Royalty Free music, which I paid for, and I still can't use!!

Javisyd

Member Location: Sydney Joined: Apr 11, 2012 04:21 Messages: 51 Offline

Solved by

Apr 25, 2012 19:36

Hi everyone!

A few months ago I purchased a 14 seconds track at royaltyfreemusic.com which I wanted to use as an intro on my videos, which I want to upload to youtube. (it cost me 10 dollars, which admitedly is not very much, but we're talking about a 14 seconds track, to make videos wich very few people will watch...)
It was a long term project, so I purchased the license and that was it, I "parked" the file in my computer.
Now, when I'm about to complete my first video, I decided to double check the "terms and conditions".

(for anyone interested, here's a link: http://www.royaltyfreemusic.com/license.html )

There's no mention of "youtube", so I had my doubts. Particularly this point:

I MAY NOT:

Distribute more than five thousand (5,000) physical units of your work incorporating our music without written permission.

When I first read this, I thought the limitation applied to CDs or DVDs...

What happens if more than 5.000 people view the video on youtube though, would this be considered a form of distribution of some kind, even if it's not "physical"??

So I checked with them.

They told me that if more than 5000 people view the video on youtube, I'd have to purchase an extended license! How about that!

It's not like if I'll be making thousands of dollars from those videos, it's a free video for everyone to see and learn, and I even purchased the license! it's absurd!

I checked my license again. It's a contract with "Getty images" (I checked them out on wikipedia, and they have a pretty bad reputation, chasing thousands of dollars from website owners who have used one of their images without paying a license).

I'm still waiting for royaltyfreemusic.com to send me the details of the "extended license", and meanwhile I've been searching other websites who offer very reasonable licenses for their Royalty Free music.
It's a pity because I searched for many days and hours before I found the original sound track which I purchased, the 14 seconds one, it really matches what I wanted...

I tried to find some information about "extended licenses" at Royaltyfreemusic.com and couldn't find anything, which is odd...

I think some of these Royalty free music sites are ripping people off. They´re buying a license to use that music and it turns out that they're not really entitled to use it freely (in a reasonable way).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 25. 2012 19:44

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babindia

Senior Contributor Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline

Apr 25, 2012 22:28

Javisyd

I really feel sorry for you,however you have given us useful information about royalty free music terms and conditions. PC specs :
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CubbyHouseFilms

Senior Contributor Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 03:55

Hi Javisyd

Thanks for sharing this information

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms
My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
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bolda

Member Location: Liberec, Czech Republic Joined: Feb 02, 2011 15:10 Messages: 96 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 04:11

Hi:

Have you considered using the music store on Vimeo (next time)?

Jirka

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 05:08

Interesting Javisyd! Thank you for sharing your experience.

The Getty Images license details state, under Restrictions 3.2

3.2 Licensee may not, without obtaining the prior written consent of Getty Images and the payment of additional License Fees: ... (iii) use or display the Licensed Material in an electronic format that enables it to be downloaded or distributed via mobile or wireless devices or shared in any peer-to-peer or similar file sharing arrangement;

That would appear to include sites like YouTube!

It's certainly worth thinking about!

Cheers - Tony

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 26. 2012 07:32

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Javisyd

Member Location: Sydney Joined: Apr 11, 2012 04:21 Messages: 51 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 07:26

Thanks everyone.

Bolda: well, I do have alternatives now...
For example, I really like jewelbeat.com, their market is actually youtube creators and they have really competitive and friendly fees.

Tony: But then what can you use it for, to play the music at home?

