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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Is it possible for an audio track to not be normalized?
I downloaded a music video from You Tube, used Pazera to extract the audio. I then tried to get the volume of that track to match the volume of 23 other audio tracks. So far, no success. Here's some background.
I'm using an HP desktop, Win 10, i7 360Hz, 16mb mem, 1tb hdd, Chrome.
I've downloaded a playlist with 24 music videos. I've used Pazera to extract the audio on all 24. Because all 24 have different playback volumes, I used MP3 GainGUI normalize them. All normalized except one. So, I used AVS Audio Editor to normalize. No luck. I then used auto correction. Still no luck. I then used Audacity. Same result.
Desperate, I installed the free version of Cyberlink Audio Director. Tried to amplify. Didn't happen. I then clicked Normalize. Didn't happen.
In all above instances, when I clicked on the Play in each instance, the clip was loud. However, when I click on Save or Produce, then go to the saved/produced link, still original volume.
So, my question - is it possible that an audio clip cannot be modified?
If you need amplifying info, let me know. I'm ready to delete that clip.
Any ideas/suggestions appreciated.
Jack Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4955 Offline
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Maybe this will help you about normalize in PD. https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/78569.page#post_box_322431

Jeff
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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Quote Maybe this will help you about normalize in PD. https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/78569.page#post_box_322431

Jeff

Thank you Jeff for your response. Clicked on your link. Let me see if I got it straight.
Once I "normalize" all the clips then I can check to see if any are still lower in playback vollume and if so, open those links and with the horizontal line adjust the volume up. If so, determining how much to increase is a "crap shoot". Adjust and check until you get them close. Is that right?
If so, it doesn't work. I imported the clip that has been bugging me. It's already normalized so, I go to the horizontal line below the clip and increase it to 4.78db. (Curious as to what the volume keys are. Couldn't find that).
When I play it on AD, yup, it's loud.
Produce it and when I click Save it asks if I want to overwrite existing file. Yes.
Go to the file where the clip is, volume still low.
In my other efforts I've run the 24 clips through MP3Gain, target db is 89.0. I then do a track analysis and it adjusts the tracks to that db. Then, because it's a playlist, I then do an album gain. All tracks are then set at 88.6. Still low tracks all others right on.
I'm pretty sure I'm not understanding your link. So, please tell me where I'm wrong.
Thanks for your help.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 19. 2021 15:50

Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4955 Offline
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The PD "Normalize" works on the selected clips to adjust gain between clips, it's not applicable to a single clip as there is nothing to normalize, the gain is what it is and could be lowered or raised but not normalized.

In the attached pic, track 2 is the original clips. Notice the very low audio level of the middle clip. So if I'd just produce track 2 one would have clip 1 that maybe sounds normal, clip 2, very soft, clip 3 a little bit of a volume boost. When one selects all 3 clips and uses the "Normalize" feature you can see the gain of clip 2 was increased significantly, clip 3 was actually lowered a little, these are shown in track 1. Now all 3 of these clips will have the same level when played (i.e. normalized), no longer normal, soft, boost as was previous. If you find that this normalized volume is too low overall on track 1, use the horizontal slider to boost the gain of the entire track. All clips are normalized to each other so you don't want to tweak a clip independently, hence the horizontal slider to adjust the whole track gain.

Jeff
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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Quote The PD "Normalize" works on the selected clips to adjust gain between clips, it's not applicable to a single clip as there is nothing to normalize, the gain is what it is and could be lowered or raised but not normalized.

In the attached pic, track 2 is the original clips. Notice the very low audio level of the middle clip. So if I'd just produce track 2 one would have clip 1 that maybe sounds normal, clip 2, very soft, clip 3 a little bit of a volume boost. When one selects all 3 clips and uses the "Normalize" feature you can see the gain of clip 2 was increased significantly, clip 3 was actually lowered a little, these are shown in track 1. Now all 3 of these clips will have the same level when played (i.e. normalized), no longer normal, soft, boost as was previous. If you find that this normalized volume is too low overall on track 1, use the horizontal slider to boost the gain of the entire track. All clips are normalized to each other so you don't want to tweak a clip independently, hence the horizontal slider to adjust the whole track gain.

