Thanks for the repost Philip,
Long threads "lose" information. Now new members can search and find the info a lot easier.
Dafydd

pjc3 - thanks for kicking this off and a good summary. Couple of additional contributions:

Background on the Format: The Pana TM700 series can record files in 1920x1080/50 or 60p depending on the country of purchase (but roughly PAL vs NTSC territories). This progressive format does not appear in the current AVCHD spec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD) created by Sony and Panasonic as a subset of the parent H.264/MEPG-4 AVC spec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC) specifically for camcorders. The files produced are compliant with the "H.264/MEPG-4 AVC High@L4.2" profile. Given that both Panasonic and Sony are releasing more models that record in this format (and they "own" the AVCHD spec), I would expect that the spec will be widened to include this profile. We are also starting to see a wider range of CE players that can playback these files natively.

PD9 Support for 25Mbps 1080/50 or 60p AVC (High@L4.2) Most consumer NLE (including PD9) will read these clips just fine and allow you to put them onto the time line and render them out as a part of a project in various formats. One advantage PD9 currently has is the ability to also render projects back out in a similar format and bitrate (something most others cannot do).

Creating and Editing a Custom Profile : This is the first step as described by pjc3 but I would suggest that you initially create a custom profile (under the Produce Tab --> H.264 AVC --> Profile Type = Custom --> press the "+" button) and create one that is similar to the specs of your model of the Camcorder (eg 50 or 60p). For example my settings are:
Video Tab
- Resolution = 1920x1080
- Frame Rate = 50 (also available is 59.94 or 60 for your NTSC models)
- Frame type = Progressive
- Profile Type = High Profile
- Entropy coding = CABAC
- Average Bitrate = 22500 (put this in for now - we will manually edit it up to a high rate later)
Audio Tab (again match this to the spec you have set you cam to record in)
- Audio compression = Dolby Digital
- Audio channel = Dolby Digital 5.1
- Audio compression rate = 384

Once this is done you can then manually edit edit it in Notepad this profile to increase your bit rates ( C:\Users\[YourUserName]\AppData\Roaming\CyberLink\PowerDirector\9.0\Profile.ini). For the 50p Cams I would suggest just bumping the following up (I know pjc3 uses higher rates on his 60p model)
<Video BitRate>24500000
<Max BitRate>28000000

...more to come on creating output PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

[Creating 1080/50 or 60p AVC Output: You can now use the modified Custom profile to create files in a similar format and bit rate, but after alot of playing around there are some issues, limitations that is worth keeping in mind. At its most basic, when a file is created it is made in several parts, a Video Track (eg x264 AVC), an Audio Track (eg DD) that are then muxed into a container/file (eg M2TS). For a file to playback correctly, the application needs to be able to read all three components. After a lot of poking around and testing, PD9 can produce a range of output with varying degrees of compatibility. Here is a summary of what I've found so far from a single M2TS file transferred from the Camcorder to the HDD using Pana's AE Writer Utility.

Specs are pulled off using MediaInfo, and as a comparison the original file is as follows:
Original File: M2TS (BDAV: 194MB, 65sec in length): Video (23.4Mbps, 1080/50p High@L4.2, 4 Ref Frames)
- No problems to report with this file (opens and plays in the expected devices)

The following is a comparison using the original file as input but then rendered back out of PD9 using the customer profile created above with some comments on compatibility:
No SVRT (or CPU Rendering): M2TS (MPEG-TS: 213MB): Video (25.6Mbps, 1080/50p High@L5.1, 2 Ref Frames)
- PD9 has unnecessarily changed the level to 5.1
- PS/3 complains the data type is not supported
- With PC Playback Haali splitter will not see the Video Track (need to use MPC)
- tsMuxeR complains that there is an unknown track (and it's the Audio)

Hardware Video Encoding (GPU Rendering): M2TS (MPEG-TS: 185MB): Video (22.2Mbps, 1080/25p Baseline@L4.1, 2 Ref Frames)
- Note: I used an ATI 5770 (pjc3 has much better results with his nVidia card)
- PD9 has downgraded the video to 25fps
- PS/3 complains the data type is not supported
- With PC Playback Haali splitter will not see the Video Track (need to use MPC and it is a stuttery mess)
- tsMuxeR complains that there is an unknown track (and it's the Audio)

SVRT (or Smart Render) should just copy all the frames that do not need rendering, makes a quick and 1 for 1 copy for these parts. PD9 in theory then only needs to renderer the bits that have changed (eg added an effect, title, transition etc). Currently PD9 will start to use SVRT till it gets to a segment that needs to be rendered then it stays in this mode till the end of the particular clip (it does not go back to SVRT). I tested three variations of the original file, one with no change (so it will SVRT all the way through), one with a Title at the start (so it never uses SVRT), and one with the Title at 10 sec (so it will use SVRT for the first 10seconds then render the rest of the clip). I was surprised to see that PD9 writes the file header differently in each case (and also the potentially the video track) pending when it starts rendering the file.

