. HDR 10-bit BT.2020 (HDR10 and HLG) is converted to SDR 8-bit BT.709 during import."

I wonder if this is where the issue occurs ?
Quote Is PowerDirector fully compatible with the 12 cores of Ryzen 3900x?


I presume you're actually asking if PD going to fully utilise all the available power of the 3900X - ie all the cores...

This is very doubtful - I have a lowly 2700X and it hardly breaks into a sweat.
( I don't know of an editor that will certainly use them all - I've tried a few, and none were as quick at 'Producing' as PD)

PD WILL use a graphics card - What do you have ?

PD will also probably NOT use all the RAM you have available - I have 32Gb and I don't think this is all used.

I generally have PD producing a video whilst I'm doing something else on the PC at the same time - I reckon that's where I can gain having a reasonably decent workstation.

Gerry
Quote Good news! I've heard back from tech support that they have confirmed the issue on their nVidia test system and have forwarded the issue to engineering for resolution.

They also said:

We further found that the judder condition occurred when producing the video clip in 1080P/25 frame rate, but not occurred when producing it in 4K/25 frame rate.

As workaround, if you would like to edit the video now, you may choose to export the video in 4K resolution using hardware encoding, or apply software encoding to export the project in 1080P. It could be the possible solution.


Many thanks optodata...

So they say they didn't see this judder effect at 4K ??

If you read my original post, I conceded that the 4K looked better... Or was it that the 'Judder' was faster ?
I'll re-investigate.

At least they're looking into this, which is good.

4K is where the hardware help is really needed - HD generally renders fairly quickly (Using my PC anyway.)

That said, the last clip from the latest batch, 14 minutes long, with lens corrections and a few underwater colour corrections...
The 'HD' render took OVER 4 HOURS ! - It was like going back in time to when I was rendering in windows 98.
I will have to cut far more next time.

Thanks once again for your help,

I await the next PD18 update with interest.
Quote

You realize that every laptop or PC monitor and every tablet or phone in the world will render that video at 60p? And any HDTV is more than able to process the 60p too, since they are nothing more than huge screen tablets, running a version or another of Android-derived OS.

I don't understand why peope are still hang up on shooting in 50Hz standard. Unless you're technical backwards like BBC, you should use 60Hz today. Especially on fast moving subjects like the one above.


...And if you're wanting to have a file that can be displayed on the old equipment that grannie likes in her front room ??

I wholeheartedly agree that the BBC is falling behind in its broadcasting of HD content to several areas of the UK - Though I am in a position to actually experience the frustration !

So the BBC is technically backwards, they still produce some decent looking TV though ('Peaky Blinders' would be a visual example.)

Just this Sunday, I almost fell foul of the sin of assuming "Everything is compatible" When I went to the wife's parents and tried to play some 4K USB content on their 60 inch Samsung... It didn't handle h265 ! - Luckily I had some h264 HD versions with me...

I suppose it's easy to say we should all finally change to 60fps, since the electronics and standards are independent of mains frequency. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that years of having to put up with NTSC makes the USA able to shout "Now, you should use our standard !"

I actually notice very little between 60 and 50 fps on my home TVs, if indeed anything.
(As long as I keep everything the same throughout production.)

Though, just don't get me started on having people tell me that 24fps is more 'Cinematic' !
Argh !

I'm in the UK and have recently decided that all my future projects will be shot at 50fps rather than my former 'Mostly 25fps' stance. I may well double this for action shots. This move has just followed the price of memory and the fact that I can carry multiple spare batteries / power-packs very easily. The argument for 25fps is fading away as its cost benefit declines.

Why multiples of 25 and not 30 ? ? ?
- First line of the comment... Let's keep grannie happy ! - If I was living in the USA I'd run at 60fps without hesitation.
Hi,

I would throw in a word of caution on graphics cards at the moment...