Actually, they do allow youtube.
The problem is going over their allowed limit. The license is just very hard to understand, and the "physical copies" sentences makes people believe that it only applies to Cds, DVDs and the kind.
From what I've read on the wikipedia about them, and their really obscure licenses and lack of information, I wonder if they're in the ruthless money trappers side of the internet vultures spectrum...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 26. 2012 07:27

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1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 12:23

The facts, or problems regarding music to videos are totally confusing to me.
I wonder how it is possible to use regular pop songs/rock songs of today, or for that
matter older pop songs, not use / list credits, upload to wherever – and get away with it.
So many amateur videos I can watch on YT have soundtracks which in no way they could
have license to use (?). What is the position of say Universal , Columbia or Sony? Are rules of
licenses practiced differently in US and Europe?
Now and then I get the message from YT that “this video is blocked in your country due to….”
- and the matter is the soundtrack of the video. Is this a Europe-thing, or Norway-thing?
(SmartSound has license info “for territories outside the US & Canada”.)

The music-business is a harsh business, and has been so for a very long time.
Everybody is looking to earn money from it; legal, illegal – or in the twilightzone. Many years
ago I was, in a small way, part in this business. I know how it’s possible to get ripped off if
you’re not paying attention- or have someone pay attention for you. It’s a wilderness,
and licenses, most often written in English, are even harder to understand for one
who English is the 2.language.

Making a wedding video for friends and give the couple a dvd, that’s one thing.
Most likely it will not be distributed via internet or you make sure that will not happen
by some agreement.. But what if you do a wedding for payment?
Then, you’re in a very different room of rules and regulations.

Some creators of music you find around the net allow you to use their music, if you
only credit them. Another way is to make the soundtrack yourself, or ally youself with
one who can. Then of course, the option of buying.

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Anonymous

Apr 26, 2012 14:50

Javisyd,
You're pointing out a thing, I was unsure about with a german kind of "royaltyfreemusic", called musicfox.com.
They also offer different kinds of licences, but as soon as you MIGHT present your video for a larger audience, it becomes REALLY expensive - for a non-profit amateur, as which I see myself: up to ~750 USD for a "national or international TV advertizement clip (OK, that's a bit above my level), and they start at about 18 USD for private use, including projects of schools or university, but the problem:
UTube is NOT mentioned.
Or could it be interpreted as a "podcast / videocast" presentation? (that would be about 40 bucks).
It's a tricky thing.

1Nina,
THAT's the thing I wonder about every time I get into UTube and watch a clip there.
Either WE are fools to care about licences - or THEY are mad about doing not.
I'm not really sure, which one counts.

Michael.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 26. 2012 14:51

jerrys

Senior Contributor Location: New Britain, CT, USA (between New York and Boston) Joined: Feb 10, 2010 21:36 Messages: 1038 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 19:51

Quote: The facts, or problems regarding music to videos are totally confusing to me.
I wonder how it is possible to use regular pop songs/rock songs of today, or for that
matter older pop songs, not use / list credits, upload to wherever – and get away with it.
So many amateur videos I can watch on YT have soundtracks which in no way they could
have license to use (?). What is the position of say Universal , Columbia or Sony? Are rules of
licenses practiced differently in US and Europe?

If they catch you they will skin you alive, pickle your head, brand the company's logo into your hide, and serve your liver in the company cafeteria.

Seriously, the publishers work rather hard at scanning for copyright infringements and every so often they make an example of someone. They occasionally sue college students for very large sums of money.

This doesn't just apply to music and movie publishers. The owners of the Lava Lamp have a reputation for enforcing their trademarks vigorously.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 26. 2012 20:43

Jerry Schwartz

Javisyd

Member Location: Sydney Joined: Apr 11, 2012 04:21 Messages: 51 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 20:21

As a general rule, you can't use anything that isn't yours. Sometimes youtube doesn't put those videos down because:

a) the record company allows it (Google shares the profits 50% for the company, 50% for them. The video creator gets nothing other than exposure). The problem of course is that your video will contain publicity...

b) So few people have seen it that they couldn't be bothered (although youtube will normally scan your video for music and warn you about it, sometimes refusing to publish material, but you're the only risponsible person for the content of the video).
You could be sued one day though... (if you're 12, no earnings, living in a third world country, they probably won't bother, particularly if the video isn't popular... sounds tough but that's how they do it)

But if you think along the lines of "sure, I used copyrighted material, but my understanding was that youtube can add publicity to my videos and then I'm legally safe", you could be in for a big shock one day...

