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Editing problems with 4k files
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi All

I have just upgraded from PD10 to 13 for the specific reason of being able to edit 4k files.

My problem is: If, for example, I have 10 clips on the timeline, PD will play a small section ( a few seconds) and then stop or suddenly jump to the very end of the clips. Once the timeline scrubber has halted or jumped to the end, the audio carries on as normal. To edit the files completely I have to keep going back to where it last edited and carry on again so after a long time I do succeed in completing the film.

Once I eventually get the clips edited, PD13 renders at 3840x2160 without problems and the files can be played normally on my PC. I find it very frustrating that I can play 4k without problems, but the editing is so troublesome. All patches have been applied.

System Info:

Intel i7-4770 @ 2.50Ghz
16 gb Ram
64 bit windows 7

If there is something I can do, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks in advance

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 15. 2014 15:15

Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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Carl312
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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You might try a lower resolution Preview. I recommend the 'High' setting.

By lowering your preview you take more stress off the computer.

Produce will still produce the same high resolution you select in the Produce module.

You might also check your Build number against the latest Patch. Help > about or click on the word Powerdirector upper Right.

http://www.cyberlink.com/support/powerdirector-ultra/patches_en_US.html

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Thanks Carl

I tried all resolutions right down to the worst, but it still does the same thing. I have applied all patches too.

Any further ideas would be great.

Thanks again Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9870 Offline
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Hi The Shadowman -

Even though your PC looks fairly capable, you may need to use shadow files for editing, if Carl's suggestion doesn't help (not saying it won't).

It may be a combination of 4K resolution & higher VBR that's getting in the way of a smooth edit.

I don't have a 4K camera, but I've downloaded and edited quite a few. I've found that files straight off the camera, with a high BR, are much harder work for the PC that "edited" ones, which are often uploaded at lower bitrates.

Cheers - Tony
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi Tony - Long time no hear!

I have enabled "shadow files" and nothing has changed. Is there anything else I have to do, apart from enabling them?

Thanks

R Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Here's a very interesting thing. I have cured the problem and here's how.

A Panasonic GH4 records 4k at 3840x2160/25fps so one would naturally assume that a 25fps timeline should be used. However, as a last ditch try all attempt, I changed the timeline to 50fps and it works perfectly. All I have to do is remember to render back at 25fps.

Anybody know of a reason for this?

Thanks Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9870 Offline
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Hi again -

No - if you've checked Enable HD video processing (shadow file) in preferences, that's it.

No difference? Really? Had the icons on the files in the media library turned green? That indicates the processing is finished.

Could you please post the MediaInfo report for one of the 4K clips? What's the source? Some I worked on from the Samsung NX-1 were MPEG-4 HEVC 3840x2160 @ ~80MBps... hard work!

Cheers - Tony
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9870 Offline
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Oh - forget what I said - got a bit distracted.

Glad you found a solution, even though I don't understand how it made it any better

Cheers - Tony
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi Tony

I spoke too soon, it has started again.

Here's the info you requested:

MP4
Type: H264 AVC
Bitrate: 94.85
Resolution: 3840x2160
FPS: 25
Profile: High
Frame type: Progressive

Thank you

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 15. 2014 17:27

Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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PepsiMan
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Clarksville, TN Joined: Dec 29, 2010 01:20 Messages: 1053 Offline
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Quote: I have 10 clips on the timeline, PD will play a small section ( a few seconds) and then stop or suddenly jump to the very end of the clips...


try, in the

preferences-hardware acceleration-UnCheck enable hardware decoding 'no bridge too far'

Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 Super 8mm
Asrock TaiChi X470, AMD R7 2700X, W7P 64, MSI GTX1060 6GB, Corsair 16GB/RAM
Dell XPS L702X i7-2860QM, W7P / W10P 64, Intel HD3000/nVidia GT 550M 1GB, Micron 16GB/RAM
Samsung Galaxy Note3/NX1
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi PepsiMan

I have tried most combinations of check this, and check that, but to no avail.

