Announcement: Our new CyberLink Feedback Forum has arrived! Please transfer to our new forum to provide your feedback or to start a new discussion. The content on this CyberLink Community forum is now read only, but will continue to be available as a user resource. Thanks!
CyberLink Community Forum
where the experts meet
| Advanced Search >
PD13 - Resolved - Capturing from VCR Player and Old Sharp 8ViewCam - Dropping Frames like mad
CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
What is happening is pretty much just what the title states.

I have an old VCR - Samsung VR-3604 and a Sharp 8ViewCam VL-E33 video camera, that I am trying to capture some old video from. In the first 30 seconds of the capture recording, I'm getting something in the order of 500 dropped frames. This produces a video clip that is extremely glitchy - obviously.

I am running both camera or player through a 'Dazzle' device (not both together at the same time - one at a time) in order to get it input in to a USB port. My device manager recognizes the Dazzle (DVC 1000) device.

In addition to the video dropping so many frames - I have not heard any audio either. Are there some selections I should be changing - make a custom profile perhaps - in order to resolve this?

Thanks

CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 22. 2016 20:05

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
Do you know the model number of that Dazzle device. I find that in the past pci connected devices worked better than the usb ones for signal strength and tracking. They did make video stabilizers exactly for your problem in the past. Try Windows Movie Maker as the capture device and make sure that the audio cable pairs are connected.

Let us know if this helps.
CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
I misquoted it in the original post - it's a DVC-100 NOT a 1000 Rev 1.1.

If Windows Movie Maker was bundled with the original software, I'll search and find it. If it's not, obviously it wont be there for me to find - and I'll try using it instead of PD.

CS

Edit: searched for Windows MovieMaker and Windows Movie Maker - not part of the bundled software that came with this computer .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 19. 2016 12:08

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
Windows Movie Maker can be found here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/get-movie-maker-download .

The Dazzle DVC-100 had bundled DVD Complete software the way I remembered it. After it was bought out by Pinnacle Systems, they supplied it with Pinnacle Studio old version for capturing which may not be compatible with modern win OS.
CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
I think the Dazzle installed a driver when I plugged it into the USB port. It seems connected but I'm just dropping so many frames after about 5 seconds of playing the vid in the camera, that it's just not a good situation - can't transfer the video over with that kind of drop-rate with any sense of reasonable viewing satisfaction.

Installing Win MM and will see if it allows capture any better.

CS

edit:
All I see is 'webcam video' in MM tomas. I don't see where I can capture any video.

Just may have to break- down and buy something to get the video into a format that I cn then get in to PD.

CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 19. 2016 13:34

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
I am unaware that a 64 bit driver is available for it. It sound like that you were using PD13 for capture. One user got better result by using the DVD-LP capture mode on old material.

Remove the webcam and start the vcr with the video signal going. See if WMM detect it if you reboot the pc after the WMM installation. You did get the software and installation instructions for that device, right? It should tell you how to setup for sound.
CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
I am trying to use PD13 for capture. I saw, I think it was 'Neil's comment there a few days ago about using the LP setting - but I've tried those default settings, and tried to lower the bitrate in a custom profile. Still dropping frames like mad.

I've been using both the video camera and the VCR - both exhibit the same failure process - about 5 seconds of capture and then starts dropping frames like crazy.

Both devices preview fine - it's in the processing of capture that is where all this is occurring. I'll try another reboot but I'm not holding out much hope about MM. We'll see.

Thanks tomas,
CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 19. 2016 14:42

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
[Post New]
Quote: Do you know the model number of that Dazzle device. I find that in the past pci connected devices worked better than the usb ones for signal strength and tracking. They did make video stabilizers exactly for your problem in the past. Try Windows Movie Maker as the capture device and make sure that the audio cable pairs are connected.

Let us know if this helps.


Sorry Tomasc, Windows Movie Maker has no provision for capture from devices like "Dazzle" or any other make of capture card, unless you go back to Windows Movie Maker for Windows XP. For Windows 7, 8, Vista(and likely 10) there is no such provision. As for "dropping frames", CS, the condition of the recording(the tape itself) has a lot to do with frame drops, particularly old tapes that are often-payed and are starting to wear out, so it's fortunate you're getting them converted now before your source tapes get completely "knackered". I know this from transferring old VHS and Video-8/Hi-8 tape content myself, the better the tape condition, the better the transfer(with less frame drops).

Cheers!

Neil.
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
[Post New]
Hi, Tomasc and CS2014,

Excuse me a moment while I grab this towel to wipe the egg of my face! Yeah, I found the capture set-up hidden away in "Options - Audio/Video, but still haven't sussed out how to get the actual capture process going(usually a red button, or similar appears to initiate/stop the capture). Still, I'm not a "fan" of Windows Movie Maker. Would much rather use Power Director for such work as extracting content from older sources such as videocassettes(in whichever format).

Cheers!