SVRT Rendering - no change: M2TS (MPEG-TS: 196MB): Video (23.5Mbps, 1080/50p High@L4.2, 4 Ref Frames)
SVRT Rendering - Title at Start: M2TS (MPEG-TS: 214MB): Video (25.6Mbps, 1080/50p High@L4.1, 2 Ref Frames)
SVRT Rendering - Title at 10sec: M2TS (MPEG-TS: 212MB): Video (25.4Mbps, 1080/50p High@L4.2, 4 Ref Frames)
- Few problems to report with these files as they all open and play in the expected devices (but tsMuxeR gives an error "Bitstream exception Unknown exception" error)

Conclusions: I think Cyberlink are pretty close to having something that works well out of the box for this file format. It seems there are some incompatibilities in how the files are being written out (I've also been playing with remuxing these files to fix this) but for now I will be using SVRT Rendering (even if with a title at the beginning it does not actually do any Smart Rendering).
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

really interesting read.

*** EDIT - From Patch 3305 onward I do not recommend using the following as it exposes more issues than it fixes - I am leaving this post here however as it may still be of use to some***

GUIDE: How to Remux: If you are struggling with playing back the 1080/50 or 60p AVC files produced by PD9 (or editing in other programs) here is a tool that will repackage your Video and Audio streams with more standard headers.

Download Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JJ68AQCQ

What it is: This is nothing but a batch file that first calls on "eac3to" to forcefully demux the Video and Audio streams, and then use "tsMuxeR" to mux them back into a new M2TS file.

How to Use: It is really straight forward to use and while it works for me (and pjc3 has had a bit of a test), please test it first on a sample file and see if it works for you before trusting your sacred memories to it! Anyway enough of the disclaimer:
1) Unzip the folder
2) Copy the clip you want to remux into the folder and call it "produce.m2ts" (eg the default PD9 name)
3) Run "Fix PD9.bat" and you will see a DOS box open and the various command run as follows that
- deletes a file in the directory called "output.m2ts" if it exists (eg the output file from the last time you ran Fix PD9.bat)
- demuxes the "produce.m2ts" file into temporary "video.h264" and "audio.ac3" files
- remuxes these files into "output.m2ts"
- deletes the temporary "video.h264" and "audio.ac3" files

You can then copy/move/rename the "output.m2ts" file to where you want it

How to Customise: I'm certainly no tsMuxeR expert (and all credit to the authors of these packages), but for those that want to tinker more in the settings used for the remuxing, these are contained in the "pd9.meta" file and more doco can be found here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=142559

Thanks
Nathan
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

After making a Custom Profile to match Panasonic 1080P/50 Camcorder Videos
the output produced by PD9 is nearly the same quality as the original.
However if you Author the edited video in PD9 the quality is lost due to Re-Encoding
and the following is changed as follow:
Frame rate : 50.00 fps changed to 25.00 fps
Progressive : Progressive changed to Interlaced
Audio Bit rate : 384 Kbps changed to 448 Kbps
BTW Thanks for PD9fix
I have used Aunsoft MTS/M2TS Converter to Remux Edited video clip with PD9
to be able to Author with multiAVCHD.

Quote:
A quick mention of some 1080/60p playback options include Dune media players, PS3, newer Panasonic Bluray players, WD live hub.

Pjc3,
Can you give us more information about playback for newer Panasonic Bluray players ?
I've got the SC-BTT755 player myself which is very new so wondering if it would support 1080/50p bluray.
If yes how do you author and burn such BlueRay disk which is not in the standard ...?

