It kept flip-flopping, but at least it ended up on the right flop! Regards,
Dan
Power Director 21-Ultimate
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Quote: Hi All -

This may give you a giggle - or not. When you purchase SmartSound music, it's typically licensed for use in videos posted on social media websites like YouTube & should NOT be subject to any copyright claim.

With the changes Google has made to YouTube (e.g. monetisation options), copyright claims have been coming thick & fast. This is not SmartSound's fault, nor the poor end users' who've paid $$$ to use properly licensed music.

The attached Q&A screenshot from SmartSound's Facebook page illustrates the issue.

Recently I posted a *tutorial* on YouTube containing 4 SmartSound tracks. Almost immediately, I received 4 separate copyright claim notices. Soon after, I followed the procedure to dispute the claim described on *this page* What followed was a little bit comical, so I'll just list the paraphrased chronolgy:

1. Friday 8 Jan 6:53pm - 4x copyright claim notices


2. Saturday 9 Jan 7:30am - submit dispute to AdRev (who'd made the original claim to YouTube)


3. Saturday 9 Jan 9:23am - email from AdRev rep (paraphrased) "Don't worry. We've got it under control"


4. Saturday 9 Jan 1:16pm - copyright claims released - 4x notifications


5. Saturday 9 Jan 1:17pm (one minute later) - 4x new copyright claims for the same thing!


6. Sunday 10 Jan 1:50pm - 4x "Good news! The copyright claim on your video was released"


7. Sunday 10 Jan 1:50pm - email from a different AdRev rep (pasted below)

Hi there,

Thank you for your email. The claim has been released from the video. Let us know if you need anything else; we're here to help. Cheers!

All the best, Jack

Haha! We're here to help... clog up your inbox!


Cheers - Tony

Er, yeah, Tony!

Now you know why I don't bother with YouTube, it's not worth all the grief! If I choose to include music or not to include music on my video edits, I know I'm not going to cop a claim for copyright as my videos are only ever seen by family or friends, via DVD. If I use Smartsound I use only the material already there as "free samples", otherwise I'll use commercial tracks that I've sourced from 45rpm or LP vinyl recordings, cassettes or extracted(ripped) from CDs. Often I don't use music at all!

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil -

That's very interesting... and if all I wanted to do was make DVDs for family and friends that'd be fine.

BUT - most of my family and friends have no interest in viewing video tutorials, so I'd rather post them where people who might can see them.

I shared this little incident for members who might experience a similar thing.

Cheers - Tony
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Quote: Neil -

That's very interesting... and if all I wanted to do was make DVDs for family and friends that'd be fine.

BUT - most of my family and friends have no interest in viewing video tutorials, so I'd rather post them where people who might can see them.

I shared this little incident for members who might experience a similar thing.

Cheers - Tony

Hi, Tony!

"That's very interesting!" Were you behind a tree wearing a German army helmet when you typed that?(ha-ha). You have a reason to be on YouTube with your "PDToots!" tutorial segments, I don't have such a reason. But do you do home movies at all, other than your tutorials? Like, for instance, I'm waiting for April this year when Maitland holds its annual "Steamfest", where steam locomotives are shown off in all their splendour. Before that, though, is Easter(late March) when I'm off on my (almost) annual Easter camping trip to Nundle.... Nundle? It's a small town in the New England region of New South Wales. It was a one-horse town but the horse got bored and ran away. When I shoot videos on these, will I use music? Maybe, then again, maybe not, depends on my mood when I edit the material I've shot.

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil -

Having invested many $$$ in purchasing licensed music from SmartSound, I (and others) have an interest in being able to use that legally purchased music in situations described in the license agreement. That's what SS users pay for.

This thread refers to the "disconnect" between SmartSound licensing agreements & spurious claims by third parties, like AdRev, to YouTube... resulting in wasted time for the end-user.

Everyone's different and we all go about things in different ways, but how you or I choose to privately share our videos of Grandma's birthday party or a fishing trip is kind of irrelevant, here.

Cheers - Tony
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Hi Tony, Sorry to hear about your ordeal with YouTube! I've only been reading in this forum about the issue with SmartSound and music on projects and I've 'gathered' that if I ever want to post a video on YouTube I'd need to (1) have no music on it or (2) have music that is approved by YouTube which I THOUGHT was SmartSound music or music that is sold with the expectation that it is cleared for use in public posting on whatever websites.

However, with YouTube even confusing what appears to be legally purchased and licensed music - I am skeptical that I'd try to incorporate music into whatever video that I might create that I'd want to post on the web.

