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Hi Tina,
I have not heard back, so I am a bit disapointed in the lack of response. I am not sure if asking them if they got them would make issues worse or they are already now so bad it will not hurt. Definitely touchy people to deal with. I'll check in with them next week.
My DVDs are -R and PD11 says MPEG-2 in setting up for the burn. I use a burn rate of 4.0 or less.
I agree with your approach, as long as the source clips are 60i and PD11 set to NTSC. Throw some 24p in there and I think you will have to produce to a NTSC 60i file first to burn the DVDs from.
That note above about using the Smart Fit feature is what got me going down a rabbit path, and I never would have had a forced education process. Cyberlink said they will add it to their fix list.
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Hi Rob,
That is true. So with the 3 DVDs I just sent in, they are on two different disc types. DVD-R, Taiyo Yuden Premium and Memorex. The Memorex were the same ones that the TV station loaded fine a few months ago.
I expect to hear something Monday or Tuesday next week.
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DUH… I finally used Media Info to go back and look at the TV Station failed DVDs. And there are lots of differences from those above. Using the D-1 file that was made from a produced PD11 file (probalby 60p) and burned with Nero 12.
First the file sequence is different:
TS.IFO
TS.BUP
-0.IFO
-1.VOB
-2.VOB
-3.VOB
-4.VOB
-0.BUP
So compared to above, TS.VOB is missing. The overall sequence is similar to CDBurnerXP. I did read that TS.VOB is optional in the DVD standard, but my concern is the TV Station, where at present I am not allowed to talk to the technical person/engineer, or if that person knows how to help anyway.
Other differences include a file size of 8.00 KiB versus 12.00 KiB
No audio data in the TS.IFO and TS.BUP file.
In the -0.IFO file:
-The file size is 48 KiB vs 42.KiB
-The duration is the same of 1 h 6min
-The overall bit rate is 98 bps vs 86 bps (could this be the difference between P and I?)
So maybe this is why they would not load at the TV Station.
And if all the above is relevant, I suspect that all these variants I am sending to the TV station will load just fine.
I do seem to remember that TV stations do not use retail DVD players but load them up into a player for TV broadcasting, and that requires interlaced encoding only.
DUH #2... I had time to make another DVD similar to the ones that worked at the TV Station several months ago, and the file structure is like ImgBurn and Pin12 above, as it was made with Pinnacle 12 straight from the VIXIA HF10 camcorder set at 60i frame rate mode.
I will update when I hear back from the TV Station.
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I find this most amazing. Using Media Info I compared D-1 burned with Pinnacle 12, PD11, ImgBurn and CDBurnerXP.
What I found was that the data in each BUP, IFO and VOB was the same. The only difference is the order of the files.
CDBurnerXP and PD11
TS.IFO
TS.VOB
TS.BUP
-0.IFO
-1.VOB
-2.VOB
-3.VOB
-4.VOB
-0.BPU
Pin12 and ImgBurn
TS.BUP
TS.IFO
TS.VOB
-0.BUP
-0.IFO
-1.VOB
-2.VOB
-3.VOB
So the sequence of files in Pin12 and ImgBurn are exactly the same, while they are diffirent in CDBurnerXP.
Again all the data in each file, such as -0.BUP, was the same in all three burned DVDs, but the location of that -0.BUP was different on the DVD disc as reported by Media Info.
So my solution, since I have D-1, D-2 and D-3 to send to the station is to label them differently and send one of each. D-1 is the CDBurnerXP and D-2 is the ImgBurn, and both were made from the Pin12 file burn made from the PD11 60i 24Mbps prodiced file, and D-3 is the Pin12 burned DVD made directly from the 60i 24Mbps PD11 produced file.
While I did not go back and make a PD11 without intro menu, the sequence of files in the burned D-1 DVD is the same as in the CDBurnerXP. and not the ImgBurn or Pinnacle 12. Based on the fact that the Pin12 did work at the station several months ago, if sequence drives the issue, then the ImgBurn and Pin12 DVDs should load OK for them.
