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Andres.R
Senior Member Private Message Location: Tartu, Estonia Joined: Dec 31, 2009 02:26 Messages: 263 Offline
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Hi guys,
probably I dont know something, but when I insert the 2nd project, I get this like on capture. But when I open this 2nd one separatelly, everything is ok
What should I do to get still project to edit, not PDS?
Thanks
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 23. 2018 07:08

PowerDirector 17. Windows 10
Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 (8M Cache, up to 3.90 GHz); Hard Disk: SSD 250Gb + SSD 500GB.

My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndresRootsi
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Andres.R
Senior Member Private Message Location: Tartu, Estonia Joined: Dec 31, 2009 02:26 Messages: 263 Offline
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Good morning,
seems, no one dont have such problem as I have? Probably I need to contact with CL customer service, lets see, what they have to say...
Just in case I made a video too:

PowerDirector 17. Windows 10
Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 (8M Cache, up to 3.90 GHz); Hard Disk: SSD 250Gb + SSD 500GB.

My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndresRootsi
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PowerDirector Moderator [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 1649 Offline
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Quote Hi guys,
probably I dont know something, but when I insert the 2nd project, I get this like on capture. But when I open this 2nd one separatelly, everything is ok
What should I do to get still project to edit, not PDS?
Thanks


Hi,
As far as I can see the new nested project feature has a certain logic to it that is crucial.

The concept is that a "main" project can have previously edited separate sub-projects inserted.

However, once inserted these "sub-projects" become part of the main project and they lose their separate identity.

The "original" sub-projects remain as originals - perhaps to be used again in another project - typically this might be an intro/outro, or some sort of content divider that requires some editing to fit each project.

So, once inserted, any edits done to the sub-projects do not change the original, only the inserted copy and they are saved etc. as part of the main project.

So, workflow might go like this :

  • Devise the main project

  • Open it

  • Insert sub-project 1

  • It appears as a single video clip with a pds icon - as in your screen cap.

  • At the same time another tab menu appears above the timelines with the main project and the sub-project as separate tabs.

  • Double click on the sub-project tab and the sub-project is "expanded" to become a fully editable project (as if it were the original .pds)

  • Edit as necessary.

  • Any edits cannot be saved separately - so the original copy of the sub-project remains unaltered.

  • Return to the main project by clicking the main project tab

  • The sub-project reverts to being a "single video clip" but with the new edits

  • The new main project can then be saved, complete with the new sub-project edits.



You will note that the original sub-project is unaltered in name and content.
The inserted sub-project is altered in content, because it has been edited, but it still retains the original name. I cannot find a way of altering that name, so a degree of confusion might arise at some stage??

Conversely, any edits carried out on the original sub-project are not incorporated into the main project, unless the already inserted sub-project is first deleted and then the "newly edited original" sub-project is re-inserted.

I have to admit to not having fully explored all options here, but that seems to be the bones of how it all works. I think, in the right workflow, it will be a very useful function, but it may not quite function as folk initially expect?

Anyone else care to chip in??

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


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PepsiMan
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Clarksville, TN Joined: Dec 29, 2010 01:20 Messages: 1054 Offline
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Quote ...

I have to admit to not having fully explored all options here, but that seems to be the bones of how it all works. I think, in the right workflow, it will be a very useful function, but it may not quite function as folk initially expect?

... PowerDirector Moderator

you've nailed it.
i can hear Andre's scream all the way across the big pond. why fix it when it's not broken!

my suggestions to Andre is to open a request to CL to fix and or modify the insert project functions.

a work around is what PowerDirector Moderator has posted...

Quote ...

any edits carried out on the original sub-project are not incorporated into the main project, unless the already inserted sub-project is first deleted and then the "newly edited original" sub-project is re-inserted. ...


or you'll see a lot of black/blank portions of the videos within the edited-inserted sub-project.

oh happy happy joy joy

PepsiMan
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Andres.R
Senior Member Private Message Location: Tartu, Estonia Joined: Dec 31, 2009 02:26 Messages: 263 Offline
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Hi PD Moderator and Pepsiman,
thanks for helping!
All worked as Moderator descirbes, but its just a temporary solution.
I do as Pepsiman suggest, open a request to CL to fix it
Wish you all a nice evening (at least here it is )
Andres
P.S. I let you know, how it solved PowerDirector 17. Windows 10
Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 (8M Cache, up to 3.90 GHz); Hard Disk: SSD 250Gb + SSD 500GB.

My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndresRootsi
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Andres.R
Senior Member Private Message Location: Tartu, Estonia Joined: Dec 31, 2009 02:26 Messages: 263 Offline
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No offence, but how CL has developed this "Inserting the 2nd project", this is the stupidest thing. Old one was much much better
Just as a remark.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 25. 2018 00:14

PowerDirector 17. Windows 10
Processor: Intel Core i7-4770 (8M Cache, up to 3.90 GHz); Hard Disk: SSD 250Gb + SSD 500GB.

My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndresRootsi
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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I just tried out nesting a project and found another significant limitation.

If the nested project is "complete" - that is if you would get exactly what you want by producing it - then it works as expected when you place the nested project on the timeline.

However, if the content in the nested project is meant to be overlaid on an upper track (via chroma-keying or actual transparency), PD will only show the nested project's "active" content on a black screen, even when it's placed below another clip like this:



This is what the nested project looks like when expanded (except the Track 1 clip is not included)



Unfortunately, the complete video isolation isn't just a previewing limitation. PD makes no attempt to integrate the nested project into the main video when producing, and the finished video of the nested project section only has the active content on a black background, just like the preview shows.

