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PD 365 not finding my 8mm video camera
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
Quote The DVD format is native 16:9. Nonsquare pixels are used for 4:3 format.


16:9=1.78 for square pixels.

720/480=1.5
720/576=1.25

yep. this is correct.
[Post New]
Yeah, that's a long story:

https://lurkertech.com/lg/video-systems/#pixelaspect_confused

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Oct 08. 2019 14:30

optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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Quote Analog video is best captured as lossless AVI, preferably Huffyuv, MagicYUV, Lagareth, even UTvideo. I capture using Huffyuv within VirtualDub, then for streaming I deinterlace with QTGMC within Hybrid. Then I use PD for color, titles, and audio. At this time PD18 is not working with lossless, and no 64bit PD can capture lossless AVI, no PD can capture AVI at the preferred 720x480. There is a VirtualDub learning curve but the end result is so much better it’s remarkable. If the camera is Digital8, NTSC DV is lossy, PAL is less lossy. If I had a digital8 camera that also had s-video I would use the s-video and VirtualDub to get 4:2:2 color video.

Barry, I'm going to upend your apple cart, because I think there's a way to do pretty much everything you want inside PD. All of the extra steps you've been doing these past years have been because PD can't do what you want with your capture hardware, not because PD can't do it all.

As I wrote in this post, I bought a cheap capture device, and it works natively in PD18. It captures to 640x480 or 1024x768 4:2:2 lossless progressive AVI (YUY2 codec), and also to 720x480 4:2:0 H.264. The only downside is no 720x480 AVI.

Right there, in one step, this device has eliminated your need to capture using VDub and then do de-interlacing in Hybrid. You can capture in PD and can immediately get to work on it without any additional preparation. It's that simple

Here's a OneDrive folder with the 2 sample clips, made from a commercial VHS tape with composite video. I'd like to know how well the capture quality compares with what you're used to seeing.

I also produced both to 640x480 30p to see how PD downscaled the 1024x768 AVI clip. Take a look at everything and let me know what you think!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
[Post New]
Quote

Barry, I'm going to upend your apple cart, because I think there's a way to do pretty much everything you want inside PD. All of the extra steps you've been doing these past years have been because PD can't do what you want with your capture hardware, not because PD can't do it all.

As I wrote in this post, I bought a cheap capture device, and it works natively in PD18. It captures to 640x480 or 1024x768 4:2:2 lossless progressive AVI (YUY2 codec), and also to 720x480 4:2:0 H.264. The only downside is no 720x480 AVI.

Right there, in one step, this device has eliminated your need to capture using VDub and then do de-interlacing in Hybrid. You can capture in PD and can immediately get to work on it without any additional preparation. It's that simple

Here's a OneDrive folder with the 2 sample clips, made from a commercial VHS tape with composite video. I'd like to know how well the capture quality compares with what you're used to seeing.

I also produced both to 640x480 30p to see how PD downscaled the 1024x768 AVI clip. Take a look at everything and let me know what you think!


Hi, Optodata,

I used to use a device looking identical to the one you posted, but no mater how I tried, I couldn't get it to work in Windows 10 64bit... I searched everywhere for drivers, but ultimately gave up and bought another that claimed to come with windows 10 drivers and had positive reviews saying as much...

I bought it - cost a whole £19 here in the UK - And BINGO ! - it works...

However, I am most intrigued as to how to get it working within PD-365...

I get as far as a window "Initialising analogue device" - Then nothing but flashing black/white bars in the window...
Going up/down the 'Channels' does nothing.

I tried this in both PD-365 and a standalone PD15 I have installed...
Nada on both.

Other far older / cheaper / rubbishy editors can see the Hi8 capture device...
And I'm then going through the same route as Barry

Info on direct capture would really help shorten my work flow through grabbing these clips.

Gerry

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 11. 2019 09:44

tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
The screenshot from optodata show that the capture is from webcam rather than from the analog tv signal. This is from the driver installed by windows 10. This reminds me of a post a few years ago where the OP purchased such a device and it came with PD9 which will not capture under win 10 he claims. He solved the problem by getting the well-known free driver from nch software. It shows up as capture from webcam as progressive video. The same driver causes my win 7 pc to crash hard, so I had to remove it as I never need it. Other users have also reported success with the same driver and capture software.

My supplied vc500 driver with PD allows interlaced, progressive, mpeg-2, mp4, or avi with no compression, and with different resolutions recordings. I stay with mpeg-2 interlaced as svrt works in the final production. I am sure that Barry has his reasons for using a different avi.

Optodata – Your capture is very good but I see a major problem. That is ringing or artificial sharpening in the final stage in the vcr output meant for analog tv. The Alvin sub has this halo around it caused by this artificial sharpening. This is typical of most consumer grade devices. High end vcr and Hi8 camcorders have an edit switch to avoid this problem. You won’t see the halo around objects. In this digital age any sharpening should be done post production and not in the vcr. The capture device used here is as good as any other ones sold at any price. This is my 2 cents.
optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
[Post New]
Quote The screenshot from optodata show that the capture is from webcam rather than from the analog tv signal. This is from the driver installed by windows 10.

