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PDVD and stutter: why do we need ReClock?
crisliv [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 14, 2012 18:05 Messages: 24 Offline
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Hi,

Since I've been a PDVD customer, I've never been able to get an acceptable, fluid playback until I started using ReClock. It was true with 10, 11 and it's also true with 12.
At each upgrade I secretly hope that I will not need ReClock anymore, that instead of a new fancy feature we'll get perfect playback out of the box, but it's still there. After some minutes of viewing, stutter, judder or jerkiness (whatever you want to call it) occur. For the record, I have the same problem with other solutions - PDVD + ReClock is for my setup the best solution so far.

I'm using a recent HW, i5 and GT430, connected to a video projector, which make the stutter and frame drops very noticeable. My nVidia card has a custom refresh rate that is set to 23.9759 or something, so very close to the framerate.

From my understanding, stutter in Blu-Rays happen because of 3 reasons:
1/ film framerate does not match the video card refresh rate
-> you can set the video refresh rate to match almost exactly the framerate, but it's never exact, and a drift still occurs

But even if you do so and have a perfect match, you're still left with stutter:
2/ audio and video clocks different, and audio clock = master => when they reach a certain level of out of sync, video frames are dropped. And before those are drops, you can notice some lipsync issues.
3/ video vsync: when not locked in an appropriate value, it will roll and sometimes be presented too early or too late => those frames are either dropped or repeated (that depends on the TV or projector used I guess)

ReClock will:
- force the video frame rate to match EXACTLY, when possible, the video card refresh rate
- in order to do so, have the AUDIO clock to be slave to the video clock (instead of the contrary above), by doing audio resampling: not noticeable
- in addition, optionally lock VSYNC to an appropriate value that will never cause a frame to be dropped -> needed with PDVD

Thanks to this 3 actions, it will allow a movie to play from beginning to end with not a single frame dropped or repeated.

Now is the question:
Why isn't this implemented inside PDVD?
Why do I have to add a software to transform the approximate quality out of PDVD to a good quality?

It's a pitty because, except that I'm pretty satisfied overall.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 25. 2012 02:22

TimmSimm1981 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 19, 2012 10:50 Messages: 5 Offline
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both thumbsup for this post
nayan007 [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Dec 05, 2011 22:50 Messages: 52 Offline
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May be they are not aware of it. Now this idea came to you,but while developing this did not came to their mind.I will tell you this can be a good suggestion !! Love Cyber-Link !!
CyberLink-Michael [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Europe Joined: Apr 18, 2007 04:05 Messages: 7418 Offline
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Quote: Hi,

Since I've been a PDVD customer, I've never been able to get an acceptable, fluid playback until I started using ReClock. It was true with 10, 11 and it's also true with 12.

[....]

It's a pitty because, except that I'm pretty satisfied overall.



Hi thanks for your valuable feedback, it has been forwarded to our team to study and internal discussion

br
Michael Technical Support

Werde Facebook Fan
crisliv [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 14, 2012 18:05 Messages: 24 Offline
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Quote:
Hi thanks for your valuable feedback, it has been forwarded to our team to study and internal discussion
br
Michael


Many thanks Michael.
Would be interested to know what the team thinks about that.

Also would be interested to know what other users can achieve, maybe these issues are so dependent on the TV/Projector used that some are not noticing this.
Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 176 Offline
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This will be very interesting to see if the developing teem comes up with anything concerning reclock or at least their own version of it.
From all the reading I have been doing it is not easy to make a Blu-player that works in Windows. I have been told it's an after thought, that if a given Windows operating system was designed with a Blu-ray player in mind, no one would be having problems. I have my doubts about that though.

Apparently one of the problems to over come is the video/audio sync conflict. I have read that a computer has two separate clocks, one for each and this makes it very difficult to design a working player around this, even if the clocks are out by one millisecond, it will cause problems. A stand alone player has one clock where both the audio and video run off of.

Myself, I did finally convince Digital River to return my money as I simply could not get the jerky playback to stop. Shutting background tasks off helped a little each time, but the problem was never cured.
Even with reclock I could not get the DTS sound to work and that was quite possibly because reclock did not support it.

I can get TMT5 to work really well, I watched two movies last night with out a single problem. This is very confusing, why is it that Power DVD works for others, but not all ? The same can be said for TMT5, many have huge stuttering problems with TMT5 while Power DVD works great.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 26. 2012 14:18

Manoroid [Avatar]
Member Private Message Joined: Apr 10, 2010 23:07 Messages: 143 Offline
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Well I'm tired! I've purchased the last four Powerdvd.s only to hope for no more stuttering! I was definitely wrong I guess. Cyberlink just come out and say that your software needs to be fixed. I shouldn't need a separate software to fix a problem. Well in my case using reclock removes the ability to play he bitstreaming audio. So that's a no go for me!!!
oddball911 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 26, 2012 17:44 Messages: 5 Offline
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Ditto.

With TMT5 it's fine with my nVidia 520GT but I get the stutter when I tried to use a Radeon 6450.

Haven't tried reclock, but you're right, for $100 this should be fixed by the software vendor.
crisliv [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 14, 2012 18:05 Messages: 24 Offline
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In my case, I could not get TMT to work, even with ReClock, and I tried many things, including both nVidia and ATI (am using a GT430 now). Btw I have audio in analog.

Yes, apparently many of those problems (but not all) come from this dual clock, and the fact that on Windows, the master clock is the audio one. Since they're never perfectly in sync, video frames get dropped to get them back in sync every now and then. ReClock forces the opposite: having the video clock as the master clock, and slave the audio clock to it, by resampling audio (instead of dropping audio frames).