Maybe they would allow original music? (that is ... music created and performed by myself)?!?!?!? But this certainly leads to MUCH more work - unfortunately. Oh well!

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Quote: Hi Tony, Sorry to hear about your ordeal with YouTube! I've only been reading in this forum about the issue with SmartSound and music on projects and I've 'gathered' that if I ever want to post a video on YouTube I'd need to (1) have no music on it or (2) have music that is approved by YouTube which I THOUGHT was SmartSound music or music that is sold with the expectation that it is cleared for use in public posting on whatever websites.

However, with YouTube even confusing what appears to be legally purchased and licensed music - I am skeptical that I'd try to incorporate music into whatever video that I might create that I'd want to post on the web.

Maybe they would allow original music? (that is ... music created and performed by myself)?!?!?!? But this certainly leads to MUCH more work - unfortunately. Oh well!

CS

I am not Tony,

Youtube has music on their site that you can use without any challenges.

https://www.youtube.com/user/AudioLibraryEN

https://www.youtube.com/user/AudioLibraryEN/about

Smart Sound is another source of Royalty Free music. Smartsound is not free, except for the few tracks supplied with Powerdirector.

Any CopyRighted music uploaded to Youtube will get flagged.

Yes, you can use your own original music that you create yourself. (Just be prepared to defend yourself). Youtube has been known to challenge original music. Youtube is all about ad revenue. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Carl312: "Youtube is all about ad revenue"

Hi, Tony, Carl & CS!

That remark of yours, Carl, pretty-much sums it all up! YouTube are just chasing Big Bucks! So much for "social media"! If YouTube are even going to "have a go" at you, even for music you've created yourself, it just seems to me they're trying to make life difficult for their end-users. YouTube may well cop it in the neck at the end, when everyone gets sick and tired of having to justify their use of Smartsound Music, or even their own musical creations and starts dropping off, leaving YouTube without any content, they'll realise too late the folly of their behaviour. As for me, I'm just steering clear of the whole damned mess. And Tony, that's what I've been on about in my previous posts in this thread. Why should I bang my head against a brick wall, trying to negotiate the legal "niceties(?)" of music that's supposed to be "cleared" for such use but still gets challenged? It's just not worth all the grief!

Cheers!

Neil.

Just be glad your not making tutorials that you want to post for everyone to see Neil !

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Quote: Just be glad your not making tutorials that you want to post for everyone to see Neil !

CS

Yeah, CS, I've saved myself a heck of a lot of grief there! I've watched some of Ynotfish's PDToots segments, and they, each one that I've seen, have used SmartSound in their audio. I've also seen a few of Maliek Whitaker's PD University tutorials, he fronts the segments himself and uses no music, just a voice-over to explain what he's doing. I wonder of Tony and Maliek have ever "compared notes", as they are both doing the same thing but using different methods.

Cheers!

Neil.

As a great philosopher once said, "Good grief!"

How did we get from SmartSound licensing & YouTube to comparing tutorial makers' methods? Neil - I'd respond to your suggestion if it were in any way loosely related to the topic.

I don't know about Maliek or anyone else, but the PDtoots team has jointly invested $2000+ in SmartSound music. Yes - we use it as it's intended & we do it often.

If others choose to do things differently, that's cool... but it really has nothing to do with this issue.

Cheers - Tony
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Quote: As a great philosopher once said, "Good grief!"

How did we get from SmartSound licensing & YouTube to comparing tutorial makers' methods? Neil - I'd respond to your suggestion if it were in any way loosely related to the topic.

I don't know about Maliek or anyone else, but the PDtoots team has jointly invested $2000+ in SmartSound music. Yes - we use it as it's intended & we do it often.

If others choose to do things differently, that's cool... but it really has nothing to do with this issue.

Cheers - Tony

Hi, Tony!

That philosopher you quoted wouldn't be Charlie Brown* by any chance, would he? ha-ha. (*character in Charles Schulz's "Peanuts" comics). I got there by responding to CS2014's post. I was comparing the tutorials you produce, using SmartSound background music, against those of Maliek Whitaker(is that with one or two t's?)in his PD University tutorial videos, which I'm fairly sure you must've seen as they pop up through these forum pages. You'd have had plenty of chances to see how he presents his tutorials, as contrasted to your method. I wondered if you may have been "slugged" with claims by AdRev on the music you used in making your tutorials, even while you are using the music as it's intended to be used. Clearly you have been, otherwise you'd not have started this thread. A thought had occurred just now as I type this.... Classical music(Bach, Chopin, Beethoven, and suchlike) is deemed as in the "PUBLIC DOMAIN", you could use some of that, perhaps, but then again, mechanical copyright(copyright applying to the physical recording, on CD, cassette or vinyl) might be the bugbear. Still, you might want to look into it.

