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360 Video Editing
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DIYDarren [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Sep 18, 2016 11:21 Messages: 2 Offline
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Good day! Seems I might be one of only a few people who is attempting to do 360 degree video editing with the software.

There is a big mystery/miss that I can't figure out, and wondering if anyone else has found a solution. Basically, one of the biggest "edits" to do in 360 degree video is to change the viewing direction within the 360 degree sphere. For example, if I recorded the video and then found out that something cool was happening at 90 degrees from the "default" view, I might want to trim and edit the video so that the viewer is facing that point at the beginning of the clip.

So far I have tried to discuss with "customer service", but I don't think they've ever seen a 360 video so don't understand what I am asking and just giving me canned answers.

Without this abilityto direct the viewing angle, the software is essentially useless for 360 editing...

(Yes, there is the "view designer" feature, but this takes the 360 video and shows you only a 2D window from it, and once you enter that mode the video is no longer 360).

Just wondering if anyone has any insights!

Thanks!

Darren
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9915 Offline
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Hi Darren -

I'm responding mainly because I'd like to understand 360° editing better... not because I have the answer to your concern.

My (so far) limited understanding is that the videos are stitched together to allow the viewer to determine the point of view. i.e the editor doesn't decide.

There's a very good chance that I've completely misunderstood what you're saying, so I'm happy to be corrected.

Cheers - Tony
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DIYDarren [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Sep 18, 2016 11:21 Messages: 2 Offline
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Hi Tony,

Thanks for the follow-up, always good to chat, never know what ideas may come up.

Yes you are correct that in theory the viewer can choose to look in any direction within the 360 degree sphere that they please. And yes, trying to "move" this around probably could lead to all kinds of disorienting effects.

However from a practical standpoint there always is a "starting" view. And that is typically what is used for thumbnails, and is the first thing people are seeing when they encounter the video. Kind of like a scrolling webpage that has content that you see first at the top. And there is a risk that stuff at the bottom gets lost or never seen unless prompted somehow. With the 360 videos, you may lose your viewer before they even realize something cool is happening out of their initial field of view. And the field of view in facebook, youtube, and even in the headsets such as oculus or Samsung gear probably only shows 1/8th of the total sphere of video. So its easy to "miss" something cool in the scene if you aren't somehow directed to it.

I can imagine especially in some unplanned or impromptu videos that catch something unexpected that may occur 90 degrees or 180 agrees from the intended subject, that THAT may end up being more interesting than what was planned.

I've been working on this all day, with a few different leads as to solutions to the problem. 1. Facebook as part of their encoding and processing gives you a choice to set the initial view that they will display. 2. Youtube does not. 3. Adobe Premiere has a tool that will allow you to change the position (and even rotate it mid-video), but only in the horizontal axis 4. I just can't find that functionality in PowerDirector 15, am doubtful it is in there.

Lastly I've got a lead that you may be able to edit the metadata package for the 360 video to include tags that set that initial view. Which could solve at least that part of it.

Thanks for your response and hopefully this is somewhat helpful.

Have a great week!

Darren
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ynotfish
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9915 Offline
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There you go Darren -

You posted the question and you've helped me understand it better. Now I see what you mean. Good information you're digging up there. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I can't reciprocate embarassed

Cheers - Tony
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Hi Darren,
360 video does not have standard format so far so there is no common solution to set the view point, currently the only way to do that is setting view point by player just like Facebook does but it's post editing after uploading.

Maybe one day there will be a new video format can embed view angle settings just like embedding subtitles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 20. 2016 04:52

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markv123 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 11, 2016 15:03 Messages: 2 Offline
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Hi Darren,

The same question here. I have some 360 clips as from each clip I want to change the center starting position of each clip. I just bougth the sofware asuming that this is a basic function of the software.

I have a lot of clips and not every clip is filmed in the right direction and as you mentioned, sometimes I want the viewer to see something which will ocure at 90 degrees and so put it in the center.

my question. did you find a solution already? otherwise the software is not usefull

hope to hear

gr markv
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MacGyverGTP [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 18, 2017 13:05 Messages: 1 Offline
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This video is a perfect example of what we are trying to accomplish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fakCY9si7Ig&t=956s



This guy used Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2017 with the Mettle Skybox 360/VR tools plugin to accomplish it.

We should be able to do the same in Cyberlink PowerDirector 15

I like being able to direct the viewer where the interesting parts of the video are while still allowing them to look where they want.

I purchased the PowerDirector 15 upgrade simply because of it's 360 editing ability.