Guys, my purpose here was not to create a thread for getting ads for other vendors
I'm a Cyberlink customer, and would like to stay there. As I said, apart from this problem, I'm pretty satisfied. But this problem is pretty big, and I'm just afraid that someday, ReClock will no more be supported...
crisliv [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 14, 2012 18:05 Messages: 24 Offline
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Jeff - no problem. And I appreciate comments and suggestions

For the projector, I'm using the JVC DLA-HD350 (which has a different reference in the US, can't remember which one). It does not do frame interpolation, but supports natively the 24p quite well.
crisliv [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 14, 2012 18:05 Messages: 24 Offline
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OK I think that the DLA-HD350 corresponds to the DLA-RS10.
It's a very, very nice projector, but that unfortunately does not support 3D...

And about the overall topic: It's important to say that I'm looking for perfection. I have a problem with framedrop, and a single one during a 2h movie will get me nuts - I've with PDVD11 + ReClock enjoyed countless hours of movies with no single frame drop. I'm just looking to reproduce that "perfect" behavior with just PDVD
Jeff R 1 [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Jan 09, 2010 14:05 Messages: 176 Offline
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That's a nice projector, at the time frame interpolation was most important for me and still is. When I was shopping for one the Panasonic 3000 was highly rated and way more affordable than the JVC line. Now I have a Pany 4000 and I am very happy with it. Not too interested in 3D, I found it bothers my eyes a bit.

I enjoy it more then going to the theater.

I know what you mean about frame drops. I am a perfectionist too and I spent months trying to get Power DVD to work, but to no avail. The FI feature takes care of the naturally occurring frame judder as you know, but any frame drops, skips, or what ever you call it shows up even more.
I think Cyberlink relies on frame judder to cover up dropped frames ???

If I turned of the FI feature I would not notice it.

At least there is re-clock, but yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to use it, and shouldn't have to.

Unfortunately it may take Cyberlink months or even years to come up with their own version.

I will continue to monitor these forums as I find all of this very interesting and maybe Cyberlink will surprise us !

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 27. 2012 21:01

Kevtech2503 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Location: Ireland Joined: Feb 12, 2014 07:39 Messages: 3 Offline
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Hi - this is an article on How to Solve PowerDVD 12 bluray playback stutter / judder using ReClock http://hometheatre.ie/how-to-solve-powerdvd-12-bluray-playback-stutter-judder/
Johnhz1532 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2015 14:35 Messages: 19 Offline
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Ok, I know this post is 7+ years old, but unfortunately nothing has been done about this issue by Cyberlink to date.

I first purchased PDVD at version 17. Found it stuttered.

Tried version 18. Found it stuttered.

Tried version 19. Found it stuttered.

Problem occurs with MKV files. Yes, Reclock does help to solve this issue, but it doesn't support V18 (later versions) or V19.

So basically the stuttering remains and there appears to be no fix.

For a media player that is so well featured and focused on playing videos, to have stuttering video like this is just crazy.

I've got an i7 7700k with 1660ti gpu 32gb ram and i still can't play videos without powerdvd stuttering!

Every other player i've tried works just fine except for powerdvd.

It really annoys me because i love the truetheater enchancements and would happily be a loyal lifetime customer if this issue was finally fixed. But if it hasn't been fixed in 7 years, i doubt it ever will.
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Quote Ok, I know this post is 7+ years old, but unfortunately nothing has been done about this issue by Cyberlink to date.

I first purchased PDVD at version 17. Found it stuttered.

Tried version 18. Found it stuttered.

Tried version 19. Found it stuttered.

Problem occurs with MKV files. Yes, Reclock does help to solve this issue, but it doesn't support V18 (later versions) or V19.

So basically the stuttering remains and there appears to be no fix.

For a media player that is so well featured and focused on playing videos, to have stuttering video like this is just crazy.

I've got an i7 7700k with 1660ti gpu 32gb ram and i still can't play videos without powerdvd stuttering!

Every other player i've tried works just fine except for powerdvd.

It really annoys me because i love the truetheater enchancements and would happily be a loyal lifetime customer if this issue was finally fixed. But if it hasn't been fixed in 7 years, i doubt it ever will.


Weird..I have used the last few versions of PowerDVD and never experience judder playing Blu-ray and MKV files with TrueTheater enabled. So not sure where the bug is you are referring to. Plus, these other users are talking about projectors and Blu-rays, so it is clearly different.

Judder is often caused by audio, so check your output settings.

Dave

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 08. 2019 20:45

Johnhz1532 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2015 14:35 Messages: 19 Offline
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Quote

Judder is often caused by audio, so check your output settings.

Dave


Do you mean the audio settings in PDVD or in Windows?

There aren't really any audio settings to change in PDVD except for speaker configuration and exclusive mode or am i missing something?
QC2.0 [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Apr 27, 2016 04:02 Messages: 392 Offline
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For audio processing, do you rely on some external DAC or A/V receiver to decode the audio additionally? The decoding delay would cause the aynchronous and video stuttering as well in "micro perspective".

I have no stuttering concerns with my powerdvd 17 18 19 versions, and I don't need ReClock.

Perhaps, you have excellent insight to notice the micro difting or so called "stuttering" after the video got displayed on a monitor, which the difting is caused by GPU and monitor's processing of the alignment between video frame rate and display refresh rate, and you need the ReClock tool additionally to ease it.

The drifting can be eased, but it can never be completely resolved due to technical frame rate differences.

Live with it, or save your time to find something else, or you can also ask ReClock to support powerdvd new versions instead.
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Dear All,

Locking thread because new posts do not seem to be related to original topic. Also, as we ask users not to do in the Read Me, user replied to an old topic, instead of starting a new one and referring back to the original.

Johnhz1532, please contact CyberLink Technical Support about your issue and follow the current advice given by users.

Cheers
PowerDVD Moderator
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