The best I can figure, and I did not keep good notes, is that in the last submission, due to the pixilation issue on D-2 and D-3, I made them all from PD11 produced files and probably used 60p 28Mbps as the PD11 produced files, thinking more data was better for a later use video file. Yes, I did not pay a lot of attention to i and p, like I do now.
Is it possible for a 60p file to retain that format when made to a DVD? If so that explains the TV station issue as they run on 60i.
Is there a way to tell if the DVD is in i or p format after it is burned?
What is amazing is that in all my DVD players, including the cheap one from Walmart, play all these DVDs. Those made from 60i and 60p PD11 produced video files.
So even though my finiky Toshiba TV with the built in DVD player is 10 years old, they appaerently were accomodating any "p" in a DVD back then.
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Here is the Media Info sheet on a video file for D-1, where it was produced in AVC 1920x1080/60i (24Mbps), taken to Pinacle 12 and produced as a DVD.
I used Pinacle 12 as it made the previous DVDs that the station could read.
Does anyone see any issues on this sheet?
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I guess so, if they can take an existing DVD and tell you what format, 60i or 60p, etc is on the disk.
I will check them out.
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Do you know any way I can look at a burned DVD and find out all the details of the contents?
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I would produce a MPEG2 HQ video from the Edited HD video. The produced video file is .MPG.
Then put that produced MPEG2 video on the timeline, goto Create Disk (No Menu) and burn a Folder, depending on the length of the video you can use 2D DVD 4.7 GB or 8.5 GB as your Disk profile.
From the Disk Folder, use ImgBurn or CD Burner XP to burn the actual DVD Video disk.
I guess I missed that "make a MPEG2" part. What format would you use to make the file to brun the final from?
HQ 720-480/60i (8Mbps) or 1280x720/30p (20Mbps)?
Now I see. On the PD11 Edit page I have it set as 4:3, and this gives me certain options in the Produce section, and the two options I mention above.. If I have it set on 16:9, I get different options on what file types I can produce to.
So I am now confused. My clips are shot in HD, 16:9, does it make a difference for an old DVD player if it is not 4:3? I seem to remember all the debates years ago on DVDs playing on TVs. Back then, normal and wide screen all played anyway, it just mattered if the screen had black bands on the top and bottom or not.
I guess I could send in 4:3 and tell them widescreen is available, if they want it. Does this sound reasonable?
So I guess question is: for 4:3 and for 16:9 what formats do I produce to?
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Hi Carl,
I got a $24.85 DVD player, Funai brand, from Walmart.
All my DVDs work in it, no matter how I made them. Even the ones that the TV station said they could not open.
Originally I had made dups of the ones I sent the station, so the station got dups not origionals. But the masters and the dups work fine in the little cheapo player. My dup machine does 11 at once so I ran 4 dups off the master so I would have some to test for any problems. I checked them all in my old DVD player before senting them in, and they worked fine, as did all the sibling dups.
I even went back and played them all again in my 10 year old DVD player that is more finicky than any others in my house. Again, they all worked fine.
There is not the option that somehow I sent the station a PAL format.
So I am back to shooting in the blind as I cannot replicate, with any DVD player I have, the TV station experience.
What I will do is follow your flow path and burn the DVDs from the freeware.
While I did make the TS files with the folder burn, I did not get a chance to burn any with your recommended freeware (I hope they work with Windows ![]() . Will tackle that tomorrow AM.
Any other ideas?
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![]() Thanks Carl, I will work on it. - off to Walmart
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Hi Carl,
Thank you for the reply.
Please confirm the work flow.
My clips are already in NTSC 30fps, and that is set in the PD11 preferences also.
Right now the clips are HD, so do I convert to 4:3 for the burn to folder?
Then burn DVD only to a folder in PD11.
Then take the TS file and burn that to a DVD using one of the software you suggest.
