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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Thanks for suppling some additional info, since it's H.264 video, PD has to convert to MPEG to put on a standard HQ DVD.

The last pic to gain insight would be the "Burn in 2D" interface.

But basically, your understanding for a standard HQ DVD is not valid. The maximum compatible bitrate for a standard DVD to play in most players reliably is about the 9.5Mbps as you see in the "2D Disc" tab. So, for 1.5hr action video to DVD, it would consume about 6.4GB. You can't grow this to fit a 8.5GB DVD as it's at the maximum compatible bitrate. You can shrink to a 4.7GB DVD by using a lower bitrate or for PD, “Smart Fit”. So, your size of ~3.8GB does appear too small for what you have stated you did.

On that "Burn in 2D" pic, make sure the last item "Enable hardware video encoder" is not checked. Additionally, make sure in pref > Hardware Acceleration the GPU decode option is not checked. Try to burn to a folder again. For your settings you show in "2D Disc" tab and a 1.5hr timeline of action video, one would expect the size of the created folder to be about 6.4GB or so.

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Thanks Jeff.

Is attached file the one that you are referring to. If not please advise.

Would it help matters for the future for me to try to reset the capture settings on the video camera and if so what is the best settings?
[Thumb - PD17-Screenshot-2d-interface.jpg]
 Filename
PD17-Screenshot-2d-interface.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
354 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
4 time(s)
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Yes, uncheck that "Enable Quick Sync Video" as well as the pref item I mentioned prior and burn a new folder and verify the size.

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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I have unchecked the boxes that you have suggested and I am creating a new file to folder. I will let you know what happens when complete.

As for my understanding of HQ DVD being invalid... you are so, so correct. My understanding of the whole function of video production is very, very limited and I am really grateful for your help in this. I do this as a favour for a local society and it is proving to be an absolute nightmare with the new video camera (too many settings) and Windows 10. So sorry to be a nuisance.
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Jeff - Ok, that has now given me files totalling 5.13gb as against 3.77gb so your advice has worked very nicely thank you.

I think that my main enquiries arose from the following:


  1. The marker in blue showing 8009mb/8500mb, lead me to expect files totalling 8gb after writting to dvd

  2. I was expecting the format and quality to read more like 1920x1080, not HQ 720x576

  3. The 'Smart Fit' function showed 8259mb whereas the actual files proced were only 3.77gb



While using Pinnacle the equivalent 'Smart Fit' function gave the impression of filling the disc. A little further research has now shown me that the rendered files are in the region of 5gb-6gb, depending on the length of the production. In line with what you have achieved.

If you think that there is anything else that I can do to improve things can you let me know please. There are no doubt other settings that I can make a mess with!!

I am very, very grateful for your help in this and can now go ahead to re-render a couple of other productions and now have a confidence in the software for the future
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Quote

  1. The marker in blue showing 8009mb/8500mb, lead me to expect files totalling 8gb after writting to dvd

  2. I was expecting the format and quality to read more like 1920x1080, not HQ 720x576

  3. The 'Smart Fit' function showed 8259mb whereas the actual files proced were only 3.77gb


1) PD uses a variable bit rate, so regions of video that are not "action" the bitrate will be lower and hence not as much space utilized. The size estimate of 8009MB assumes entire content is "action" and will need the maximum bitrate. If one's timeline for instance has some regions of just titles, just pics, a slide show, these don't need the high bitrate as little "action" is present so 8009Mb would be overestimated and resulting DVD folder would be smaller.

2) A standard DVD does not support 1920x1080. You would have to use a Blu-ray for that quality for best compatibility with players.

3) Smart Fit has done some strange things, but more than likely the issue here was Intel Quick Sync encoding method. PD has hit and mis reliability with such encoding technology, hence the suggestion to turn it off. Smart Fit typically more applicable to shrinking contents to fit media as all media (DVD, AVCHD, BD) have spec limits.

It's generally always best to use a tool like MediaInfo to get the specifics of a file and understand bitrate, frame size, framerate vs what your intent was. You can use such tools on the VOB files in your created folder and should see the video bitrate near 8000kbps and total bitrate near 9500kbps

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Jeff - I have done experiments with the settings that you suggested and am now getting files of approx 5.1gb for this project. A considerable improvement on what I was getting before.
Can you help me with a link to good instructions for the general use of PD17 please. I think that I have most things set up now, just need to sort out the format of title 'slides' for the title line as jpgs don't load directly on to it and I am putting them onto the media line at the moment. This does work, but if I'm going to do it properly, I might as well learn how to do it properly
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Can't recommend any as I've never viewed them but here are CL’s suite of education: https://www.cyberlink.com/learning/powerdirector-video-editing-software?category=1

I don't understand your comment of title slides and jpgs. Any supported pic file can be loaded into the media library and then used on any video track for PIP type effect or a just a pic. Just keep in mind the higher number tracks sit on top of lower numbers, so track 2 is on top of the content in track 1. If I resize an item on track 2, then the content on track 1 will show.