I'm sure that's the way it's designed, but it is a serious limitation in terms of usability.

YouTube/optodata


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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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This last issue is still present in 17.0.2514.2

I've created a simple test project (download it from here), and if someone can kindly verify that the nested project title shows up on a black screen when previewing and producing rather than being overlaid on the track 1 video, I'll report it to Cyberlink.

The nested project is a simple title with the number 0 that's 1 sec long, and placed 4 seconds in. This is what I expect you'll see:





Interestingly, if you place the Skateboard video on track 1 of the nested project, the text is properly applied when previewing/producing the main project with the nested video showing "over" the main timeline content (as was also the case in my above post from Nov.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 11. 2019 11:37



YouTube/optodata


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Philwild [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK Joined: Oct 05, 2017 12:04 Messages: 206 Offline
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Yes, it is as you say.

I downloaded the project and took this screenshot at the titles timestamp.

Regards

Phil
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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Quote Yes, it is as you say. I downloaded the project and took this screenshot at the titles timestamp.

Philwild, thanks very much for taking the time to confirm this issue!

I have reported it under ticket #CS001999619

Since it's easy to replicate, I hope they will be able to include a fix in the next PD17 patch.

YouTube/optodata


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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9894 Offline
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Hi optodata et al -

I'll just chime in to say that exactly the same thing occurs when you insert a nested project that consists of a Particle or Video Overlay/PiP Object.

All is well if it's inserted as an Expanded Project.

I can't think why I'd ever have a project that contained only titles, particles or overlays.

Cheers - Tony
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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Quote Hi optodata et al -

I'll just chime in to say that exactly the same thing occurs when you insert a nested project that consists of a Particle or Video Overlay/PiP Object.

All is well if it's inserted as an Expanded Project.

I can't think why I'd ever have a project that contained only titles, particles or overlays.

Cheers - Tony

Thanks for the helpful update! It's a bit surprising that the Expanded Project mode also doesn't work, but that's what I see when I try it over here, too. I think the whole nested project concept needs a little more attention.

As for your closing statement, I got involved in this today due to this post, and when I saw that my test project of 300 titles didn't work with my clips, I simplified everything to the test project. Of course, Death by Titles is another (hopefully uncommon) reason for trying nested projects with only titles.

YouTube/optodata


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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9894 Offline
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Quote: It's a bit surprising that the Expanded Project mode also doesn't work


BUT

Quote: All is well if it's inserted as an Expanded Project


When I say "All is well", I mean the same black screen issue doen't occur. The title/particle/overlay behaves as it should.

Cheers - Tony
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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Quote
Quote: It's a bit surprising that the Expanded Project mode also doesn't work


BUT

Quote: All is well if it's inserted as an Expanded Project


When I say "All is well", I mean the same black screen issue doen't occur. The title/particle/overlay behaves as it should.

Cheers - Tony

Oh, I completely misread that sentence! Take a look at what happens when I try it and you'll see why I though you DID have the issue:



So you see the Expanded Project work normally on your machines?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 11. 2019 22:26



YouTube/optodata


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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9894 Offline
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Yes - here nested projects like the ones we've been discussing do not display as expected BUT with preferences set to "Expanded", display is correct.



Arguably, it's not an intended purpose of "Insert Project" to create multi-track overlaid projects... rather build up a main project by inserting sub-projects. Just thinking out loud.

Cheers - Tony
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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Thanks for the claryifying video, Tony!

Even though I thought had set my inserted project mode to expanded, it's pretty apparent in my earlier screenshot that it was nested on the timeline. I have now double checked, and when the inserted project is actually in expanded mode, only the contents are placed on the timeline, and as in your video, they behave normally. Sorry for the mixup!

I also agree with your thinking out load sentiment. However, since I have had a couple of instances where using a nested project in this way would be helpful, I'm trying to get clarification by posting here and submitting a bug report.

For example, if CL responds by saying something like nested projects can only be used to hold "primary" content - as in whatever is in them takes the place of main timeline content, and doesn't interact with it/can't be overlaid on it - then I'd suggest that nested projects only be allowed on Track 1. Main timeline content on tracks below the nested project DO interact with it:



On the other hand, if nested projects are supposed to interact (which is what I had expected), then maybe there's a bug. Either way I'm hoping to resolve the current ambiguity (at least as it exists in my mind )

YouTube/optodata


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PowerDirector Moderator [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 1649 Offline
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My latest info is that the nested project function is being redeveloped. It is a complex function, especially given the feedback from users about the way they would like to see it work, and also how it would work with other features, such as Blending Mode.

With this in mind, it is a more complex development project than just a quick fix, and will be updated in a future release. The insert project preference was added as a temporary workaround for users in the meantime.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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Quote My latest info is that the nested project function is being redeveloped. It is a complex function, especially given the feedback from users about the way they would like to see it work, and also how it would work with other features, such as Blending Mode.

With this in mind, it is a more complex development project than just a quick fix, and will be updated in a future release. The insert project preference was added as a temporary workaround for users in the meantime.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

That's very helpful. Thank you for the "inside" scoop ;)

YouTube/optodata


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bitbyter [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jul 12, 2018 08:51 Messages: 15 Offline
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Four years later, Tony's video helped me since there doesn't seem to be any improvement to nesting projects! At the very least, when you click on Insert Project the option to select Nested or Expended would at least get people to investigate the difference and save a lot of headaches! Thanks for the discussion guys! Cheers, Scott
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