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AVC 1080/50 or 60p Users - PD11 Review
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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*** EDIT - Updated 30 Dec 2012 with Patch 2418 Installed ******

Summary of PD11 for AVC 1920 1080/50 or 60p users: This is an continuation of the same review from PD10 - http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/20074.page

This thread is for AVC (h.264) 1920x1080/50 or 60fps users. Such files are being produced by a range of Camcorders such as the Pana 700, 800 & 900 series, CX560 & CX700, JVC GC-PX10 etc...+ this format is now a formal part of the AVCHD spec http://www.avchd-info.org/format/ (which is a subset of the broader AVC spec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC ). Here are some notes on how these format is handled and produce by PD11:

Rendering Choices: The following is a summary from using the "Intelligent SVRT" under Produce which picked a correct profile under H.264/AVC. There are three options you can use to produce the final project.

1) CPU (Fast video rendering technology unchecked): This option works as you would expect and while it does re-encode the Audio and Video streams the quality and sync issues have been fixed. Looks good!

2) Hardware Video Encoder (GPU): While the original version of PD11 would use the GPU, I've not been able to test this as for the last couple of builds I get a "Production unsuccessful" error (documented later in this thread). This test were done using nVidia 310.64 drivers.

3) SVRT: How much quicker over CPU rendering will depend on the size of each of your clips and what % of the video needs rendering (more info documented later in the thread). The output of the rendered and SVRT segment looks good and there were NO transition or sync issues (even after remuxing).

Other: Couple of other related comments:
- Format: The output file is slightly "non std", I'm not sure if it is the header information in the M2TS container or the stream info (esp the Audio Stream) but some other apps don't like it much. I did create a "FixPD9" batch file that may work if you have any issues with your output but YMMV (see the prior PD9 thread on the topic here - http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/15533.page ).

- Audio: My test clips are 5.1 DD and if I check the properties from the library PD11 displays this info correctly. If I do this from the clips on the timeline, PD11 says the Audio is "unknown". Also when you use "Produce --> Intelligent SVRT" it only recommends the Video format and will render your Audio to 2.0 DD as default, so if you want to keep your 5.1 audio don't forget to click the Check Box!

- Timeline: It is fantastic that PD11 now lets you select the number of "Ticks" on the Timeline to match you frame rate for 25,30,50 and 60fps (including NTSC 1000/1001 variations). Oddly 24fps (and 1000/1001 variation) is missing yet you can produce in this frame rate.

Thanks
Nathan

==== Original Post Details on Rendering Choices ====
Rendering Choices: This is a mixed bag of issues and there is no One Best answer unfortunately. The following is a summary from using the "Intelligent SVRT" under Produce which picked a correct profile under H.264/AVC. There are three options you can use to produce the final project:

1) CPU (Fast video rendering technology unchecked): Slow (about 50% on top of real time). While it does re-encode the Audio and Video streams it keeps everything in sync even with remuxing to other formats. Unfortunately under a second test it produced many visible encoding artefacts (see subsequent post).

2) Hardware Video Encoder (GPU): Works pretty well on my setup (nvidia but have not tested either ATI/AMD or Intel). It is quicker than CPU rendering (about real time) and while the native PD11 output looks good any remuxing brings out an AV Sync issue (I presume there is a timestamp mismatch between the Video encode done with the GPU and the Audio done on the CPU). Thankfully it did not seem to produce any encoding artefacts.

3) SVRT (both with and without "Allow SVRT on single IDR H.264 video" checked) : Oddly this is now the slowest option (about a 100% on top of real time) and is "designed" to keep the content identical to the original except for the segments that are altered (eg adding titles, overlays, transitions etc) which is rendered. Given the loooong processing time I need to do some more testing as something odd is going on. The output however looks good and there were no sync issues when remuxing either.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at Jan 01. 2013 21:27

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Here is my "Test 1" project packaged up. It consists on one 25sec 1080/50p clip of a Metronome (click at the end of each arc so you can see any audio/video sync issues) that is repeated on the time line twice (so you can see if there is any join issue) with a couple of text overlays (to see any overlay rendering issues).

PD11 seemed to handle this one OK when using CPU Rendering.
 Filename
Test1.zip
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
39791 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
465 time(s)
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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In my second test I created a 1920x1080/50fps Test Pattern from individual PNG files to see how frame accurate PD11 is, then created various output using the PD11 AVC/h264 1920x1080 templates.
1) Time Line: The new time line option is frame accurate at 50 tics. 
2) CPU Rendering (Produce TAB) using the default AVC/h264 1920x1080 with CPU rendering (eg Fast video rendering technology turned off). While the encoder creates a frame accurate file, there are encoding errors.
3) GPU Rendering (Produce TAB) using the default AVC/h264 1920x1080 with GPU rendering (eg Fast video rendering technology turned on). As above but there were no issues encoding issues seen. The resultant files were also significantly larger than with CPU Rendering (eg 29MB to 18MB)
 Filename
Test2.zip
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 Description
 Filesize
8919 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
566 time(s)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Sep 20. 2012 20:39

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Here is an example of the poor CPU encoding using Test 2 above. Each segment should be black in turn, and as you can see there is problematic tearing in the rendering. There are lots of these issues with producing from this test file.
[Thumb - VA.png]
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VA.png
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40 Kbytes
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396 time(s)
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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FYI - I've not repeated all the tests at various output frame rates (eg 50i, 24p etc) but so far I'd say that there has been no change made during the Beta Testing and the feedback is the same as already provided to CyberLink.