...

Optodata – Your capture is very good but I see a major problem. That is ringing or artificial sharpening in the final stage in the vcr output meant for analog tv. The Alvin sub has this halo around it caused by this artificial sharpening. This is typical of most consumer grade devices. High end vcr and Hi8 camcorders have an edit switch to avoid this problem. You won’t see the halo around objects. In this digital age any sharpening should be done post production and not in the vcr. The capture device used here is as good as any other ones sold at any price. This is my 2 cents.

Yes, This is with the Win10-supplied drivers. This is my first tryout of any capture device, and I'll see what happens when I load the supplied drivers. Thanks very much for the detailed feedback!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
[Post New]
Quote

Yes, This is with the Win10-supplied drivers. This is my first tryout of any capture device, and I'll see what happens when I load the supplied drivers. Thanks very much for the detailed feedback!


I've tried several settings to get PD to see my capture device directly, but all to no avail...
(Hi8 camera using the 'S' socket, audio via phonos )

Incidentally, I've tried several 'Modern' editing software packages (I installed quite a few to play with them)
The ONLY one that would see the USB video grabber instantly was 'Corel VideoStudio Pro 2019'
Now this is a fairly rubbishy editor compared with PD - It can't handle 10 bit files and is limited as to how it captures the video from the USB device (Seems to be in mpeg-2, ) - But it does see it and grab video...

If I could get PD to perform this task, I'd be a happy man !

Gerry
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
[Post New]
Quote The screenshot from optodata show that the capture is from webcam rather than from the analog tv signal. This is from the driver installed by windows 10. This reminds me of a post a few years ago where the OP purchased such a device and it came with PD9 which will not capture under win 10 he claims. He solved the problem by getting the well-known free driver from nch software. It shows up as capture from webcam as progressive video. The same driver causes my win 7 pc to crash hard, so I had to remove it as I never need it. Other users have also reported success with the same driver and capture software.

My supplied vc500 driver with PD allows interlaced, progressive, mpeg-2, mp4, or avi with no compression, and with different resolutions recordings. I stay with mpeg-2 interlaced as svrt works in the final production. I am sure that Barry has his reasons for using a different avi.

Optodata – Your capture is very good but I see a major problem. That is ringing or artificial sharpening in the final stage in the vcr output meant for analog tv. The Alvin sub has this halo around it caused by this artificial sharpening. This is typical of most consumer grade devices. High end vcr and Hi8 camcorders have an edit switch to avoid this problem. You won’t see the halo around objects. In this digital age any sharpening should be done post production and not in the vcr. The capture device used here is as good as any other ones sold at any price. This is my 2 cents.
The VC-500 is a good capture card. That is what I use, the only glaring issues being it captures a little dark, which I adjust in the proc amp, and in a related issue, the proc amp only has brightness and contrast sliders working in Windows 10, the other sliders are not available.
My reason for using "lossless" AVI is file size. You simply cannot beat AVI for capture, it's often as crisp and clear as on the tape, but the file sizes are huuuuge, so I use lossless compression AVI, HuffYUV being favored. Yes, it's compressed AVI, but lossless, much smaller, so I can capture lossless, and do fixes lossless, and I don't do a lossy compression till final delivery, DVD, streaming, etc. MPEG compression is simply horrible, doing it twice is horribler.
As far as 640 vs 720 capture, I am going by the recommendations of the best in the world, 640 is acceptable, 720 is better.
Much of what I do is beyond my knowledge, I parrot what others are doing, with very good results.
That being said, it all starts with a quality VCR. Mine is a JVC-S7800U, built in line TBC, and noise filters. I couple that with a Datavideo TBC-1000 for frame sync, and if needed a Panasonic ES-10 or ES-15, with remote for menu selections. The ES series is HIGHLY recommended, it is a poor mans TBC, and if you have fluttery straight lines, or that annoying bend of image at the top of your capture, you need to add an ES to your workflow. You use it as a pass-thru, NOT to record. A true TBC like my Datavideo will run you $6-800 easy now, very rare.
As for de-interlacing, nothing beats QTGMC, period. I even bob to 60P and raise the bitrate a little. I have never been pleased with creating progressive files from my AVI within PD, just not up-to-par. Cyberlink needs to employ better algorithms.
As for Alvin, I see the ringing, sometimes it's baked into the tape by a lousy dub, sometimes unfixable, but Avidemux and Hybrid, and VirtualDub all have suprememly powerful filters to improve video, all free.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 12. 2019 08:46

HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
[Post New]
Wow, so much to learn here. Thanks for spelling everything out!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
BarryTheCrab
Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline
[Post New]
Yup, tons to learn. Look at Sonic's post on the vagaries of aspect ratio. It'll make your melon pop. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT
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