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Jeff - Thanks for the link. My comment about the titles was because I have a selection of jpg titles which I tried to drag and drop into the Title Room. They wouldn't go in, but dropped nicely into the media room. I wondered what I was doing wrong. Just trying to keep things tidy, but they work ok from the media room. I assume that the files in the Title Room are a different format and that is why jpgs won't copy in. I find it easier to create simple static titles in Photoshop and cross fade them rather than create them in the title creator in PD17. I am looking a the 'credit scoll' feature but have been spectacularly unsuccessful up to now but will keep at it!! There is no doubt a yootoob guide somewhere so will keep looking.
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Quote Jeff - Thanks for the link. My comment about the titles was because I have a selection of jpg titles which I tried to drag and drop into the Title Room. They wouldn't go in, but dropped nicely into the media room. I wondered what I was doing wrong. Just trying to keep things tidy, but they work ok from the media room. I assume that the files in the Title Room are a different format and that is why jpgs won't copy in. I find it easier to create simple static titles in Photoshop and cross fade them rather than create them in the title creator in PD17. I am looking a the 'credit scoll' feature but have been spectacularly unsuccessful up to now but will keep at it!! There is no doubt a yootoob guide somewhere so will keep looking.

The Title Room is for PD titles, not your set of images that you decide to call titles. So correct, you don't drag them into the Title Room. You can create your own custom titles, and they could contain a pic, once saved would appear in the custom tag of Title Room.

The same is valid for other rooms like Particle or PiP Rooms, you can create custom versions but you don't drag and drop your content to the Rooms.

All user assets are typically contained in the Media Library to drag and drop to the timeline.

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Jeff - Sorry to have to pick your brains again but since my success with the 5.1gb file, my next wo projects appear to have returned to the 3+gb area and wondered I you can offer any idea why.

Project 1 is 1hr 48min 12sec long and rendered (eventually) a 5.13gb file
Project 2 is 1hr 29min 29sec long and intially rendered a 4.22gb file and subsequent tests after a Windows 10 update and the error code eC00C0005 problems were 3.41gb and 3.54gb
Project 3 is 1hr 33min 12sec long and rendered a 3.27gb file

I appear to be going backwards. As far as I am aware I haven't changed anything but then I thought that about the error code eC00C0005 problems (https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/20/32367.page#348119) that you helped me with which were solved by resetting DTS to Dolby 5.1.

Can you think of anything that I may have changed or may have been reset with a Windows 10 update, which happened between the Project 2, 4.22gb and the 3.41 test run.

Apologies for my ignorance (and screwing up the system) again!!!
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Most likely just audio bitrate, 1536Kbps for DTS, 256Kbps for Dolby. So for 90 min video, about .8GB difference. Same as what you saw, 4.22 to 3.41GB, .81GB difference.

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Jeff - Great. Thanks for that.

Of course the next question, which crosses over to the thead about the error code, is why did I start to get an error code for Project 2 if my original projects were DTS. As you suggested the error cleared when I charged to Dolby 5.1? Is there something in the set-up preferences which might cause a conflict (currently prefs set to Dolby 5.1). It is not a great problem but I would like to know why, especially if I have managed to change something somewhere which I didn't know about. I'm afraid that I am finding PD17 somewhat confusing with all the various settings, file types, bit rates etc etc, especially with so many menus which are not exactly self explanitory (not read the stuff on the tutorial links yet) or user friendly for the novice like me, like the difference between the 'render' and 'burn'/write to disc functions

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 08. 2021 13:35

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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Quote Jeff - Great. Thanks for that.

Of course the next question, which crosses over to the thead about the error code, is why did I start to get an error code for Project 2 if my original projects were DTS. As you suggested the error cleared when I charged to Dolby 5.1? Is there something in the set-up preferences which might cause a conflict (currently prefs set to Dolby 5.1). It is not a great problem but I would like to know why, especially if I have managed to change something somewhere which I didn't know about. I'm afraid that I am finding PD17 somewhat confusing with all the various settings, file types, bit rates etc etc, especially with so many menus which are not exactly self explanitory (not read the stuff on the tutorial links yet) or user friendly for the novice like me, like the difference between the 'render' and 'burn'/write to disc functions

Yes, video editing and specifics have a learning curve.