(a slightly embarrassed) Neil.
Fenman
Senior Contributor Location: Cambridge, UK Joined: Nov 24, 2011 04:44 Messages: 731 Offline
[Post New]
I haven't captured analog video for years when I used one of the original Pinnacle cards that encoded in MJPEG. I tried doing a search for the Dazzle technical specs but couldn't find what encoding it uses. I assume it's MPEG but no idea of the bitrate. However I did find this review summary and thought it might illuminate the discussion:-



Regards,
Mike

Home-build system:
Intel Core i5 Quad Core 3.3GHz, 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333MHz,
Asus Nvidia GT440 1GB, 2 x Western Digital WD10EARS 1TB, 1 x Seagate ST1000DM010 1TB,
Windows 7 Prof 64-bit, PD 9 Ultra 64, PD 13 Ultimate 64
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
Hey Neil,

You just proved yourself to be human. I knew that you will come up with a solution though. It has been many years since I did analog video capture. My XP machine motherboard gave out a few years ago and I never installed the two analog video pci capture devices on my win 7 pc because of the lack of 64 bit drivers.

WMM is better than PD according to the users in the past PD forum that have problems. Attached is a screenshot of the WMM screen and how to change the webcam capture to the Dazzle DVC 100. Glad to see users helping others out with their knowledge and you do have a lot of experience with analog video capture.

CS – hope that this helps. sealed
[Thumb - WMM Dazzle DVC100.jpg]
 Filename
WMM Dazzle DVC100.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
How to change from the webcam to the Dazzle DVC 100.
 Filesize
287 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
86 time(s)
CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
I went out and purchased an interface product called Roxio Easy VHS to DVD3 today.

I wasn't able to get the MovieMaker to work - or PD to work (capture without dropping a LOT of frames) using the Dazzle device. So I went looking today and found this 'cheap' interface - this product is working and I'm transferring (recording) over in to a mpg format file - the content that I want to copy. I have not used the created clip in PD yet but did import a clip successfully into PD that was created in the Easy VHS product.

So unless I run into some other issue, I think I have this resolved.

Thanks guys for the feedback and information.

CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 20. 2016 19:19

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
[Post New]
Hi, Mike, CS and Tom!

Yeah, I came a cropper on Windows Movie Maker. I have set WMM up for capture(my capture card is labeled as USB 2861 Device) and it's set up for audio and video capture through this device, but, as yet I've not tried it.

Mike, that Dazzle capture card(from Pinnacle) will work with any capture/edit software, not just Pinnacle Studio, heck, it'll even work with Power Director!

CS, as I said earlier, a lot of your frame-dropping could be related to the(physical) condition of the tape, its age, how often it's been played, leading to some wearing(and tearing). You can't expect the tape to be in "pristine" condition, it loses that quality as soon as you take off the cellophane wrapper and insert it into your VCR or your camera to record on it for the first time. Transferring these old tapes now will get them before they've been allowed to deteriorate any further. Dropped frames may well be part and parcel of the process.

Cheers!

(a slightly less-embarrassed) Neil!

P.S. I have downloaded your JPEG image Tom, Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 20. 2016 21:10

CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
Well, so far I haven't noticed the frame dropping using the Roxio capture device and associated software. It's allowing me to create video files - MPEG 2's I think, and all looks good so far as far as creating the files that I'll import into PD eventually.

So, while I'm sure there's degradation of old video tape, this process is running rather smoothly since I purchased this interface today!

I've not commented on my expectations of video quality - heck - I'm just glad I've got capture of the material so - I'll live with the 720x480 30p 8Mbps.... lol

CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 20. 2016 22:50

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
Fenman
Senior Contributor Location: Cambridge, UK Joined: Nov 24, 2011 04:44 Messages: 731 Offline
[Post New]
Neil, like I said it's a while since I did any analog capture but I think you're on the button regarding wear and tear. I'm sure I remember that analog capture devices can generate a lot of redundant data by trying to encode the noise on old tapes. I think the item I highlighted in the review is relevant here because it seems the Dazzle drops frames with even the highest-spec PC system. This suggests to me that it may be the device itself that's dropping them because it's trying to encode the noise and has insufficient processing power to do it.

CS, I think you did the wisest thing by getting a different capture device. You would never have resolved the issues with the Dazzle. Actually I have a number of old VHS tapes that I'd like to digitise before junking them so your experience here has been very useful. I have done a few in the past by hooking the VHS deck to a DVD recorder and recording onto rewriteable media then ripping in the PC but that's a laborious process so I'm thinking of getting a capture device. Regards,
Mike

Home-build system:
Intel Core i5 Quad Core 3.3GHz, 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333MHz,
Asus Nvidia GT440 1GB, 2 x Western Digital WD10EARS 1TB, 1 x Seagate ST1000DM010 1TB,
Windows 7 Prof 64-bit, PD 9 Ultra 64, PD 13 Ultimate 64
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
[Post New]
Hi, Mike and CS!