Did I get that right?
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Hi Tony,
What I meant was how do I make high res video files in PD11 once I have the clips there? Max I found was 28Mbps.
That is what we shot them at, ALL-1, and yes we now use 32, 64 and 128G cards.
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![]()
Wow, love it.
Where or how do you make a 90Mbps video?
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I recently made 3 DVDs to send to a TV station in Philadelphia PA, near where I live.
They said they could not open any of them.
They were made as described in this recent post: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/29336.page#160670 which also has all the technical detail.
I made them with no menu so the DVD is supposed to start when loaded. They worked fine in my brand new DVD player and my 10 year old DVD player, as well as in 2 different computers, one 8 years old. Yet, the TV station said they would not open.
A few months ago I sent them 2 different DVDs burned in Pinnacle Ultimate Studio12, which does not have nearly the options that PD11 has. They were able to open these DVDs just fine. The Pin12 also have no menu. When inserted in my 10 year old DVD player, they play right away on any of may equipment, just like the non-menu PD11 DVDs do.
I am dealing with the Producer at the station but they are not very helpful, it is either works/does not work, no further info provided. So I have fix this without their help. I get one more chance to send them DVDs, kind of like throw them over the wall and see what sticks.
I assume their equipment is old as they only use DVDs for input, not video files. If it was brand new I would assume the PD11 DVDs would work fine. Also my Pin 12 software is about 10 years old and does not have any new bells and whistles.
Any ideas on how to make a PD11 DVD that will work for them?
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Hi Tony,
I think I got it! You gave me the clue on "Smart Fit."
When I burned D-1, it is 67 minutes long, the max for PD11 at HQ is about 63 minutes. So then I needed the Smart Fit to get the best quality I could. When I did the next ones, which are 51 and 35 minutes long, I left Smart Fit on.
When I went back and disabled Smart Fit, the DVDs burned for D-2 and D-3 had no pixilation. Nor was there pixilation on D-1. So somehow when there is room on a DVD due to smaller file size, using Smart Fix reduces the quality much less than it did for the 67 minute D-1 file. While not logical to me, is seems to be what happens.
I had been hoping that Smart Fix with a smaller file would increase the quality, not lessen it, when there is room. In my mind, max quality for any file size is a desired feature. Seems pretty limiting to me that in order to get rid of pixilation I need to burn at 3.0, and watch Smart Fit closely. When I first started this I got pixilation on D-1 with Smart Fit, when burned at 8.0.
The DVDs I am using are guaranteed Tiayo Yuden so that was the last of my suspects.
My produced files of D-1, 2 and 3 were AVC HD 60p 28Mbps to get maximum resolution. Strange there was no option for high resolution HD when my source files were at 30fps.
Seems a waste if you start at something like 60Mbps in the Canon 6D and then produce at 1/2 the resolution at 28Mbps, and then do a DVD that is somewhere around 8Mbps. It does not help that PD11 does not show any resolution detail on what is being burned.
Once again, thank you.
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I had one good burn in D-1 in PD11.
When I could not get good burns for D-2 and d-3, I produced a file in PD11 and used Nero 12 to burn good ones.
I did not know should take a PD11 project, produce it to a file, then import that file to burn in PD11. Seems like a workflow that is counterintuitive. That kind of message should be in the instruction manual. But I will give it a try just to see what happens.
I will try not checking Smart Fit. Seems DVD at HQ will hold about 69 minutes. My biggest file, D-1, is 64 minutes. The other two are 50 and 35 minutes.
So I am burning again with PD11, this time with the produced D-2 file. I will not check Smart Fit.
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When I burn DVDs of project made from a master project, DVD 1 burns great, DVD 2 and 3 have pixilation every second or so for the entire length of the burned DVDs.