I think perhaps the DTS encoding feature PD was using may have lapsed at year end. Mine stopped working first of the year across all PD versions, 14-19. Several forum posts about issue, WIN7, WIN10, USA, Germany, so I think something rather general..., you would have to contact CL support for official answer, https://www.cyberlink.com/support/index.html . I simply provided a means, knowing the issue, to create a DVD. If the size bothers you, use LPCM audio vs Dolby and the size will go back up as the audio bitrate is then 1536Kbps. In fact, CL also removed Dolby ability in latter releases.

Jeff
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Jeff - Thanks for you help. If PD has stopped suporting DTS without any warning, giving only a vague error code, then I am far from impressed. 5.1 surround was one of the reasons that I went for this suite, so it looks like there is only DD 5.1 and that this may only be for a limited time. I assume that LPCM is 2 channel only, or have I got that wrong as well?

I was intrigued to experiment with 'disc render' earlier. I appear to have created a file approx 15gb in size and have gone from one extreme to the other!!!
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4692 Offline
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Quote Jeff - Thanks for you help. If PD has stopped suporting DTS without any warning, giving only a vague error code, then I am far from impressed. 5.1 surround was one of the reasons that I went for this suite, so it looks like there is only DD 5.1 and that this may only be for a limited time. I assume that LPCM is 2 channel only, or have I got that wrong as well?

I was intrigued to experiment with 'disc render' earlier. I appear to have created a file approx 15gb in size and have gone from one extreme to the other!!!

I never implied PD has stopped supporting DTS, my guess they have some anomaly that they need to resolve. Nothing you set in pref or a menu somewhere, windows update, that made it stop working. My box, not connected to internet stopped working, as I said, my guess some form of timebomb on some aspect appears to be only plausible reason since it occurred on 1/1/2021. As suggested, contact CL support for your clarity.

Current PD19 product supports LPCM (2 channel) and DTS (5.1) when working as options for DVD or BD, no DD support.

I suspect your 15GB size is simply a format for BD. If you change to BD in PD and select the common H.264, 1920x1080/60i, 24Mbps format, the size will be similar for your 90min timelines. One simply can't throw sizes around without some context of formats, media, ....so on.

Jeff
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PowerDirector Moderator
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 959 Offline
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Quote

I never implied PD has stopped supporting DTS, my guess they have some anomaly that they need to resolve...........

Jeff



Hi folks,

Keep an eye on this topic, hopefully the issue with DTS that affects some projects will be patched in the near future.
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/84211.page#post_box_348303

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator
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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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I have made an interesting discovery regarding my enquiries about file sizes. My final video files from the new posh, all singing, Canon video camera have, as mentioned previously come out at about 3 to 4gb. The final files made recently that have come from my 12 year old 3mega pixel camera are coming out at over 5gb, and those have been reduced using the smartfit function. All explanations and advice is, as ever, gratefully received!!! It looks like the settings on the new camera are of lower resolution than the old one. Unfortunately I don't really know what the best setting on the new camera should be or even the file type. Talk about raw beginner. Guidance, again, gratefully received..... please.

Additional information:
For a 2 hour production (approx time) the original files are...
Old camera producing MPG files set to best quality HD.. 7.3gb
New camera producing MTS files set to AVCHD PF 25.00 / 24Mbps.. 15.5gb

I expected bigger files on the finished DVD than I am getting due to what I thought were the higher spec original files from the new camera.

The choice of settings on the new camera is:
28Mbps LCPM (50.00P)
28Mbps (50.00P)
24Mbps LPCM
24Mbps*
*current setting - does this need changing?

The difference in camera files is what originally prompted my enquiries about file size. Do I assume that the compression of the AVCHD/MTS files is better on the new camera than the old which is giving the smaller DVD files?? I have no desire to produce wonderful movies, just produce the best quality DVD record that I can of our productions without spending forever in production so I just want to set the camera to the best settings, record and produce a DVD as best as I can.

If there is any simple guides on the web that anyone can point me to, I would be very grateful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 20. 2021 05:54

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Carl312
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9084 Offline
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Quote: ["The choice of settings on the new camera is:
28Mbps LCPM (50.00P)
28Mbps (50.00P)
24Mbps LPCM
24Mbps*
*current setting - does this need changing?