Thanks
Luc PD9 Ultra 64 build 2504 - Windows 7 home premium 64bit - ATI Radeon HD4670 512MB - Intel Quad core I7-930 2.8GHz - 6GB RAM - Camcorder Panasonic SD700 - Full HD 1080/50p

dhnj - If you mean by "Author" using the Create Disc then at present there is no 1080/50 or 60p option as this format is not (currently) part of either the AVCHD or Blu-ray disc standard, hence PD9 has no way of supporting a disc created standard that does not (yet) exist. I'm guessing but I think as this format becomes more popular with new models from Sony as well, the AVCHD spec will be modified to support 1080/50 or 60p....but it may be a while. That said, many of the devices from Sony, Pana, and others will already play 1080/50 or 60p, but keep in mind that it will be file based playback (eg you may be able to play the files from a Memory Card, Disc, or over the Network pending the make and model).

faucheur, you may want to post over at the AVSForum thread, eg according to this post your player should support these formats http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19832877#post19832877

Only the Panasonic DMP-BDT100, BDT300 and BDT350 can play 1080 60P from the SD card. The new models from Panasonic will also play this format.

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

1080P Video can be Authored(Create Disc) without Re-Encoding and maintaining the original quality
with MultiAVCHD free application.

Output can be burned to DVD R/RW or BD-R/RE discs for playback in AVCHD-ready players.

Output BDMV can be burned to BD-R/RE discs for playback in any Blu-ray player.

FYI - Cat 11.1 has made no improvement to the poor quality GPU Rendering on ATI Cards with native TM700 material.

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

I'd like to chime in here and vent at the industry (don’t know where else to vent). I've been shooting video for about 10 years now. I'm a reasonably informed consumer but certainly not an expert or anything approaching the posters to this thread. I purchased a Panasonic SD9 almost three years ago knowing that I would not be able to edit the video as the computer hardware and software had not yet caught up. Now with my new computer and PD9, I can edit my backlogged AVCHD video.

However, these formats are supposed to be consumer level. They are for the hobbyist who wants to shoot his family and friends and whip up a nice project with titles and transitions etc. and share the output. I knew (then) that I couldn’t edit AVCHD but how many people bought these camcorders thinking they could, only to find that they couldn't? They were sold as the natural evolution of mini-dv tape based camcorders but not all of the pieces were in place. Now that the pieces are in alignment, Panasonic is selling two new camcorders (one clearly aimed at consumers) that takes us right back to where AVCHD was 3-4 years ago. Unhappy with my 1080i Panny SD9 I was intrigued with the recommendations on this site for the two Panny 60p’s, particularly the SD600k. It is a very affordable piece of hi-tech equipment and I would buy it in a heartbeat. However, I saw this thread and realized that, once again the other pieces aren’t in place yet.

You would think that the industry wouldn't release these unless there was, at minimum, a simple workaround. For example, why can’t the software take 60p and skip every other frame to 30p for editing? This would permit us to edit and share the video now (albeit at a lesser quality than maximum) and also archive the 60p for editing in all its glory whenever the standards get sorted out.

If I’m missing something (quite possible; much of the above is greek to me) and the software can do this, please let me know. It may be enough to make me part with $380 for an SD600k.
HP Pavilion Elite 410f. AMD Phenom II 1045T (six core), ATI Radeon HD 5570 Graphics Card w/1GB, 8GB memory, terabyte HD, generic multi optical, LG BD burner, both Lightscribe, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Formerly used Ulead/Corel VideoStudio.

Ahhh I think you are fine, go buy your cam..... All the major consumer level NLE (including PD9) already accept this format as an input, let you add your titles, transitions etc then create a DVD, Blu-ray or any of the other existing std consumer formats that you want.

This thread is more about how to do all of that and then save it out as the same 1080/50 or 60p in a format and quality as close as possible to the original clip. This is where PD9 has the advantage as it is the only one where you can tweak it to do this NOW (though as this thread points out, there are some issues). PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

It looks like the SD600 is back in stock at Amazon and I'm seriously thinking of pulling the trigger. However, I still don't understand the editing situation (trying to understand; believe me). I currently have a Panny SD9 and being unhappy with the 1080i, I've decided to switch it over to 24fps to get 1080p. I have a blu-ray burner and intend to make BD discs. However, in order to burn to blu-ray it sounds like the 60fps 1080p output of the SD600 will have to be converted to 24fps. If that is true, would there be any improvement to buying the SD600 apart from the better features such as better face rec, better OIS, etc?