Jeff

Ah so. I see you are using Power Director. Hadn't thought of that. I've been using Audio Director after everything else failed.
Let me try that. Actually, I'm about to delete that clip along with the others that are too low. Not worth the effort.
I'll be back and give an update on how good I am at following directions.
Thanks

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 19. 2021 17:08

Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4955 Offline
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Quote Ah so. I see you are using Power Director. Hadn't thought of that. I've been using Audio Director after everything else failed.
Let me try that. Actually, I'm about to delete that clip along with the others that are too low. Not worth the effort.
I'll be back and give an update on how good I am at following directions.
Thanks

The concept in AD is about the same as shown in attached pic, just not as easy working with multiple clips as you have to bring them in. You can see similar effects here, Track 1 original, Track 2 normalized. Here things are normalized to the lower level so I would potentially have to boost the gain of the entire track or during playback I'd have to turn up the volume vs typical. Both clips are normalized to each other so I don't have to constantly adjust the volume knob though.

Jeff
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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Quote

The concept in AD is about the same as shown in attached pic, just not as easy working with multiple clips as you have to bring them in. You can see similar effects here, Track 1 original, Track 2 normalized. Here things are normalized to the lower level so I would potentially have to boost the gain of the entire track or during playback I'd have to turn up the volume vs typical. Both clips are normalized to each other so I don't have to constantly adjust the volume knob though.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. As usual more absolutely irreplaceable info.
I deleted all my original video clips and was working with just audio clips. I have some new video clips but they have foreign titles so I'll have to do some translating which is a bummer. Once I get that done, I'm going to play with them and PD and I'm also gonna play with the audio clips on AD. I'm determined to get this done come Hell or high water. I'm not a quitter and can't accept "it can't be done". As I used to teach in the military, where there's a will, there's a way.
Will update this later. Time to get the thinking cap on.
Again, thanks a million Jeff. Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4955 Offline
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Just remember, when you do this in AD, if you normalize a single audio clip in just the "Edit" mode by selecting both channels, you are essentially balancing the left and right channels of that clip if stereo audio. Not really something one typically wants to do as that's what creates part of the stereo atmosphere. If you select more than one clip in the "Mix" area as I showed in the AD pic I attached, you are normalizing between clips. In PD, since L/R audio channels are never separated or exposed to the editor, you can't normalize a single audio source as I described prior. PD can only normalize the multiple audio files selected.

I think with the PD pic I provided and the pre and post effects I showed after normalize, you'll get by just fine with your clips, be it just audio or combined audio/video clips. Just remember to select all clips simultaneously that you want to normalize. If you add a clip that significantly different audio level and need to re-normalize, you need to select every audio clip you want in the normalization task again.

Jeff
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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Quote Just remember, when you do this in AD, if you normalize a single audio clip in just the "Edit" mode by selecting both channels, you are essentially balancing the left and right channels of that clip if stereo audio. Not really something one typically wants to do as that's what creates part of the stereo atmosphere. If you select more than one clip in the "Mix" area as I showed in the AD pic I attached, you are normalizing between clips. In PD, since L/R audio channels are never separated or exposed to the editor, you can't normalize a single audio source as I described prior. PD can only normalize the multiple audio files selected.

I think with the PD pic I provided and the pre and post effects I showed after normalize, you'll get by just fine with your clips, be it just audio or combined audio/video clips. Just remember to select all clips simultaneously that you want to normalize. If you add a clip that significantly different audio level and need to re-normalize, you need to select every audio clip you want in the normalization task again.

Jeff

Got it. I think. Kidding. Gonna be a test of my patience. Looking forward to it though, I like a challenge. I know I willl be referring to your comments a lot. That's why I printed them
Appreciate your interest and help.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 19. 2021 20:28

Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Quote

Got it. I think. Kidding. Gonna be a test of my patience. Looking forward to it though, I like a challenge. I know I willl be referring to your comments a lot. That's why I printed them
Appreciate your interest and help.

