Hi Djstills11 -

It's normal to produce your video @ 24MBps & PD spits out something not quite 24MBps. My camera records in the same range of bitrates as yours (7-24MBps). I always shoot in MXP mode (24MBps), but regularly get files out of PD that are 20-22, including slideshows.

14MBps seems a little low. Are you disappointed with the quality or just alarmed at the difference?

Cheers - Tony


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Quote: Have a couple questions. First, I produced a video that contained all AVCHD clips that were all at 24 Mbps. The video also contains some photos interspersed. I produced the video at the 24 Mbps rate (which was also selected by SVRT). The finished video ended up at 14.48 Mbps. Is this normal? I thought that it would have produced at the 24 Mbps. Is it the photos that caused this?
Second, what should I have the TV Format set at? I live in the US and my video camera shoots maximum 24 Mbps. Right now It's at NTSC 30 which I think is right.
Thanks for any help.

If SVRT3 enabled, does not have to worry about the video, follows the original, only the photo rendering takes typically bitrate is lower for static image, and maybe that is the difference.
There bitrate Player that shows in real time, in this case took their doubts. The Player Nero had this option. AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
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Thanks for your responses. The photos I'm using are from a disk from the photographer. The photos are averaging around 1.8 MB. Not sure if that is considered low or not and if that would affect anything.

Tony, Im not so much disappointed in the finished quality as it is still seems quite good. Just alarmed and maybe a bit paranoid that I may have wrong settings or doing something wrong.

I did burn to disk to check quality on tv and had about 10 seconds of stuttering towards the end but that is perhaps another issue.

Djstills11

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Djstills11 -

The resolution of the images used would have no impact on the produced bitrate.

As an example, I set up a short project with 2 clips straight off my Canon HF S10 (1920x1080 MTS @ 24MBps). Between the two clips I inserted some images in a motion slideshow, then produced to AVC H.264 1920x1080/60i (24MBps). I changed the images & repeated the test.

Test 1 - images average 8736x5824 (50MP) - produced video bitrate = 21.8MBps
Test 2 - images average 4751x3618 (15MP) - produced video bitrate = 22.1MBps
Test 3 - images average 1024x768 (0,8MP) - produced video bitrate = 21.9MBps
Test 4 - no images - produced video bitrate = 21.9MBps

Side note - hard to say what image resolution is from file size (depends on compression) - only gives a rough idea. In the tests above image sizes varied:Test 1 - from 8-19MB, Test 2 - from 6-8MB, Test 3 - from 75Kb - 120Kb. As a rough guess, the 1.8MB images from the disc are probably in the 6-8MP range.

Cheers - Tony


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Does the bitrate co-incide with need of the video at all? For instance, a video of a tree verses a video of a sport event?
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I believe that the 24Mbps is the TS MUX Rate, according to VideoRedo. The average bitrate for the video is a separate number.

What is the first clip on the timeline? Is it video or photo? If it's video, what is it's average bitrate? Are there any video effects or transitions that start off on the first video clip?

I have AVC video with varying bitrates. Even though PowerDirector indicates SVRT will be used, only the video clips that have bitrates that are extremely close to the first video clip will be SVRT'd. The others are recompressed. Gateway DX4380, AMD A8-5500 Quad Core 3.2GHz with ATI Radeon HD 7560D; 16GB RAM; 1 TB SATA 7200 RPM; Windows 8 Pro 64-bit; PDR11, PDVD12.

Quote: Djstills11 -

The resolution of the images used would have no impact on the produced bitrate.

As an example, I set up a short project with 2 clips straight off my Canon HF S10 (1920x1080 MTS @ 24MBps). Between the two clips I inserted some images in a motion slideshow, then produced to AVC H.264 1920x1080/60i (24MBps). I changed the images & repeated the test.

Test 1 - images average 8736x5824 (50MP) - produced video bitrate = 21.8MBps
Test 2 - images average 4751x3618 (15MP) - produced video bitrate = 22.1MBps
Test 3 - images average 1024x768 (0,8MP) - produced video bitrate = 21.9MBps
Test 4 - no images - produced video bitrate = 21.9MBps

Side note - hard to say what image resolution is from file size (depends on compression) - only gives a rough idea. In the tests above image sizes varied:Test 1 - from 8-19MB, Test 2 - from 6-8MB, Test 3 - from 75Kb - 120Kb. As a rough guess, the 1.8MB images from the disc are probably in the 6-8MP range.

Cheers - Tony

I question if the above observations are correct. It was shown here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/19654.page in the pdf file that the bitrate produced by PD varies substantially in sections of "non video" (color boards, motion pics....) This affects PD output produced to the AVC H.264 1920x1080/60i (24Mbps) as well.