There are sites which do offer royalty free, no hidden fees, 100% free music. (apart from paid and licensed Royalty free music, jewelbeat -amongst other sites- does have free music that you can use on your videos). You will probably have to mention somewhere that you got the music at their site, this is the common practice.

You just need to inform yourself well before adding music or sound effects to your videos. There was a time, many years ago, when "royalty free" did mean "absolutely free to use". But that of course is no longer so... and many "royalty fee" music tracks need to be licensed first (although there are several types of licenses).

If you wanna go free, you can, but you have to do your homework and find the truly free stuff that you can use.

A good source for free sound effects is freesound.org, but you must read their license agreement (for most sound clips, you only have to mention the name of the FX and sometimes where you got it from).

Avoid trouble, keep it legal. If you create some original stuff one day, you too will want to get paid...

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Apr 26. 2012 22:39

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Javisyd

Member Location: Sydney Joined: Apr 11, 2012 04:21 Messages: 51 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 21:21

Oh, and here's a very good article on this very topic, highly recommended:

http://www.reelseo.com/royalty-free-music/ PD17 Ult, PD16Ult, PD15ult + 13ult + 12ult
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Cranston

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Aug 17, 2007 02:26 Messages: 1667 Offline

Apr 26, 2012 22:21

And here's another authoritative resource, for those who enjoy a little light reading.

https://www.eff.org/issues/intellectual-property/guide-to-youtube-removals

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Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Apr 27, 2012 22:33

Here is what happens if you violate copyright licenses on Youtube and you get complaints from the copyright holders.

This user had hundreds of audio recordings from popular records, some were popular songs from the 50s and 60s.

http://www.youtube.com/user/rflowers57

This user is gone from Youtube and not allowed to post anymore.

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1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Apr 28, 2012 02:38

Wow, Carl !

I'm glad you showed me this.

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

babindia

Senior Contributor Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline

Apr 28, 2012 02:43

1Nina
Congratulations on you becoming a "Senior contributor".
Your shoulders now must be heavy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 28. 2012 02:44

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1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Apr 28, 2012 03:15

Thank you, Babdi.

As I’m sure you will have noticed, there are not many women
staying here over time. (In fact, am I the only one? Possibly “food for thought” ?)
So no, my shoulders aren’t heavy. They are strong :

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

babindia

Senior Contributor Location: India Joined: Aug 16, 2007 06:11 Messages: 884 Offline

Apr 28, 2012 05:08

Oh well nina, Your shoulders are strong,but responsibility as a senior weigh heavy on us,right ?

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royaltyfreemusic

Newbie Joined: May 14, 2012 12:40 Messages: 1 Offline

May 14, 2012 12:49

We have a page with info about licensing issues with Youtube. You can find it at http://www.smartsound.com/blog/my-video-was-flagged-by-youtube.html. Check out all our royalty free music at http://www.smartsound.com/royalty-free-music/ Hope this helps.

stevek

Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline

May 14, 2012 13:06

Even if you use something like SmartSounds or other royalty music, you may get a nasty note from the YouTube scanners (they claim that it is not them doing it but it is).

All you have to do is reply to the e-mail and explain to them that the music is royalty free and cite the source (SmartSounds). They will thank you and go away. The claim will be from at least two companies that handle non-royalty free music.

BTY, that is essentially what the above links say.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 14. 2012 13:08

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Javisyd

Member Location: Sydney Joined: Apr 11, 2012 04:21 Messages: 51 Offline

May 14, 2012 16:34

After several emails and a couple of weeks, I´ve finally been able to sort out this issue with royaltyfreemusic.com : I can use the track in question without any problems for my youtube videos.
That gives me peace of mind as apart from the receipt, I also have their emails.
I guess it's a bit of jungle out there and we're all trying to make some sense out of it.
It's only fair that musicians should make some money out of their compositions, but many of us are pretty honest people who have purchased a license to use it, and we should be well covered.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at May 14. 2012 16:35

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