I have a desktop PC, so the Laptop problem faced by Alexba doesn't apply (Very well documented elsewhere).
I have a Ryzen 2700X, over-clocked to 4GHz and water-cooled.
I run windows and all programs from a fast SSD - Just makes the PC generally quicker to boot and work with.
I have a 'Working files' drive - also SSD - Just to keep my working files away from the main archive drive. (Not really needed).
I tend to write rendered files directly to a 'Spinny disc based' large hard drive.
As SoNic67 advises, there's no problem with writing to a modern hard drive - they're capable of writing faster than the files will be rendered. They slow nothing down.
I have 32 Gb RAM, though I reckon I'd see no real-world problems if I only had 16Gb - even if running PD in the background, letting it render as I work on other stuff - which I tend to do.

One problem that's just popped up - documented in another post and currently under investigation.

I have a Nvidia Geforce GTX 1070 8Gb graphics card. (I think mine is an ASUS, but I'm going back a couple of years since built).

This runs like the clappers in PD18, it is correctly 'Optimised' in the preferences/Hardware acceleration window.

However - I'm noticing some glitches with regard to smooth movement when utilising the power of the card. Switching it off and rendering far slower is giving me better finished videos...
I'm hopeful that there will be an update soon that will fix this (Very common card) as just now, I couldn't recommend such an expensive card for use with PD-18.

Gerry
Many thanks for your inputs.

I did indeed re-visit the previous few projects and re-rendered with the 'FVRT' box un-checked.
All produced videos with a marked improvement.

I hadn't even picked up on the audio change from the helicopter clip - after all, the noise of a 'Robinson R44' is hardly one for the discerning audiophile !


There was a 'Video' composed from the stills taken on the trip. I had added transitions and a sound track.
The only actual 'Movement' was the transitions themselves and there was requirement for neither lens correction nor colour enhancement as all this had been taken care of with the original photos.
I confirm I rendered this one in high speed - and all looked fine with the result.

The final project was actually 14 minutes long. There were lens corrections (GoPro) and some clips had LUTs applied (Shot under-water). I confess that I used high speed rendering for the HD version. (I don't personally use these ! ), but the 4K h265 version was rendered by the cpu alone. This took an age ! - I left it running when I went to bed.
Checking the result this morning I was pleased as to how it had turned out.

I can confirm that the judder error was independent of the use of the GoPro Hero 6. I have video recorded with my Fuji X-T3.
This camera alows a myriad of choices for the recording format, the clips were Long GOP, 4K, 25fps, 200mbps, 4:2:0 10 bit.
These clips behave in an identical way with regard to exhibiting 'Judder' when the Nvidia graphics are used to speed things up.

Over to CyberLink to explain why PD18 seems to not like playing and sharing its Fast rendering toys with the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 graphics card. It's pretty much a standard choice ?

Gerry
And so I have a solution...

All I had to do was simply 'Un-tick' the "Fast video rendering technology" check box...
Bottom left on the 'Produce' window.

I had earlier tried playing with the settings in the "Edit/Preferences" area to no avail. ( ! ? ! )

The take-off clip rendered in 24 seconds on my machine - still quicker than PD15 (26 seconds), but nearly 5 times slower than when using it (5 seconds).

The 'Produced' clip exhibited no judder in the movement !

File size was 67.2Mb against the faster rendering's 66.1Mb.

To correct my earlier projects, all I have to do is re-open them (I still have the pds files) and re-render.
OK, they'll be slower, but the longest is only 7 minutes...

Now this DOES still pose a question for the CyberLink team in as much that it means the "Fast video rendering Technology" is effectively useless on my machine with the Nvidia 1070 8Gb graphics card. This glitch seems to have only been introduced with PD18.

I note that I don't play games on this PC, the graphics card was chosen over offerings from AMD as it was better with PowerDirector when I purchased it a couple of years ago. I cannot use it with the program for the time being.
Please fix this CyberLink, as it wasn't a cheap component in the build !

Many thanks once again to Tomasc and optodata.