The problematic CPU rendering is the worst of the issues IMO unless these artifacts are only contained to where the source material are still images (and on a per frame basis). Still, no issues when using GPU rendering (but you get remuxing issues).

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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OK - I've dug a bit deeper and think I've found the issue with problematic CPU rendering generating artefacts. It seems the encoder used is having issues with generating B-Frames (bidirectional predictive frames). If I go for a change the GOP Structure from "IBBPBBPBBPBBP" to just "IPPP" the artefacts are gone (but of course the file size just doubled).
At some point I’ll have a play with other GOP Structures to see if there is a better balance.

EDIT: GPU output uses the same GOP Structure "IBBPBBPBBPBBP" except the I frames are IDR frames + it uses 4 slices. The original footage use a Long GOP structure but same pattern. I did try some other GOP structures but anything with a "B" frame shows encoding issues. Given all of this it is clear that the SW Encoder used by PD that has an issue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 21. 2012 01:59

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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A GOP Structure of "IPPPPP" seems to be a reasonable compromise. File size is a bit larger than the original in most cases but no artefacts.

For those that want to create such a custom profile you will need to edit (or create) a Profile.ini in C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\CyberLink\PowerDirector\11.0 with data like:



All I did was to create a new profile in PD11 based on the one selected for me by the Intelegent SVRT and changed the bits I did not like (eg the "Pattern" and upped the Min BitRate).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 21. 2012 02:35

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi jmone,
Super thread and testing.
Dafydd
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Hi Dafydd, any news from Cyberlink on this?
Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi Nathan,
RD are a world unto themselves on most things! I will do a follow up.

Just as a footnote regarding GOP changing. I altered a Customise profile for a Sanyo HD2000. I had three changed GOP profiles and I rendered footage with each one. Bringing the rendered clips back in, the IBBP Custom profile was the only one offered for each clip. I didn't investigate further.

Dafydd
Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi Nathan,
CL have reproduced the test2.zip project. Unfortunately the next patch will not include a fix. Next one hopefully.
Dafydd
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Excellent news and thanks for the feedback!

FYI - quick test .... Applied the 25 Oct Patch (build 2215) and while it is clear there have been changes to the encoder as there appears to be less (and in different parts) rendering issues with B frames.... as expected they are still present- see pic. (note: the non B frame GOP pattern is perfect).
[Thumb - SB.jpg]
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Oct 25. 2012 16:34

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Odd one, after the updates to:
PD 11.0.0.2215
nvidia 550Ti - 306.97

I get an error when trying to use just the Default AVC 1920 x 1080/50p (28 Mbps) profilewhen using the GPU (Hardware video encoder)
"Production unseccessful. Please ensure your graphics card driver is up to date......"

All other Default Templates + my custom "No B Frame" version of the AVC 1920 x 1080/50p (28 Mbps) profile.
nvidia 550Ti - 306.97

Thanks
Nathan
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Dafydd B [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline
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Hi Nathan,
That is strange. I cant replicate that one.
Dafydd
PatC [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Location: Suffolk UK Joined: Nov 17, 2009 14:00 Messages: 156 Offline
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Hi Nathan
I came across that same error and posted a queery on 27/10/2012,
"Update 2215 halts Hardware Video Encode", I don't know how to link to it.

But yes, I rolled my Nvidia driver back and it still occured so I then uninstalled PD11 2215,
and reinstalled PD11 2110 and fault was gone.

Patrick.
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Thanks for the responses, I've not had enough time to troubleshoot it out. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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Tested on the new PowerDirector 11 build 2321 release : Corruption Issue still remains (see Pic).
[Thumb - BFC.jpg]
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BFC.jpg
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85 Kbytes
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313 time(s)
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Derek L [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: New Zealand Joined: Feb 02, 2010 23:08 Messages: 25 Offline
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Hi all,i have just finished using PD11 trial,all good so decided to buy upgrade, now Im getting the error when trying to use the Default AVC 1920 x 1080/50p (28 Mbps) profile when using the GPU (Hardware video encoder)
"Production unseccessful. Please ensure your graphics card driver is up to date......"

Should i uninstall all Cyberlink products ?
Is there a programme to totally remove all traces of PD8,PD9 & PD11,Then clean install ?
Many Thanks Derek

Intel Core i5-3570K, nvidia GTX 550ti, DDR3 8gb
stevek
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline
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Ziggy - did you double check to make sure that the new drivers were installed properly?

What version do you have? How about posting the results of the dxdiag evaluation of your computer (partB here)
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/7958.page

If you have the full version of those programs then use the trial version of Revo Uninstaller Pro -MODERATE MODE only. If you have upgrades, you may has some issues where you would have to install each upgrade before you can install the latest version.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 01. 2012 08:07

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BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
Derek L [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: New Zealand Joined: Feb 02, 2010 23:08 Messages: 25 Offline
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Hi SteveK, Yes all drivers installed properly, im using Ver 11.0.0.2215. When i installed upgrade i dont know what Ver it was but had a problem with the rendering ( the known problem with the GTX 550ti issue )so updated to the 2215 ver. All works well apart from the Default AVC 1920 x 1080/50p (28 Mbps) .
Just a thought here but here is the process i installed PD11,
Uninstalled PD11 Trial,reboot, installed PD11 Upgrade, then CyberLinkPD11_Content_Essential_CL.120711_ContentP_PCP120712-02.. then CyberLinkPD11_Content_Premium_CL.120711_ContentP_PCP120712-01
I wonder if i should have done PREMIUM before ESSENTIAL ? because of the -01 ?
I'll remove all Cyberlink products today, and reinstall contents in the -01 then -02 order to see if this helps Cheers
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