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Hardware Video Encoder option - so finicky
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5436 Offline
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I've opened a support ticket (CS00194425
...
Now stating Nvidia hardware encoding as an enhanced and world class feature in their marketing material is very misleading for new users. I think they should at least put a foot note stating that drivers after 411.70 are not currently supported.

Thank you for creating the support ticket!

To be fair, When PD17/DirectorSuite365 were launched last month, the products were fully able to use nVidia hardware features, and it's only since nVidia started releasing their new series of drivers last week that the features have been lost.

While it will likely take Cyberlink some time to integrate the newer SDK and release a patch, if they are actively working on the issue I don't see a need for a disclaimer on the marketing materials.

Certainly, one would absolutely be needed if PD ends up unable to use GPU resources with the new driver series for any reason.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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lduguay [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 13, 2012 13:14 Messages: 23 Offline
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Thank you for creating the support ticket!

To be fair, When PD17/DirectorSuite365 were launched last month, the products were fully able to use nVidia hardware features, and it's only since nVidia started releasing their new series of drivers last week that the features have been lost.

While it will likely take Cyberlink some time to integrate the newer SDK and release a patch, if they are actively working on the issue I don't see a need for a disclaimer on the marketing materials.

Certainly, one would absolutely be needed if PD ends up unable to use GPU resources with the new driver series for any reason.


I will post back on that thread if anything good comes from that support ticket. IMO, I am afraid I will get a canned answer
LD

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 15. 2018 15:49

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blasiusxx [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Mar 12, 2011 09:44 Messages: 330 Offline
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The German support wrote me back. The problem is known, and they are already working on a solution. However, you can not say how long it will take.
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lduguay [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Feb 13, 2012 13:14 Messages: 23 Offline
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This is what I received from CL Support


Dear Luc,
Thank you for writing us back.
With regard to your previous concern, we recently found the latest Nvidia driver v416.xx will disable hardware encoding capability. We are working on a solution to support the new version Nvidia VGA driver.
You are suggested to install the previous version driver v411.xx as the solution.
Nvidia previous version driver: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-usPlease feel free to contact us back for further clarification or assistance related to CyberLink Products. Use the link below to get back to us:
https://membership.cyberlink.com/support/service/technical-support.do
Thanks and Regards,
Vince
CyberLink Technical Support

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Oct 18. 2018 14:36

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Cartof [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 11, 2017 06:12 Messages: 38 Offline
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Thx Optodata,

I've opened a support ticket (CS00194425 FWIW. I must admit It may not be an easy task to requalify PD with a new API, but I read they had an advanced notice back in March (and probably much earlier than that). Now stating Nvidia hardware encoding as an enhanced and world class feature in their marketing material is very misleading for new users. I think they should at least put a foot note stating that drivers after 411.70 are not currently supported.


Hi, any news? I am using latest nvidia driver (416.34) and i also cannot render with nvenc.. Thanks !
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BUSSON [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Nov 12, 2018 16:53 Messages: 3 Offline
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Hello all,

we are now in november and the hardware acceleration still not work, any news ?
I cannot roll back on older Nvidia driver because been a gamer and A VR User as well I need the last driver version for compatibilty issue.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 12. 2018 17:17

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 5436 Offline
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I think it'll happen this week, maybe much sooner!

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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Quote Hello all,

we are now in november and the hardware acceleration still not work, any news ?
I cannot roll back on older Nvidia driver because been a gamer and A VR User as well I need the last driver version for compatibilty issue.


The beta patch doesn't help?
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/77602.page
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What can I say... I have ditched my GTX960 for an AMD RX580.


 Filename
AMD_encoder.PNG
[Disk]
 Description
RX580
 Filesize
58 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
1 time(s)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 13. 2018 14:03

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pmikep [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Nov 26, 2016 22:51 Messages: 271 Offline
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My power supply only has one 6 pin aux connector. Looks like the AMD 480/580 series requires two aux connector, 8 and 6.
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Quote My power supply only has one 6 pin aux connector. Looks like the AMD 480/580 series requires two aux connector, 8 and 6.

It does require a beefier PS, mine has two 6 pin connectors and I have used an adapter from 6 pin to 8 pin.

However, just for video editing you don't need the top of the line videocard, you just need the minimum that supports video encoding in that certain class, in this case an RX560/560X would be sufficient since it has the same encoding engine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Coding_Engine#GPUs

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 13. 2018 14:57

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pmikep [Avatar]
Senior Member Private Message Joined: Nov 26, 2016 22:51 Messages: 271 Offline
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Tnx. I might consider one if I there's a good BF deal. I'm not happy with Nvidia's Telemetry. And lately they seem to be slipping on the quality of their drivers.
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UmmOkayGuy [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Nov 18, 2018 04:41 Messages: 4 Offline
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It does require a beefier PS, mine has two 6 pin connectors and I have used an adapter from 6 pin to 8 pin.