Gerry
Ye gods !

I am amazed, gob-smacked and totally impressed by the work and analysis undertaken by both tomasc and optodata in the pursuit of improving PD-18...

Both of you have my most heart-felt and sincerest thanks for the generosity of your time.

If either of you would like to raise this issue with CyberLink, then I'd be most grateful.

You are both avid contributors to this forum with vastly more experience than I.
(I do read far more than I post and recognise your previous inputs)

It would seem that I should pursue the route of removing the Nvidia's speed enhancement and see what I can 'Produce' without it.
The speed reduction may not fall that far behind PD-15 anyway.

I will have a play and advise as to what I discover on my machine.

I'm still shocked that you could actually diagnose the 4th/5th frame repeat so quickly !

Gerry
Quote It would really help to have more details, such as screenshots or screen recordings showing the problem. Better yet, actual copies of the source and produced clips, and even the actual project (if you're comfortable sharing them).

You can use Pack Project Materials... from PD's File menu and send everything to a cloud folder (Google Drive, OneDrive, etc.) and then paste the link to it here. That way, other people can try producing your exact project and see if the issues show up on other systems or if it might just be an issue with your setup.

It would also help to follow the steps listed in the Read Me Before Posting sticky thread so we can see what kind of shape your computer is in. The more info and specifics you can provide, the more likely it is that your fellow forum users be able to figure out what's going on.


Hi optodata,

Many thanks for the reply.

To illustrate the problem, I am currently uploading some files to google cloud... Then I'll find out how to share them !

I have uploaded the raw clip taken via the GoPro Hero 6 Black - in 4K. Whilst short, it's still quite a large file at 658Mb

I have uploaded two rendered clips... One from PD15 and the other from PD18.
I have uploaded pds files - One from each program...

The GoPro clip was added to the time-line.
It was trimmed at the start and finish to the same length - around 36 seconds.
A lens correction was added - GoPro Hero 6 superview. (From downloaded library of such profiles)

The two rendered clips were both produced as h264 - 1920x1080 - 25fps - mpg files.
PD 15 version = 67.4Mb, PD 18 version = 66.1Mb (No great difference here)

Hardware acceleration was allowed with both programs.

Here's a notable feature.
My copy of PD15 took 26 seconds to render the clip.
My copy of PD18 took a mere 5 seconds ! (PD18 seems to recognise all hardware correctly and 'Optimise' quite well !)

My PC runs Win 10.
Ryzen 2700X, over-clocked to 4GHz, water-cooled.
Nvidia 1070 Graphics card. 8Gb
32 Gb RAM
Project files on SSD, Win 10 and program files run on alternative SSD, I tend to write my renders to a spinny disc archive drive...

Link to all files...
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AafXncyJyCAOptTcBrIKYtrhkgk4Sg_q?usp=sharing

Now whilst I applaud the awsome speed of the render from PD18 - the clip doesn't look that good - Not to me anyway !

Video shot from the back of a tiny helicopter by my better half - it's not BBC quality, but this isn't her day job !

Thanks for looking.

Gerry
Hi Brett,
Whilst all comments regarding frame rates etc are valid...
I've just noted some awfull choppy rendering of pans on video clips that were perfectly smooth on the raw files from the camera...
And I'm 'Producing' at the exactly the same frame rate as the original recording.
Worse still - I've just rendered the exact same clips using PD-15 instead of PD-18 - and guess what ?
The PD-15 versions are rendered perfectly smoothly...
Something is going on here !
Gerry
Hi,

I've just been playing with a short video shot with a GoPro Hero 6.
The camera was facing out of the side window of a small helicopter...

I cut a 35 minute flight down to 3 minutes.

Files from the GoPro all mpeg PAL 4K 25fps
(I'm in the UK, and produce videos for old kit as well as new !)

Now, all looked great in the preview window - all smooth.
I 'Produced' into HD using h264. - again 25 fps...