Cheers!

Neil

Neil, Youtube will still flag public domain music.

I used a USA Navy Band recording of America the Beautiful which is Public Domain. Youtube flagged it.

https://archive.org/details/AmericaTheBeautiful Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Quote: Neil, Youtube will still flag public domain music.

I used a USA Navy Band recording of America the Beautiful which is Public Domain. Youtube flagged it.

https://archive.org/details/AmericaTheBeautiful

Hi Carl!

Guess that shows ya just can't take a trick with that YouTube lot! But then again I did mention "mechanical copyright" which is different to, and separate from sheet music copyright. Mechanical copyright covers the actual physical recording of a performance, be it on vinyl LP, vinyl 45rpm single, cassette or digitally recorded onto compact disc. I'm not actually sure how long the copyright perod is supposed to be(perhaps it's, the lifetime of the performer[s] then 50 years past their deaths). Sheet Music Copyright applies to the printed version of the music, which any competant musician can perform at home, when the copyright lapses there, it becomes public domain, but if a recorded version is made, then the mechanical copyright provisions apply. case in point, Roy Orbison's 1963 recording of Steven Foster's "Beautiful Dreamer". The song itself had long been public domain but Orbison's recording in 1963 has a mechanical copyright that still applies. Anyone at all can sing the song without incurring a royalty claim from ASCAP, BMI, SESAC or any other copyright protection agency, but Sony Music still holds the mechanical copyright on the recording when it bought up the backlists of Fred Foster's ailing, failing Monument Record company.

Cheers!

Neil.

I am curious how YouTube analytically decides a piece of music is copyrighted and should be taken down.

If you should run a truly copyrighted song thru, say, Audacity to subtly change it pitch, speed, or tempo will YouTube still spot this?

How about if you edit small parts of the tune to run backwards?

Quote: I am curious how YouTube analytically decides a piece of music is copyrighted and should be taken down.

If you should run a truly copyrighted song thru, say, Audacity to subtly change it pitch, speed, or tempo will YouTube still spot this?

How about if you edit small parts of the tune to run backwards?

Ummm, interesting idea, who's going to try it first

I've also had a "bit of bother" with music on a couple of videos I've made for YouTube. They are all licensed and above board but the claim was made that they were from entirley different tracks. For example I used calm, pastoral type musac and the claim was that they were from a well known Rock Band at that time. Needless to say that the dispute was recognised in my favour

Tony, just keep making tyour great tuts.

Cheers

Dave I just want to edit and make pictures, walk my dog and go fishing.

Quote: I am curious how YouTube analytically decides a piece of music is copyrighted and should be taken down.

If you should run a truly copyrighted song thru, say, Audacity to subtly change it pitch, speed, or tempo will YouTube still spot this?

How about if you edit small parts of the tune to run backwards?

From Youtube help.

How Content ID works:

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2797370?hl=en Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Hi, everybody!

This YouTube copyright saga, it's all a big pain in the whatsit!(backside, arse, rear end.... and so on) If YouTube keep going on the way they are, no-one's going to want to put anyhing up on their "channel", with or without music. YouTube will have scared off their contributors! Then they will be the losers.

Cheers!

Neil.

Further research on this produced some enlightening info:

"While Google have ever publicly disclosed how Content ID works, the technology is actually licensed from a company called Audible Magic: http://www.audiblemagic.com/ - essentially the technology works similar to that of major music finding apps like Shazzam or Soundhound. "

from https://www.quora.com/Does-Content-ID-look-for-a-match-of-the-actual-code-or-a-match-of-the-audio-produced-by-the-code

But check all the hard work done by Scott Smitelli in his "Fun with YouTube’s Audio Content ID System":

http://www.scottsmitelli.com/articles/youtube-audio-content-id

This is from 2009, but if still applicable, shows you can outwit YouTube by using Audacity to alter the music speed or pitch by 6% in either direction or knocking the song out of phase.

It's not clear what would happen if, instead, you inserted tiny gaps of silence in the unadulterated recording, a la Cinevia for films, or reversed only a handful of small unimportant music slivers, a la the end of 'Strawberry Fields Forever'.