However, just for video editing you don't need the top of the line videocard, you just need the minimum that supports video encoding in that certain class, in this case an RX560/560X would be sufficient since it has the same encoding engine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Coding_Engine#GPUs

Yes, everyone thinks that when they're doing nothing but cutting clips and rendering out stuff...

Then they try to do color correction, effects, etc. and complain about awful performance, less-than-realtime playback, and rendering speed nosedives because thier weaksauce GPU can't handle it.

Especially thsoe people who try to move to 4K.

You should at least have a 4GB GPU for Video Editing on the even of 2019. You need that for 4k when you start doing effects, color correction, etc. unless you want to be forever limited to proxy playback resolutions (though I think PowerDirector enforces that at all times, anyways...).

GPU does matter for video editing, a lot... unless you're doing stupendously trivial work.

HW Decoders and Encoders will accellerate the Decoding of the RAW video and Encoding of the rendered frames. They do not render those frames for you - i.e. ALL of the work in between those two steps. CPU and GPU is needed for that. A Hardware Encoder will do nothing to accelerate Color Correction Effects... That's largely GPU-bound. A Hardware Encoder will do nothing to accelerate Stabilization Effects. That's largely CPU bound.

---

When you render a video, this is how things work...

1. AMD VCD or NVDEC decodes the video from H.264 to RAW video frames, which are much bigger and take up a LOT of space in RAM (and VRAM, when they are passed to the GPU).

2. CPU Effects are calculated and applied to the frame. Some CPU Effects are light, some are quite heavy.

3. GPU Effects are calculateion and applied to the frame. Some are light, some are heavy. Frames have to be copied to GPU VRAM and then back to the CPU (unless you're using an iGPU, which allocates and shares RAM with the CPU.


  • CPU and GPU effects may be applied in different orders, depending on how they are stacked in some NLEs.



4. AMD VCE or NVENC then encodes and re-compresses the video.


  • GPU Encoding is typically of lower quality than CPU encoding, so for final renders the general guidance is always to avoid VCE or NVENC. They are fast, but they are actually more useful for Media Playback Acceleration and Streaming Applicaitons (since they're actually a seperate chip, they don't use much CPU or GPU... so theyr'e great for streaming to Twitch while gaming... you basically lose no performance even on budget gaming systems).



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The part that bogs down video editing is NOT encoding, as encoding can be done AFK, and is generally a passive task. It's the part in the middle that takes up the brunt of the time - even when encoding.

This is why NVENC decreases in benefits the longer and more complicated your edit is... Because you increase the amount of CPU/GPU grunt work, which means that you are spending less of your time Decoding or Encoding and more of your time processing on the CPU and GPU.

People who buy weaksauce GPUs for PDR and eventually have to move up to something like Premiere Pro, Resolve, Media Composer, etc. are going to suffer on those products when they began using some of the more heavy/advanced effects, color correction, stabilization, or want to render out ot formats like ProRes or DNxHR. For 4K, you will start running out of VRAM when using effects that make better use of hte GPU than consumer-level editors (all of which are terrible for this - almost without exceptions).

Most of PDR's "Acceleration" is generic OpenCL stuff, and the Decode/Encode is NVDEC/ENC and VCD/E. It's not the same kind of CUDA-Accelerated Acceleration you find in the higher end products, so this leads people to buy hardware that may not stand the test of time (or in some cases, leaves them with borderline useless machines when they have to move up to a more advanced package i.e. Laptops with only an iGPU and no TB3 eGPU connectivity).

And those higher end packages often are better optimized for CUDA than for AMD GPUs (unless it's a macOS port optimized for Metal, like DaVinci Resolve).

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at Nov 18. 2018 05:21

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doublethr33 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 23, 2018 05:57 Messages: 40 Offline
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Jeff,

I did rush out and get a new RTX2080Ti for PD's current encode performance during BD creation.
And I did buy a new shiney gold ASUS Laptop with a GTX 1050
And I did update all my other systems to 416.34
And I did preorder a i9-9900k (hopefully the embedded GPU will be used for encoding)

The only thing I will not rush out now is Upgrade to PD 17 until this mess is fixed or CL removes Nvidia HW acceleration from their marketing material.

Thanks for this valuable information.

Now I look like a fool :p


It's not your fault that CL doesn't have the software working as it should. Every time I feel better about one deficiency, I read about another. People buy good quality parts to build their pc and then find out some of these companies' software doesn't utilize it as well. So i'm probably leanign resolve, like that oen guy suggested... at least then I know I'm getting my pc aprts working at something.
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doublethr33 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 23, 2018 05:57 Messages: 40 Offline
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Quote What can I say... I have ditched my GTX960 for an AMD RX580.




And, if you recall, I predicted this. lol. I said since people suggested nvidia over amd for PD16 and I sold my AMD card and got an nvidia, PD17 would surely do better with amd cards.
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