However, upon watching the video, I noticed that the scene during take-off definitely has some issues. It seems to 'Jerk' the movement several times a second - as though movement was in steps.
Not massive, but noticeable and I wasn't happy...

I tried again with lens correction removed. - Same story.

I noticed that the video played fine in both timeline viewer and on the 'Produce' windows player...

Things to try...

I 'Produced' the same clip in h265 4K 25fps.
Now to my eyes at least, this was slightly better ! - Or was it a slightly faster 'Stepping' that was less annoying ? !

So now I turned off any hardware acceleration and tried again.
This time, the video produced far slower (No surprise, but now HD took much longer than 'Accelerated' 4K rendering).
I noted that whilst the HD versions with either lens correction applied or not had both been 324Mb in size, the resultant video was now 336Mb... (Hardware acceleration off produced a larger produced file size)
However, whilst marginally better, the 'Step movement' was still there ! - Seen as the view from the helicopter panned across the airport buildings.

I tried several viewers, not just PowerDVD to see if this was an issue - but it was there all the time.
The only viewer playing smoothly was from within PowerDirector 18 itself !

Yes, I checked... When I look at the file shot directly from the GoPro using PowerDVD, then everything is smooth as it should be, it is the 'Producing' that is causing the issue.

Playing around, I switched hardware acceleration back on and this time 'Produced' into mpeg2 (1920x1080 - still 25fps).
Now surprisingly, the 'Step movement' had gone !! - The video movement looked far better...
But naturally the file size was now much larger at 544Mb.

Now for the REALLY ANNOYING part...

I have a stand-alone version of PD-15 on my computer.
I could not import the pds file from PD-18 as not compatible, but I just loaded the take-off clip and 'Produced' it.
h264, 1920 x 1080 , 25fps exactly as before...

BINGO ! - Smooth video with no 'Step-movement' at all...

Anyone any idea as to what's going on ?

I had seen all the negative forum comments regarding PD-18, though not experienced any before today...
It would seem that PD-15 works better with my GoPro Hero 6 Black.

Why am I paying a subscription for an inferior product ?

I'm now going to have to trim all the the 35 minutes down to 3 mins once again this time in PD-15 to produce a video.
I've lost confidence in PD-18 for future work.
- I suppose I'm lucky that this is only 35 minutes of footage to work through...

But as I reached this point in writing the post...
I've just re-visited my previous projects from PD-18 to see what they look like - There are panning errors here as well - just that the helicopter pan highlighted the problem... The previous 'Hand-held' pans also have the same problem - Just that I'd thought them to be 'Operator error'. (The raw camera files are perfectly smooth whilst panning, the produced files judder whilst panning - I was better with the camera than I thought)

I'm 'Mightily Miffed ! ' - Thanks CyberLink - I've hours of work to re-do with an old program that you haven't 'Improved' !
Quote

Yes, This is with the Win10-supplied drivers. This is my first tryout of any capture device, and I'll see what happens when I load the supplied drivers. Thanks very much for the detailed feedback!


I've tried several settings to get PD to see my capture device directly, but all to no avail...
(Hi8 camera using the 'S' socket, audio via phonos )

Incidentally, I've tried several 'Modern' editing software packages (I installed quite a few to play with them)
The ONLY one that would see the USB video grabber instantly was 'Corel VideoStudio Pro 2019'
Now this is a fairly rubbishy editor compared with PD - It can't handle 10 bit files and is limited as to how it captures the video from the USB device (Seems to be in mpeg-2, ) - But it does see it and grab video...

If I could get PD to perform this task, I'd be a happy man !

Gerry
Quote

Barry, I'm going to upend your apple cart, because I think there's a way to do pretty much everything you want inside PD. All of the extra steps you've been doing these past years have been because PD can't do what you want with your capture hardware, not because PD can't do it all.

As I wrote in this post, I bought a cheap capture device, and it works natively in PD18. It captures to 640x480 or 1024x768 4:2:2 lossless progressive AVI (YUY2 codec), and also to 720x480 4:2:0 H.264. The only downside is no 720x480 AVI.