I've been doing a bit of my own "rescuing" of old VHS content(some of the material shot on Video-8 or Hi-8 and dubbed to VHS) and I'm set to do some of this work for a friend so the subject is still quite topical for me at the moment. CS, glad you've found a capture card that will "do the job" for you. Getting some of that old content onto DVD can be fun, and, with the tricks available through Cyberlink's various tools you could almost make the content look as if it was shot digitally! You don't even have to settle for the cramped 4:3 aspect ratio because CLPV can stretch the image out to 16:9 without making the people in your clip look like they've been "raiding the fridge". At the moment I'm using a K-World brand capture card that's doing the job for me, it came with a bare-bones version of Power Director 8, but, thanks to another Neil(Cubby House Films) in Melbourne, who sent me his surplus-to-requirements PD8 Ultra disc. I still have PD8 Ultra alongside PD14 Ultra.

Mike, yeah, wear and tear on a tape can give a lot of grief, in some cases it even falsely triggers the "copy-protected" alert which stops the capture cold. even on home-recorded tapes. Bloody nuisance, that is! I have a Dazzle capture card tucked away in a drawer which I haven't used for quite a while. The K-World device does the job better, for me at least.

Gotta jump off-line for a bit. AVG is bugging me to sort out some computer security issues. Back soon.

Cheers!

Neil.
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
[Post New]
Hi, all!

I'm back on-line. Gee that AVG can be a right pest at times! Right in the middle of answering posts on this site, this notice says I've got to shut down/restart my computer to sort a piddling little security thingy that AVG could've sorted out "in the background" without bothering me. Hmmmmphhh! Now I got that off my chest, where was I? Oh yes! Capturing old VHS stuff. As I mentioned, the capture card I'm using now is from K-World, and identifies itself as USB2861 Device in either PD or WMM, or any other capture/edit software.

Yeah, setting the capture profile to DVD-LP certainly fixed up one problem I had, in that in DVD-SP I was getting what looked like "scan-lines" in the captured video. Setting the profile to DVD-LP eradicated that bugbear. But regardless of what settings you use, CS, a lot of the problem with dropped frames comes back to the condition of the tape you're capturing from for your project. You might also, perhaps run a video head cleaning tape through your VCR(likewise a Video-8 format cleaning tape for your camera), that might help a little.

Cheers!

Neil.
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
[Post New]
This forum and answering questions about analog capture has stir my interest in capturing some old s-vhs tapes. Found this which may be of interest to others: http://vhs-to-dvd-converters-review.toptenreviews.com/ . The best converters are not the most expensive. The reviews seem to be informative that bundled software and drivers do not always work or software give one a lot of problems. Good reading for me. I may just buy one. The #1 is on sale in the US for $26.
CS2014
Senior Contributor Location: USA-Eastern Time Zone Joined: Sep 16, 2014 16:44 Messages: 629 Offline
[Post New]
That Diamond Video Capture device looks very similar to the Roxio Easy VHS to DVD device. No doubt operationally - they are probably very similar. Happy to see that it was one of the higher rated devices. I had no idea when I picked it up yestarday - how good or poor a device it was.

I've had one issue arise - I was capturing today and the audio stopped. I rebooted the software, then the computer, then ran the installation disc - and when I tried to re-install - had the option for a 'repair'. Did that and the audio, so far (fingers crossed), seems to be functioning fine.

The only option for an update is to update to a version that looks like it's made to allow WIN 10 to operate. Not sure if the update fixes other issues ( like the audio issue I had) or not - I'll try to contact 'their' support to see what the update addresses and then determine if I want to update.

Good luck with whatever device you get tomas.

CS

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 21. 2016 23:11

PD13 Ultimate - Build 3516, WIN 8.1, 64 Bit, 16G RAM, Intel Core i5 4460, CPU @ 3.2GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GT720, Graphics Memory(total avail.)-4093MB
LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray Drive
Neil.F.1955 [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Mar 07, 2012 09:15 Messages: 1303 Offline
[Post New]
Hi, all!

These capture card devices are generally "plug-and-play", if software comes with them, it's usually a bare-bones(cut-down) version of a popular editing software thrown in for the desired purpose, but when a user starts to "explore the possibilities of the software, he/she is disappointed to learn that in this bare-bones version, many of the "features" are not available. The capture card itself, is effectively a stand-alone device that will work with any editing software. It's far better to chase down a full version of the editing software than settle for the bare-bones version that came with the device. As for quality of performance, the old adage, "suck it and see" applies. If the capture device delivers a reasonable quality feed to your computer, well and good. If not.... well..... always try for another later. The first one I had, gave good video feed but the audio quality was attrocious, I bypassed the audio connections and fed the audio in via the line-in of my computer, had problems in that department but better that than the horrid audio delivered by that first card. The next card was a Pinnacle "Dazzle", it did the job, and gave good audio but then I struck a problem where I was getting false triggers of the "copy-protected" warning. I learned later that the false trigger was due to the condition of the tape. The capture card I'm using now does the job just fine for me(K-World brand).

Cheers!

Neil.
Powered by JForum 2.1.8 © JForum Team