Hello Jeff. Well, here's the update I promised.
My whole reason for this project was to have music to play in my car. Real frustrating to have to play with the volume dial all the time.
Used PD to get the volume levels pretty much the same. However, ran into a couple "pot holes". Don't know if I did it right or not.
Did one playlist of 24 audio clips. Mostly as a test. Have four more playlists with about 100 clips.
Imported the clips, opened mixer and then normalized. Found three that were a little lower so used the mixer to bring the volume up a bit. Got everything done, didn't know how to save everything so went to Produce. The only option there was AVI. Took a real long time to produce.
Plugge-in my USB, found my AVI file and clicked copy/paste. Nope. Too big. So, opened AVS Audio converter and converted it to MP3 then copy/paste to USB.
Very tedious way of doing something. Plus, now all I have is a long MP3 file with no individual clips. Guess I'll just live with that. At least the volume is the same on all clips.
If I did something wrong, let me know.
I have a question that is different but related to the same problem.
When I made up the playlists, I had to translate the titles andt he computer alphabetized them. I then numbered them sequentially. The strange thing is, when I import them into other software, and the player in my car, they do not load in numerical sequence. Any idea why that is? Is there something I can do to fix it?Thanks for your interest and help.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jul 20. 2021 17:00

Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 4955 Offline
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Yes, that does sound all so tedious. Remember you can use PD to "Produce" just an audio track by clicking the two audio notes in the "Produce" window. Underneath the two notes you have some controls for different types of audio files and then you have the quality option too for audio bitrate. This at least can prevent the big AVI file and conversion step. PD is really tedious to produce each individual clip, you simply have to mark off each clip manually and "Produce" after the normalize of all audio files on the same video track.

Since it sounds like you are starting with audio clips. Have not thought about it much, but why not just use Windows Media Player and burn a CD if the intent is car listening? You have automatic track normalizing then too as shown in pic. One can then easily rip and put audio files on USB stick if desired.

I believe your tack order issue is just one of detail. I’m not exactly sure what your pic is from, but you probably need to preface each file with like 01-xxx, 02-xxx, 99-xxx, a "29. Yod Ra" vs "3. Whose" may not be enough to sort properly but a 29 and 03 could be.

Jeff
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boongsong [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Location: Arvin, CA Joined: May 18, 2010 14:48 Messages: 470 Offline
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Quote Yes, that does sound all so tedious. Remember you can use PD to "Produce" just an audio track by clicking the two audio notes in the "Produce" window. Underneath the two notes you have some controls for different types of audio files and then you have the quality option too for audio bitrate. This at least can prevent the big AVI file and conversion step. PD is really tedious to produce each individual clip, you simply have to mark off each clip manually and "Produce" after the normalize of all audio files on the same video track.

Since it sounds like you are starting with audio clips. Have not thought about it much, but why not just use Windows Media Player and burn a CD if the intent is car listening? You have automatic track normalizing then too as shown in pic. One can then easily rip and put audio files on USB stick if desired.

I believe your tack order issue is just one of detail. I’m not exactly sure what your pic is from, but you probably need to preface each file with like 01-xxx, 02-xxx, 99-xxx, a "29. Yod Ra" vs "3. Whose" may not be enough to sort properly but a 29 and 03 could be.

Jeff

Thanks for the reply.
I got a lot of learning to do yet. I'm not gonna give up on it just yet.
The reason I want to put them on USB is I can import them to the player. I can then play them as they come up or select playlist. If I use CD there is no way to store them in the player. And I have to keep CDs in the car. It's just a personal thing.
To be honeat with you, the only reason I'm doing this is because I have nothing else to do. It's just "make work" to give me something to keep from being bored to death.
As always, I really appreciate your expertise and interest in my problems.
Have a nice evening.
Jack Jack
PD 14.0.2302.0 HP h8-1280t, Intel Core i7-3820, CPU 3.60Hzm 64-bit, 10GB mem, 1 TB hard drive
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