Please advise when there is a solution to this basic 360 problem.

Thanks,

-Sean
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kingqueen [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 09, 2017 22:35 Messages: 4 Offline
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Quote I like being able to direct the viewer where the interesting parts of the video are while still allowing them to look where they want.

I purchased the PowerDirector 15 upgrade simply because of it's 360 editing ability.

Please advise when there is a solution to this basic 360 problem.




Me too.

This seems like an absolute fundamental ability for 360 video, and a product claiming it does 360 video that doesn't actually do that is being disingenuous.

I guess that's partly why PowerDirector 15 is so much cheaper than professional editing software. I can put up with the clunky UI, the inability to render previews of sped-up footage (on my relatively high end PC that copes fine showing such in e.g. GoPro Studio), the disk thrashing when dealing with 4 PIPs, the 30 minute rendering of a 6 minute 2560x1280 360 video, the crashes, the Russian Roulette as to which effects, enhancements, transitions etc work well in 360° and so on, and put it down to my use of consumer priced and oriented software.

But the inability to specify an initial viewing direction for each 360° clip is so fundamental. It's not just setting it for the whole video: it's for each clip that's used in the video. Having no ability to ensure that the same object or same direction is in the same direction from clip to clip is so fundamental, this is a big lack.
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CLD [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Mar 23, 2007 02:05 Messages: 925 Offline
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Hello,

I have seen these kind of post before and don't see what is "fundamental" about it. For example, I checked out MacGyverGTP's example video and had changed the view myself (which is the freedom of 360 videos) to look at the view, and then it was auto changed by the video file to this (see changedview.jpg).

Sounds like you are assuming that your viewer will just sit there and not change the view, which especially won't happen if they are watching with a VR headset. Auto moving the video when someone has a VR headset on would be very disconcerting I would think.

Better to get creative and give them a visual (text or arrow) or audio indicator that they should look a specific direction. Or use the View Designer to change the direction of view, which takes away the user's freedom of view.

David
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kingqueen [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 09, 2017 22:35 Messages: 4 Offline
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Quote Sounds like you are assuming that your viewer will just sit there and not change the view, which especially won't happen if they are watching with a VR headset.

...

Or use the View Designer to change the direction of view, which takes away the user's freedom of view.


No, that's not what's being suggested at all.

I'm making a video at the moment. It begins with a clip of me going down a hill in my wheelchair, doing a wheelie at speed. There's a pretty title on the side looking down the hill, and on the other side there's a close-up of my nose, which is enough to put anybody off watching the video. So I'd like to have the video start with the view downhill rather than up my nose. Then if the viewer chooses, they're very welcome to change to looking up my nose, and good luck to them!

Later in the video, I'm recording a trip in a golf buggy going through a forest. The camera is off the front right of the buggy. The trip lasted hours so I have cut it down to several clips of hopefully more interesting bits of the trip. Now the problem is each one has a different direction. If one's facing forward in one clip, then in the next one's facing to the right, then in the next one's facing towards the back left, that's not going to be great, is it? For the reasons you describe, forcing change of direction on the viewer isn't good. So I want consistency between the clips. I don't care in what direction the viewer is pointed, but I want that direction to stay the same following a transition to the next clip (relative to the golf buggy.)

So it's not about forcing changes of direction onto the viewer, it's about setting the initial direction and ensuring consistency between clips. Other video packages enable this. This one doesn't. It should.

And the View Designer does something else entirely. I want to create a 360 video, not a standard one.
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CLD [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Mar 23, 2007 02:05 Messages: 925 Offline
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Hello,

Thanks for the more detailed info. I was referring to the video clip the other user shared, where the editor changed the video direction mid clip.

What you are asking for is a way to fix the footage to set the starting view point. Making it more clear that it is for the start of the clip, there is a better chance it may get added.

I suggest posting that request here: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/51512.page

David
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Frankster69 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Apr 13, 2017 13:32 Messages: 68 Offline
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Same question here!

Came across this topic while searching an answer. Indeed, on Facebook I can set the initial viewing angle, and on Youtube I cannot (not that I am aware).

Adobe Premiere seems to be able to do it, and I did come across meta data editing, but that was for 360 images, not video.

Anybody have an idea?

I figured out what my camera thinks is front, and it shows the right angle in the Android app. But after editing that changes to the middle of the equirectangular video, and the initial start angle was to the right of that.

Anyway, if it can be set on Facebook, the possibility to do this exists. Now only how to do it for Youtube or even just VLC player (which can now view 360 video as well).

