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Keyframe quirk in PD17
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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I've been away for a while, but I'm involved in video work again and am using DS365/PD17 for a big project. I like the new editor features, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had any problems using keyframes.

I've noticed that sometimes one will disappear if I create a new one nearby, mostly when I'm editing an existing series of position changes generated by the Motion Tracker tool, but I haven't figured out yet if the problem is repeatable.

As I started recording my screen to investigate, I ran into a different keyframe problem that's very easy to see and repeat. Here's a video that shows the problem along with the steps needed to repeat the conditions. Does anyone else see this behavior, and is the forum still an appropriate place for tech issues like this?


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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PowerDirector Tutorials
Senior Member Private Message Location: Tennessee Joined: Sep 29, 2014 20:25 Messages: 152 Offline
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Looks like a bug to me. PowerDirector Tutorials Team
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PowerDirector Moderator
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 741 Offline
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Quote I've been away for a while, but I'm involved in video work again and am using DS365/PD17 for a big project. I like the new editor features, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had any problems using keyframes.

I've noticed that sometimes one will disappear if I create a new one nearby, mostly when I'm editing an existing series of position changes generated by the Motion Tracker tool, but I haven't figured out yet if the problem is repeatable.

As I started recording my screen to investigate, I ran into a different keyframe problem that's very easy to see and repeat. Here's a video that shows the problem along with the steps needed to repeat the conditions. Does anyone else see this behavior, and is the forum still an appropriate place for tech issues like this?




Hi,

I get the same issue on DS365 PDR2029.

As you indicate once the keyframe adjustment is past the top clip, it works. Interestingly if the keyframes are adjusted away from the top clip, and re-placed below it (as normal) the motion works fine as expected.

I haven't tested all the combos but the opacity works fine, it seems only the position keyframes are affected.

I will raise it with CL.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


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Longedge [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Apr 28, 2011 15:38 Messages: 1504 Offline
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Never noticed it before but this happens in my PDR15 so it's not new.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote
Hi,

I get the same issue on DS365 PDR2029.

As you indicate once the keyframe adjustment is past the top clip, it works. Interestingly if the keyframes are adjusted away from the top clip, and re-placed below it (as normal) the motion works fine as expected.

I haven't tested all the combos but the opacity works fine, it seems only the position keyframes are affected.

I will raise it with CL.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


Thank you!

Probably on the same note as your findings, if you start with the Track 2 clip underneath one on Track 1 but then drag the Track 1 image position off to 1 side so that some part of it isn't "behind" the Track 2 clip image, then you can adjust the Track 2 image position keyframes normally. The problem only occurs whe the images overlap.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 24. 2018 13:00


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote Never noticed it before but this happens in my PDR15 so it's not new.

The behavior in PD14 is also problematic, but it's very different than in PD17.

There's actually no problem in selecting the clip after making position changes, but keyframes aren't added automatically when the image is moved, and I have to click on the diamond 2 times to get the position to stick the first time. If I click in the keyframe space with the scrubber at a new location, a correct keyframe is added, but if I click on the diamond, the image jumps back to the previous position!

I bring this up because as you said, what I found in PD17 isn't a new problem and the issues shown in PD14 are very similar to the hard to duplicate issues I'm having when dealing with lots of keyframes in PD17. Basically, fundamental properties like persistance, activation and independence are not reliable, and the cause clearly seems to lie deep in the core keyframe code.

I really hope someone at Cyberlink can look into that module and either rewrite it from scratch or do a rigorous code review and fix the fundamental ambiguities in it. That would make a significant improvement to PD17's reliablilty!


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9746 Offline
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Hi optodata & all -

I can replicate that easily in PDR17, when editing in the keyframes module/preview screen. Setting keyframes in PiP Designer doesn't show up the same issues. e.g. if I'm editing the clip in T2 it stays selected

Longedge - I can't replicate the same problem in PDR15, following optodata's procedure. While the clip in T2 is being keyframed, it remains active & I don't get that involuntary deselection.

On a related issue, in PDR17's Title Designer, I was editing a template that contained two titles & an background image. The only way I could edit the keyframes of the titles was to disable the background image... e.g. I'd click on a title to reposition it & the background image would become selected.

As optodata states: "Fundamental properties like persistance, activation and independence are not reliable."

Cheers - Tony
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote Hi optodata & all -

I can replicate that easily in PDR17, when editing in the keyframes module/preview screen. Setting keyframes in PiP Designer doesn't show up the same issues. e.g. if I'm editing the clip in T2 it stays selected...

Cheers - Tony


Thanks Tony! I'll also try that as a workaround if I see that other odd keyframe behaviour I'd mentioned earlier.

It seems like different code is used for almost identical functions in several places in PD. I guess the upside is that one module/approach may work perfectly, or at least not suffer the same issues as a similar module/approach.
youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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