Can somebody please talk me through this in terms a non-techie could understand? I think a lot of members could benefit from this. Thanks. Btw what I don't like about the 30fps 1080i is how poorly it handles motion (even moderate motion).

Bill HP Pavilion Elite 410f. AMD Phenom II 1045T (six core), ATI Radeon HD 5570 Graphics Card w/1GB, 8GB memory, terabyte HD, generic multi optical, LG BD burner, both Lightscribe, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Formerly used Ulead/Corel VideoStudio.

Hi guys, sorry if this has already been answered but I didn't manage to find the solution so far in the forums

I have an HD700. I have been trying to produce a 1080p60 movie but each time I attempt to render, PD9 crashes. Not sure why, perhaps its because of my system, or the effects within the video. for example, there is a 13 minute video that i've tried to render and produce to a file about 15 times! all fails. Tried with MPEG4 HQ, MPEG4 low quality, wmv, and even the custom profile under AVC. I even tried to shorten the video to 7 minutes but it still crashes after a couple of minutes each time, although not always exactly in the same place

I have Windows 64bit, 4GB ram, ATI Radeon HD 5700, AMD phenom II X6 1055T 2.8GHz (not sure which bits of that are relevant I'm not really tech saVvy). version of PD: 9.0.0.2405

Any ideas?

I'm having problems getting my 1080P footage to save as either an mpg2 or AVCH file. I tried the process described above

" PD9 Support for 25Mbps 1080/50 or 60p AVC (High@L4.2) Most consumer NLE (including PD9) will read these clips just fine and allow you to put them onto the time line and render them out as a part of a project in various formats. One advantage PD9 currently has is the ability to also render projects back out in a similar format and bitrate (something most others cannot do).

Creating and Editing a Custom Profile : This is the first step as described by pjc3 but I would suggest that you initially create a custom profile (under the Produce Tab --> H.264 AVC --> Profile Type = Custom --> press the "+" button) and create one that is similar to the specs of your model of the Camcorder (eg 50 or 60p). For example my settings are:
Video Tab
- Resolution = 1920x1080
- Frame Rate = 50 (also available is 59.94 or 60 for your NTSC models)
- Frame type = Progressive
- Profile Type = High Profile
- Entropy coding = CABAC
- Average Bitrate = 22500 (put this in for now - we will manually edit it up to a high rate later)
Audio Tab (again match this to the spec you have set you cam to record in)
- Audio compression = Dolby Digital
- Audio channel = Dolby Digital 5.1
- Audio compression rate = 384

Once this is done you can then manually edit edit it in Notepad this profile to increase your bit rates ( C:\Users\[YourUserName]\AppData\Roaming\CyberLink\PowerDirector\9.0\Profile.ini). For the 50p Cams I would suggest just bumping the following up (I know pjc3 uses higher rates on his 60p model)
<Video BitRate>24500000
<Max BitRate>28000000

...more to come on creating output"

I managed to follow this and PD9 will allow me to select these options on my new profile, but then I get an error message saying that the programme cannot produce the video and then I'm stuck.

I did send an email to the customer support asking if there was likely to be a patch, or some easier way of sorting this issue out, but the reply just directed me to a page where I could check if my Panasonic camcorder was "supported".

The trial version od Magix movie edit pro 17 seems to be able to handle these files, but I am more comfortable with PD and don't want to change.

I have windows 64bit 4GB Ram ATI radeon 5700, Intel i7 and PD9.

Any other suggestions?

This entire thread has been extremely helpful. I am a tremendous newbie. That said, I thought I would pass on some of my additional findings on Power Director, Aunsoft, & WDTV:

I have a Panasonic TM700. I am recording 1080p 60 frames (59.94). I have attempted to use both Power Director 9 and Aunsoft to concatenate the MTS (or M2TS) files into one for seamless viewing on a WD TV Live player.