Ever found a solution?

regards, Frank
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kingqueen [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 09, 2017 22:35 Messages: 4 Offline
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Quote Ever found a solution?


Afraid not. There's apparently no mechanism for setting the initial view of the movie, or of each clip in it
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Aussiemandias [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: May 29, 2017 16:35 Messages: 1 Offline
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Cyberlink are missing a big opportunity to steal customers from Adobe. I have Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2017 and Mettle Skybox VR Tools, not through choice, but because I can't find a product that will allow me to create 2D objects and text in a 360, or allow me to set the initial view or panning.

I don't require anything overly complex in terms of editing, so if Powerdirector offered me the ability to do both, I would ditch Adobe and their expensive subscription model in a heartbeat. Are you reading this Cyberlink?
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mimix1004 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: France Joined: Jun 01, 2017 17:02 Messages: 2 Offline
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same problem... i need this tool ! i have made all of my footage in japan with the front view on the back lens...
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FinnMK [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: Japan Joined: Dec 17, 2014 10:22 Messages: 5 Offline
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Same here. I upgraded from PD 14 to 15 because of the advertised 360 degree video "editing" features. There was no other reason. 15 does not offer any improvement for me except the claimed ability to deal with 360.

Choosing the initial viewing angle is absolutely crucial. On all my 360 degree footage so far the default direction points to my face. The story board looks like it belongs to the project of an egomaniac. I want the viewer to see the mountains and yaks and yurts from my Pakistan trip, not my face!
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DonLandis1 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 15, 2017 03:36 Messages: 1 Offline
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Human Eyes software that comes with the Vuze camera will allow you to set the opening window of view regardless of where the camera's normal forward looking window is located. It is the camera's stitching software for the 8 cameras.

I also have a Giroptic 360 camera and have it marked so I know where to point the forward looking image to use for the start of my video. This might be your only low cost way to accomplish the control of your start view.





Power Director 15 has a nice 360 editing capability, and it also has a nice 3D editor. But I have not figured out if it can do 3D 360 editing. It appears to only render 360 in 2D.
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Bug1973 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 28, 2017 08:31 Messages: 1 Offline
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I have the same problem. I need to choose a starting view point. I think this is really essential for 360 video editing.
And I would also like to have a better preview quality, at least for still image, when I don't play the clip. Now I have problems to see my color changings or blendings. When the Full HD preview expands on 360 it's too blurry and pixelated.
For now I can only use Fotos. They are easier to handle of course. But fotos are in 7776x3888 and the preview is ok. But the moment I put a 4k video clip in, the preview is really bad.
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Frankster69 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Apr 13, 2017 13:32 Messages: 68 Offline
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I'm greatly looking forward to PD 16. It's inevitable there will be significant improvements in 360 editing. Bare in mind this has only been booming in the last year or so, so companies like Cyberlink have some catching up to do.

Pinnacle just came out with their Studio version 21, in which supposedly are significant improvements to 360 editing. They now natively support fisheye and dual fisheye footage for instance. Don't really know what else, but there's more. Cyberlink will definitely not want to lag behind this very long.

Meanwhile, I have a workaround (two, but one is camera dependent) :

What I do is create a duplicate clip exactly below the original, and then just move the clips left/right so the view wraps around and the view direction is changed. This actually works. You can even use Pip Designer to keyframe a panning motion. Make sure what runs out of view in the first clip is brought in view on the other clip so the view keeps lining up and wrapping fully. Creating motion can be a bit fiddly sometimes, if you are not carefull a vertical 'crack' can appear where the two clips meet. But in all my attempts were succesful. The movie is not finished yet, but soon I can show it.

Another workaround goes only for my Kodak Pixpro 4KVR360/Orbit360. In it's desktop software Pixpro VR Suite I can just drag the video left/right to change the initial view direction, or record a pan movement (not so smooth, by hand, no keyframes). This is different then View Designer or Insta360 Studio because the clip remains in 360 here. The VR Suite software only opens files created with the Kodak camera though. Other camera's files are not recognised.

Hope these can help some of you out. I'm pretty sure the next PD version will have this capability built in. If not... hmm... perhaps I need to change
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stevek
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline
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Hi Frankster,

Where did you get all your information? I went to the Pinnacle web site and looked for 360 video. When I then went to the tutorial, it was the 360 Tutorial for the previous version (20). The manual had nothing or little to do with 360. Are you reading the sales releases again? wink

They have a 30 day warranty. Why don't you buy it and tell us about it? You can return it and get your money back.



From wet Houston !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 28. 2017 12:21

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