Right there, in one step, this device has eliminated your need to capture using VDub and then do de-interlacing in Hybrid. You can capture in PD and can immediately get to work on it without any additional preparation. It's that simple

Here's a OneDrive folder with the 2 sample clips, made from a commercial VHS tape with composite video. I'd like to know how well the capture quality compares with what you're used to seeing.

I also produced both to 640x480 30p to see how PD downscaled the 1024x768 AVI clip. Take a look at everything and let me know what you think!


Hi, Optodata,

I used to use a device looking identical to the one you posted, but no mater how I tried, I couldn't get it to work in Windows 10 64bit... I searched everywhere for drivers, but ultimately gave up and bought another that claimed to come with windows 10 drivers and had positive reviews saying as much...

I bought it - cost a whole £19 here in the UK - And BINGO ! - it works...

However, I am most intrigued as to how to get it working within PD-365...

I get as far as a window "Initialising analogue device" - Then nothing but flashing black/white bars in the window...
Going up/down the 'Channels' does nothing.

I tried this in both PD-365 and a standalone PD15 I have installed...
Nada on both.

Other far older / cheaper / rubbishy editors can see the Hi8 capture device...
And I'm then going through the same route as Barry

Info on direct capture would really help shorten my work flow through grabbing these clips.

Gerry
Cheers Barry,
Great advice as ever.
I've 'Edited' for years, but very rarely produced a dvd from my videos. (Methinks never from a 4:3 file !)
Gerry
Hi SoNic67 - Naturally, I've only ever captured Hi8 with the use of high quality 'S' cables. I still have these, and they appear to be working far better than the player !

As for PAL, I had always believed that it had been developed later than NTSC and was a little superior as a broadcast standard (Higher resolution) - with SECAM being almost the same. (SECAM had never become a dvd standard though)...
All long since resigned to history as we've entered the digital domain. That is of course until idiots like me try to dig up old tapes and drag them (Or perhaps more correctly, the memories they contain) into this century.

Just a slight extra I'm looking at - I know it must have been discussed at great length on these pages somewhere - but is there a difinitive 'Best Way' of getting the 4:3 image and placing it in the middle of a 16:9 image frame, such that when a 16:9 dvd is produced, you have the 4:3 signal in the middle of picture, seen as well produced as possible ?
I don't normally produce dvd's. When I play a 4:3 file on my TV it just bangs it down the middle exactly as it should.
Perhaps a link to the best forum posting that answered this... ?
Has anyone played successfully with replacing 'Black' as the border ?
(I was thinking about some form of shadings sympathetic to the pallet of the playing 4:3 video).
Or is this a practice to be avoided?

Gerry
Quote With all due respect, Barry, we're capturing video from 8mm analog. That's not even standard 720x480 resolution. (It's more like 400x300 px.) I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble of capturing lossless AVI.


With all due respect, Steven, I'm not capturing from 'Standard' 8mm analogue, but Hi8mm... 'Standard' 8mm was probably lower than 400 x 300 - Hi8 was around 400 horizontal. I used to capture it using 640 x 480 avi.

Quote An MP4 will give him resolution and picture quality that's at least as good as the original with a much more manageable and easily editable file.


I've yet to see copy of anything that was "at least as good as the original" ? !

I reckon I'll take your advice Barry, I'll investigate Virtualdub - Now is that the same as Virtualdub2 ??
I'm running the latest Windows 10. I have a USB capture dongle that has the correct drivers and runs correctly, so as long as the software can play nicely with it, I'll be good to go.