Thanks for trying though - keep thinking! Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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Carl312
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline
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Fact is, you are editing 4K files, they are huge and very high bit rate, that is going to put a strain on anybody's computer.

You may have to just slow down and take your time.

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Thanks Carl

You are very right of course, but what I find strange is that I can edit in multicam mode without much of a problem. So why wont it work properly in ordinary edit mode?

However, I have discovered something that may throw some light on the problem. If I switch to "non realtime" mode it works fine, but of course there is no audio so it's not the complete answer.

If the above give you any ideas, I would be very grateful

Thanks again Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9870 Offline
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Hi Robert (shadowy guy) -

I'm staggered that you found using shadow files made no difference.

I downloaded a sample clip from the GH4 & did a comparison using (a) the original 4K clip & (b) the shadow file generated by PDR 13. The difference in video properties between the two is huge. 3840x2160 @ 81MBps beside 720x480 @ ~5MBps.

In the tests I inserted the 37 second clip 10 times. The original 4K clip played back exactly as you observed - play a bit - jump - audio continues. Using the shadow file, everything was smooth sailing.

The attached screenshot shows how Windows Tak Manager interpreted what was happening.

Cheers - Tony

Note to Sony NX-1 users: I attempted the same test using NX-1 4K clips, but after 3 hours, PDR still had not finished generating the shadow files. Too hard basket?
[Thumb - GH4 4K_Shadows.png]
 Filename
GH4 4K_Shadows.png
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
1057 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
255 time(s)

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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi Tony

Thanks for going to so much trouble for me, but I'm afraid it still doesn't work.

I loaded a new project with shadow files activated, then I placed one minute of 4k file onto the timeline. It played for 30 seconds then jumped to the end. As I have mentioned previously I can use multicam fairly effortlessly. I would have thought that the power needed for that would be even greater than straightforward editing - I may be wrong there.

It now works fine in "Non Real time mode", but it would be nice to have the audio there in the original edit.

Do you think I may have installed PD13 incorrectly?

Strangely, I have just done a check on one clip and the video sample (view properties) is the same size as the original - am I using the shadow files correctly? All I am doing is: enabling shadow files (in general) each clip then has a little yellow film clip in the corner. I the put them on the timeline as required - should I be doing something else?

Thanks

Robert Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6120 Offline
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By the time you read this you'll probably see that some (if not all) of your yellow icons have turned green, this indicated the shadow files have finished generating. You should wait until they all turn green to begin your edits. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)/Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/7,200rpm/w10x64---
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5. Tape capture using 4 VCR, TBC, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi Barry

This thicko has just realised that.

If I use shadow files is the 4k quality lost, or does it miraculously reappear when rendered. Otherwise there is no point in me having a 4k camera, if you see what I am saying.

Thanks very much for your help

Robert Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9870 Offline
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Robert -

The shadow files are just used for editing. The original 4K files are used in the final production.

Check out Dan's description here - http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/41804.page#215465

Cheers - Tony
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mark326 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: UK Joined: Mar 10, 2013 20:39 Messages: 3 Offline
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I experience much the same problems as Shadowman, editing 4K from Panasonic GH4 playback can stutter, sound plays but picture freezes until the end of the clip.
Shadow files make no difference.

Windows 8.1, i7 3.5GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD & HDD's, latest video drivers, latest beta version of PD13.

I also dual boot into W7 where I have trialed other editors which don't exhibit any of these issues.
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The Shadowman
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: UK Joined: Dec 15, 2014 13:06 Messages: 1831 Offline
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Hi Tony

Just to clarify the situation with shadow files. Once they are generated I can edit them in the timeline. What do I do then? Do I just render them in the normal way, or is some other action required prior to rendering?

@mark326

Hi Mark

Us GH4 people have to stick together and get this sorted. Can you give me clue as to which editors you know will do the job without all this fuss. Personally, as much as I love using Powerdirector I can no longer sing its praises. Panny TM10, GH2, GH4,
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