Power Director: I noticed that the playback on WDTV from Power Director M2TS output was noticeably choppier than the raw M2TS file straight from the camera playing on WDTV. I video my kids' hockey games (fast action). The problem looks like a framerate issue. From a PD processing perspective, I tweaked the profile.ini file as indicated earlier in this thread (nice tip). That tweak allowed me to SVRT process the video. After the tweak, I have tried every processing combination setting in PowerDirector (Hardware Processing, CABAC vs CAVLC, Block Reduction, higher bitstream, lower bitstream, etc.) to try and fix the problem... all to no avail. Alas, until I tried the FIXPD9 batch process (described earlier in the tread). This fix is old school and uses DOS with a combination of two programs, "EAC3TO" to demux and "tsMuxeR" to remux. Viola, it fixed the problem (and is really fast). I would assume that the demux and remux process fixes the header information (especially related to framerate). There is an obscure message when running tsMuxeR that the framerate is not in the header. Maybe that's why the choppiness on WDTV seems to come and go (if I watch closely). My process with this batch file is to produce the video using PowerDirector (H.265 AVC and the Profile.ini tweak). Then I take the produced video and run it through the FIXPD9 Batch process.

Aunsoft: There was a recommendation in the thread to use Aunsoft. I bought it. But quite frankly, I don't think that it works as described. I have tried all methods to concatenate M2TS files (and to also use the internal MTS import function directly from the Panasonic camera... which it recognizes). None of the files play back correctly on WDTV. The videos studder in an extreme fashion.

Cheers! And thanks again for all the help!

Update on 9.0.0.2702 Patch

Just done some quick test using a fresh install and here is my inital impression:
GOOD
1) You can now create a Custom Profile for H.264/AVC that includes all popular frame rates including 50, 59.94, and 60p without having to manually edit the "profile.ini" file
2) SVRT now works on these files


SoSo
1) The Maximum Video Bitrate you can select is still 22.5mbps while may be to low for some. If you want to bump it up you will still need to manually edit the "profile.ini" file. Note: I had no issues with this max bit rate for either SVRT to work or full CPU rendering (I have the 50p camcorder which is around this rate anyway)
2) The timeline still only supports viewing 25 or 30 fps (eg you can not get a frame accurate 50or 60 fps view)
3) CPU Rendered content still needs to be remuxed using the "PD9FIX" to be applied if the file can be played with some PC based playback SW (the headers are still "odd")

Not So Good
1) While SVRT works, you get a pause in the output at where the rendering goes from CPU to SVRT. Eg I take a 1mn05sec clip and add a Title in the middle. SVRT copies the info up to the point of the Title, CPU Renders that part, then goes back to SVRT for the rest (PERFECT!). The issue is that while the transition from SVRT to CPU Rendering is fine, the transition from CPU Rendering to SVRT has a pause in it. This makes the current implementation of SVRT unusable (I can provide a sample project if needed).

Summary: I am very pleased with the advances Cyberlink have made to support 1080/50 or 60p content but it still needs more work (in order of priority):
1) SVRT Bug
2) Writing complient headers when CPU rendering
3) Timelines that support viewing 50 / 60 fps

Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

There is bug in SVRT as follows:
2 clips join 100% SVRT OK 49 seconds.
2 clips with 1 transition 14 minutes and 30 seconds
SVRT information show 98% SVRT 2% re-encode(transition).
The bug seems to be that after re-encode of transition SVRT
does not revert back to SVRT, as re-encoding continues to the end.

I posted a rant earlier in this thread that as great as 60p is, it really isn't ready for prime time. The postings since then have convinced me that my observations were correct. This is no format for the average video hobbiest. I'm not saying that it can't be edited at all; you guys have shown that it can be. However, it only is after heroic measures, and the average guy (me) isn't capable doing/understanding those. I don't understand why the manufacturers would put out something like this so prematurely. Now, I want to pose a simple question, the answer to which may prove me wrong. I hope I am wrong.

Can a person who wants to capture at the highest quality (60p) and is willing to postpone production at that level until the software/standards catch up, convert the 60p to either 60i or 30p easily, for production/sharing now? In other words, can I easily import the 60p files into PD9 and edit and produce at those lesser formats now, while preserving my original copy (60p) for later use? In my earlier rant, I wondered whether the software could simply skip every other frame to output a 30p stream. This seems so simple that I have to believe there are reasons beyond my knowledge that would prevent this. Does the Panasonic HD writer do anything to "convert" the 60p to a more useable format? If not, is there any utility software that does such a conversion?

Finally, I understand that this may have been answered already in this thread. I'm just not knowledgeable enough to understand if it has been.

Bill HP Pavilion Elite 410f. AMD Phenom II 1045T (six core), ATI Radeon HD 5570 Graphics Card w/1GB, 8GB memory, terabyte HD, generic multi optical, LG BD burner, both Lightscribe, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Formerly used Ulead/Corel VideoStudio.