I don't have a 'Digital 8' Camera - Never had one of those - Back in the day, one of my ancient PC's did have a firewire socket that I used when capturing from my DV camera. I loved controlling the camera from within the software. I no longer have a firewire socket.
These tapes hark back to a time before then.
Early 1990's - in the EU, there was indeed a levy of circa £50 on any equipment capable of recording a video signal - Hence in the UK we had cameras with neither a 'video-in' facility, nor even 'line-audio-in' facility.
Later on... Some 'Digital 8' cameras were capable of playing Hi8 tapes, though by no means anything like as many as claim this ability on the UK Ebay ! (Which is all of them - they're often wrong !) The DCR-TRV480 was indeed camera capable of this feat, (Even in the UK).

In fact, I'm about to plunge into the Ebay pool looking for a replacement player for these tapes.
My 1991 Hi8mm player is audibly failing and now fails to recognise a tape has been inserted unless 'Tapped heavily'... It has twice now ejected tapes with a couple of feet of tape being 'Out of the cassette'... It's had it.
Looks like the cheapest option is an old Hi8 camera from an posting that looks the most honest ! The old failed player had facilities and capabilities no longer required in today's PC editing world.
Seems they're around £70 - we'll see.

Gerry
Quote I do analog captures all the time, via USB dongle. Maybe the fact it’s digital when it gets to PD is what you mean.
Regarding lack of quality...some of it is perception, we are quite spoilt with hidef, super hidef, superduper hi...etc, some of it is capturing in compressed codecs, then compressing again if you “fix” it. S-video connection for analog is highly recommended.


Hi Barry,

And as if by some weird twist of fate....

I've just been tasked with turning a load of old Hi8 tapes into 'Modern' digital files... !

I loaded my old dongle, to find that it won't work with Windows 10. I spent too many hours searching for correct drivers before realising that buying a new one for £20 would be the better option.
I bought a new dongle and heh presto it works really well !

Now it came with some awful ancient software to 'Grab' the video - But it could only produce some nasty codec mpg very lossy looking images. I've played around with alternatives and started getting better results.

However - this is your thing... Could I ask what software is YOUR choice for grabbing Hi8 ??

I still have PD15 installed as a stand alone, so avi files should not be an issue.

Once 'Edited' I will then produce a dvd from the clips. (Requested)

Many thanks,

Gerry
Quote As a side note, there is no more PAL or NTSC. Those were analog only standards, in UK you did away with that in 2012.
BBC is run by a bunch of older technical guys. At this point they could throw anything on the air, 24 ,50 or 60 FPS, the DVB-T2 digital systems can display all, it's just like a computer video stream - MPEG4. Your computer screen runs at 60 Hz, the phone screen dis 60Hz, why keep the jerkiness resulted at run time from conversion? Even your TV can do 60Hz!


All true. - Though both my monitor and TV can do more than 60Hz if required.
I dare say I could record and produce at higher fps - Though some people do have older stuff they want to play back on.
My own TV is 65 inch, 4K and can play just about any format I throw at it - (Though it looks better in 'Native' 4K).
I play my home videos on it via a usb hard drive.

I always produce alternative 'HD' versions of all my clips as they're more universally acceptable to friends/family.
Hell, I've been known to resort to still burning dvd's for some of my family ! - Curiously they've never asked for a blu-ray... I have a burner capable of producing them that I've never used for this purpose.

I have been playing with some ancient 'Analogue' stuff this very week though. - Hi8 videos shot in the early 1990's in PAL at 25fps.

I've been transfering them into loss-less avi files. I hear the latest PD-365 doesn't play nicely with these - but luckily still have a 'Stand alone' version of PD15 installed on my computer.

As I write I'm scouring Ebay for a working Hi8 player as mine is playing up - (Audibly suffering and glitching all too often)
I can't risk it chewing up another tape ! - Current machine is my 'Original' circa 1991, I think it's objecting to having been in the loft for too many years. Now, do I get another old Sony 'Deck' player, or just get an old camcorder - these are very much choices I'm debating - at least I have no requirements for jog shuttle controls etc any more - I'm just transfering the tapes and using the PC for editing. Hence my brain is currently still in PAL mode !

Gerry
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