I tried to mimic the two Canon clips with slideshow motion applied to some pics in the middle. I see the bitrate in the middle (motion slideshow) is in fact a function of the pic size. It's easy in the attached png to see the section of motion pics. Bitrate is substantially lower than 24Mbps Canon video prior to and after the section. The avg bitrate will be significantly affected by timeline content and duration. With default profiles, PD DOES NOT entirely comply with the avg bitrate specification in the profile details when the timeline contents are mixed.

Since Djstills11 claimed in the OP that it was all 24Mbps footage with some photos I wonder if Djstills11 selected the 1920x1080/60i profile which is around 15Mbps? It would take a significant portion of the timeline being photos to drop PD profile of 24Mbps bitrate to the observed 14.48 Mbps.

Jeff

Jeff/Tony, thanks for the testing
Jeff, I produced five separate vids that will be part of one larger production. Each has photos, some substantially more than others but all were ending up under 19 Mbps with one as low as 14.48. They were all produced using SVRT @ 1920x1080/60i @ 24mbps not the 16mbps.
Xerox may have nailed it. The opening clip in all vids is a photo, some with magic motion and all with a title. I produced all of them again with 1920x1080/60i @ 24 mbps with SVRT DISABLED and now I am getting Bitrates in the low 20's ! The produced vid that was at 14.48 is now at 20.20.
Barry, it is a wedding video I'm producing so no there is no heavy action and the quality still looked good, but it raised my curiosity and a bit of concern.
Interesting thoughts, everyone. Appreciate it much!
Djstills11

PD11 Ultra HP Pavillion P7-1126S
AMD A8-3800 APU 2.7 GHZ
Integrated Radeon HD 7550 Graphics
14GB RAM Win 7 Home Prem. 64 Bit
Canon Vixia HF M500

Jeff -

Questions are good. They make you (me) think. The observations I posted were possibly incomplete, but they were accurate observations of process and the properties displayed in MediaInfo reports.

What I posted was incomplete because I was referring to the average video bitrate (from MediaInfo) & was not even considering how the bitrate varies through the course of the video.

The photos I'm using are from a disk from the photographer. The photos are averaging around 1.8 MB. Not sure if that is considered low or not and if that would affect anything.

That's what I was responding to. My observation was that the image resolution (i.e. whether they were high or low) didn't appear to make a significant difference to average bitrate.

I understand that bitrate is affected by what's in the timeline (including transitions & effects). I didn't see any evidence that image resolution had an impact.

Your point about proportional video/image content got me thinking, so I repeated the tests with the same images - this time the slideshow sections were 50% of the total duration. I then used Bitrate Viewer to analyse the original tests (Test1, 2 etc) with the new ones (Test1a, 2a etc).

Without drawing any conclusions from what I observed, I'll just post the results here. The slideshow section is between the dotted red lines.








Cheers - Tony


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Tony, maybe different results than what I see, hard to really say. It would probably take exact timelines and settings to see if PD is actually functioning the same on your box vs mine. For all your (a) cases relative to the base number the overall file size and frames are lower 10-15% as well as the total duration so a different elapsed timeline but appears consistent. You apparently get nearly constant bitrate with mixed timeline, not what I have ever observed. I'm also a little surprised the Canon footage is coming up as NTSC 59.9401fps.

I did all CPU encoding as too many inconsistent anomalies with the other options so never tried. I had even checked bitrate on a PD burned BD with PS3 playback and it is consistent with my chart so PD was consistent between "Produce" and "Create Disc" as long as the same profile was used.

Always difficult to back guess what PD might be doing, if you render a simple colorboard on your system do you also get a near constant average bitrate too?

With either your observations or mine, it's difficult to see OP overall average bitrate fall to ~14Mbps with a 24Mbps PD profile so it must be unique to timeline and settings. Obviously more testing required to understand a little better.

Jeff

Quote: ... it's difficult to see OP overall average bitrate fall to ~14Mbps with a 24Mbps PD profile so it must be unique to timeline and settings. Obviously more testing required to understand a little better.Jeff

Jeff -

You're right. The testing we're doing in different hemispheres lacks some validity! Too many variables.

Using the same AVC H.264 1920x1080/60i (24MBps) profile, here are the Bitrate Viewer readings for:

1. A two minute colour board



2. 1 minute video clip (same as above tests) + 1 minute colour board (1920x1080 .bmp colour board came out the same)



3. 1 minute video clip + 1 minute JPG



Not sure what that tells us.

Cheers - Tony
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Thanks Tony, 1 and 3 make sense to me, 2 a little puzzling as the 59fps appeared so frame count is off for the same duration but the effect on the bitrate makes sense and is as I would have expected. I'm still puzzled why your other results look as they do with near constant bitrate for the whole duration, oh well. I think this also strengthens the thought that if you end up with a ~14Mbps average bitrate file using the 24Mbps profile, one needs ~50% still pic duration in the timeline of the same quality as your test 3. To me much more than just some photos interspersed in the real project timeline.

Jeff