I took a 2 hour 35 minute set of clips and edited them first as one big project. Clip source is from a Canon 6D set at HD-30fps
Then I proceeded to make 3 discs, 1 and 2 are about 1 hour, with disc 3 about 35 minutes. For disc 1 I simply deleted the material for dics 2 and 3, saved as a new project and then burned at a burn speed of 3.0, with folder creation.
Then re-opened the master project and deleted material for Disc 1 and 3 to make Disc 2. I did the same process to make Disc 3.
As each DVD had a lot of subtitles, I then added the subtitles to each of the smaller D-x projects for final. At the end of each step I made a new project called D-1, D-2 and D-3. I then used these D-x projects to burn the DVDs. For D-1 I used the edited master project, but the other two were from their saved project files only.
To burn each disc, other than setting at no menue, changing the DVD name, and resetting the burn speed each time to 3.0, I did Disc 2 and 3 the same as Disc 1. Burn times for D-1 and D-2 were about 1.5 hours, with D-3 at about .75 hour.
For each burn of Disc 2 and 3, PD11 tells me it is deleting the folder made from the previous burn. So I made a new folder location that would not overwrite the D-1 folder, but it made no difference, still got the pixilation.
Throughout I did not start any other programs on the computer, so other than start-up garbage, there were no other programs running.
Disc 1 is perfect, Discs 2 and 3 have pixilation throughout. I shut down and restarted the computer, redid all 3 DVDs and they came out the same. D-1 is great, D-2 and D-3 have the pixilation. With no menu all 3 discs start playing when inserted into both old and new DVD players. With menu it waits until hit play, but still get pixilation on D-2.
D-2 and D-3 look like what I got before when burning at a faster speed of 8.0. But doing all I can to set to 3.0 burn speed, D-2 and D-3 have the pixilation. When the burn is finished, the setting is still at 3.0.
So in order to make a full set of DVDs I Produced D-2 and D-3 with PD11 to a 60p 28Mbps AVI file and used Nero 12 Titatinum to burn to DVD. No pixilation on either D-2 or D-3. And I did not use a menu when I burned them with Nero 12.
Any ideas?
PREFERENCES
TV format is NTSC (30fps) I am in US near Philadelphia PA, USA.
Hardware Acceleration: both unchecked (Enable AMD, and Enable hardware decoding)
Produce: no enables (reduce video blocky artifacts, Allow SVRT)
NOTE: I tried with and w/o reduce video blocky artifacts, no change, still had pixilation on D-2 and D-3.
DVD production: no chapters, no menu or titles, MPEG-2, HQ-Best Quality, Smart fit enabled, LPCM audio, 2 Channels, Cyberlink TrueTheater not enabled
NOTE: Redid D-2 with a menu, still got the pixilation.
DVD OUTPUT settings using the laptop disc drive:
enable Burn to disc
enable Create folder
not enable x.v. Color
no enable hardware video encoder
DVD BURN settings: recording speed: 3.0, enable inlcude buffer underrun protection
After the burn the setting still says speed at 3.0
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Thanks Rob.
I already know about the timeline markers you are referring to. They are not related to this issue. The only evidence of the "marker" is the way the clip acts.
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I am not aware I made any keymarkers, nor are any visible.
The issue started when I was working with Titler. But the other occurrences could perhaps be related to subtitles but none of the trigger points relate to a subtitle on/off location.
The good news was that my original files were untouched-uncorrupted as I only used copies in my editing process. About the only thing that may correlate is that the subtitles were adding more processing requirements on PD11 running on my older machine.
While the goal of this project is output to DVD for a TV station, I am loathe to reformat from MOV if I do not have to.
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Hi Rob,
I did as you suggested, saw the key attributes screen on the left in PD11 and saw no marks of any kind. I went right down to the frame where the blackout starts.
I saw where all frames were displayed in the preview window. Then it was one frame with image; next frame no image, black; then next frame, image; then all subsequent frames black to the end of the clip.
No marks of any kind in the Key frame settings window and tracks.
What is the file size limitation on attachments. My clips run 7min or 4GB.
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