The difference in camera files is what originally prompted my enquiries about file size. Do I assume that the compression of the AVCHD/MTS files is better on the new camera than the old which is giving the smaller DVD files?? I have no desire to produce wonderful movies, just produce the best quality DVD record that I can of our productions without spending forever in production so I just want to set the camera to the best settings, record and produce a DVD as best as I can.

If there is any simple guides on the web that anyone can point me to, I would be very grateful."}

Lets take this one step at a time. The Bit rate of the Video is the largest contribution to file size and quality of the video.

You can reduce file size by reducing the bit rate of the video. (Do not do that on the original video, make a copy).

Your camera is producing 24-28 Mbps videos, which is great quality video, at the cost of much larger file size. For a DVD 5 Mbps is plenty good. By producing your camera video to 5 Mbps, you can reduce the filesize to a much smaller file without losing much quality, the normal bitrate for a DVD is in the 5Mbps range which is how you can fit a two hour video on a DVD. (not true for a Blueray. disk)

The amount of compression is dependent on the CODEC used. Compression is an act of throwing away bits of the video to make things fit a small package. Bitrate is the biggest contributer to file size. Secondary is quality of the video.

The easiest way to reduce file size is by reducing the bit rate. For HD video anything 5 Mbps or greater is great quality.
Can you see the difference?, Yes you can but it is a small difference to our eyes. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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Bad wolf [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 16, 2019 11:50 Messages: 32 Offline
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Carl - Thank you for your reply and insight. However my problem is not that I want to reduce file sizes, far from it. My problem is getting the best quality DVD (assume large files = best quality) files onto an 8.5gb dual layer dvd.

As I mentioned previously:
PD17 is producing a 3/4gb dvd from original files totalling approx 15.5gb (MTS originals) from my new camera and
PD17 is producing a 5gb (reduced to fit the 8.5gb dvd using smartfit) dvd from original files totalling approx 7.3gb (MPG originals) from my old camera. So the 'pre-smartfit' files would be even larger.

I am trying to understand why from the smaller files from the old camera PD17 produced a larger dvd file than when using larger (better quality) files from the new camera. Size on the finished dvd is not a problem but trying to understand why PD17 is producing smaller sized dvd files from the new camera which has larger files is!!

I would also like to ensure that the new camera is set correctly so that I can get the best quality original files for PD17 to work on (size here is not an issue)

If my posts are somewhat confusing, please accept my apologies, to reason for that is.... I am very confused!!!... sorry.
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Carl312
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9084 Offline
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Quote Carl - Thank you for your reply and insight. However my problem is not that I want to reduce file sizes, far from it. My problem is getting the best quality DVD (assume large files = best quality) files onto an 8.5gb dual layer dvd.

As I mentioned previously:
PD17 is producing a 3/4gb dvd from original files totalling approx 15.5gb (MTS originals) from my new camera and
PD17 is producing a 5gb (reduced to fit the 8.5gb dvd using smartfit) dvd from original files totalling approx 7.3gb (MPG originals) from my old camera. So the 'pre-smartfit' files would be even larger.

I am trying to understand why from the smaller files from the old camera PD17 produced a larger dvd file than when using larger (better quality) files from the new camera. Size on the finished dvd is not a problem but trying to understand why PD17 is producing smaller sized dvd files from the new camera which has larger files is!!


I would also like to ensure that the new camera is set correctly so that I can get the best quality original files for PD17 to work on (size here is not an issue)

If my posts are somewhat confusing, please accept my apologies, to reason for that is.... I am very confused!!!... sorry.
The maximum bit rate a standard DVD can support is about 10 Mbps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video#Data_rate

That limits the qualiy video you can record on a standard DVD disc.

However AVCHD on a DVD is max 18 Mbps. (Requires a Blueray player)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Specifications

The length for AVCHD video is limited by the data storage on a double layer DVD. (I think the length is about 20 minutes)

If you are creating AVCHD disks you can do a maximum of 1920x1080 @ 18Mbps. This format requires a Bluray player, AVCHD will not play in a standard DVD player.

Different bit rate of the original video will make different size produced files. Bit rate is the main file size creator. The higher the bit rate the larger the file will be.

Size of the final video file depends on the resolution and the bit rate of the video. The easiest way to reduce file size is to reduce the bit rate.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 20. 2021 10:00

Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

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