YNOTFISH - Tony

First I must offer an apology - I didn't intend to have my post focused on your comments.

I see I should have added a "To all" notation before the sentence that starts "So - please watch ...."

Regarding posting screen shots - I believe it would be difficult to really show the issues. However, if there is anyone that would like to see screen shots please advise and I will try to do that.

RDOIII

Quote: Neil



Very interesting comments

Am I correct to assume that PD8 works as I want it to do?



Thanks



RDOIII

Hi, RDOIII!

It's because Power Director 8(Ultra version) is still in situ on my computer, that I'm able to describe the method of setting audio levels. In PD8, the level value appears above the fader(slider) control for any of the audio tracks(as opposed to below the slider for PD14). I can type in any value(within the allowed range) from dead quiet up to full-blast. What I do is to set a point at just before where I want to boost or cut the volume, step the video forward a few frames, and at that point, type in a new value, above or below 0db, and the "rubber band" as it's been called elsewhere, will jump up or down to that level and hold it until I want to, say, bring the level back to 0db, I just reversethe process from where I boost or cut the level. **I should point out however that this applies only to the clip you're working on(highlighted clip)**, that's why I finish editing my video to a point where I can view it in full, writing my narration script as I go. then record the script and drop it in, using the method I've explained earlier in this thread. **The comment in bold italics may disappoint you as you are able to set the level across an entire video(all clips put in place) in Pinnacle Studio 12, but I haven't tried that as yet in Pinnacle Studio 12 myself, I suspect you can only do it once all your clips are in place and BEFORE you've put any/all transitions in place.(My own experience of Pinnacle 12 is that it's good for editing content derived from analogue sources, but falls down somewhat when trying to edit digital-sourced content).

Cheers!

Neil.

I agree with RDOIII and others with how I wishPD14 would work. I too am coming from Pinnacle Studio v1-v15 (now end-of-life), and its audio editing behavior has spoiled me. I sadly can't find another editor that works this way; still looking.

Hello, jklein!

Pinnacle V15(end-of-life), does that mean there are no more versions of Pinnacle Studio after Version 15? Hmmm.... With Power Director 14, RDOIII's analogy of TV sound setting makes sense, makes a lot of sense, actually! If you mute the audio on a TV, you expect it to stay muted until you push the button that un-mutes it. Setting the audio to a certain value at the very beginning of a clip, you should reasonably expect that value to be maintained until such a point where you reset it yourself. I've been creating some short first-play intro sequences for future DVDs. Using some animation effects for images on the screen, I get the clip complete to just before I add music. When I add the music, at the start of the music track I pull the fader all the way down. If I play before doing anything else, I watch with dismay as the volume creeps back up to 0db. THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN! If I were to do the clip in PD8, adding the audio, if I play before doing anything else after pulling the fader all the way down, IT STAYS DOWN until I add points at where it should increase. This is what SHOULD happen! The audio control aspect of PD14 is not an innovation, it is, instead, a very bad design glitch!.

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil,

I agree with you 100% about how I think it should work. Obviously the authors of the program think differently .

With regards to Pinnacle Studio, the consumer version we all love ended at v15. Pinnacle renamed one of their higher end applications (don't remember the name of it) as Pinnacle Studio v16, and is now at v19, but it is a totally different program. I bought it and returned it.

Sometime recently, Corel bought Pinnacle Studio v16-v19.

I would pay a few hundred US Dollars for some company to bring the old Pinnacle Studio v15 back to life, with updates to support all the new codecs, etc. Wishful thinking I know, but the old program was that good.

Quote:

Quote: Neil



Very interesting comments

Am I correct to assume that PD8 works as I want it to do?



Thanks



RDOIII

Hi, RDOIII!

It's because Power Director 8(Ultra version) is still in situ on my computer, that I'm able to describe the method of setting audio levels. In PD8, the level value appears above the fader(slider) control for any of the audio tracks(as opposed to below the slider for PD14). I can type in any value(within the allowed range) from dead quiet up to full-blast. What I do is to set a point at just before where I want to boost or cut the volume, step the video forward a few frames, and at that point, type in a new value, above or below 0db, and the "rubber band" as it's been called elsewhere, will jump up or down to that level and hold it until I want to, say, bring the level back to 0db, I just reversethe process from where I boost or cut the level. **I should point out however that this applies only to the clip you're working on(highlighted clip)**, that's why I finish editing my video to a point where I can view it in full, writing my narration script as I go. then record the script and drop it in, using the method I've explained earlier in this thread. **The comment in bold italics may disappoint you as you are able to set the level across an entire video(all clips put in place) in Pinnacle Studio 12, but I haven't tried that as yet in Pinnacle Studio 12 myself, I suspect you can only do it once all your clips are in place and BEFORE you've put any/all transitions in place.(My own experience of Pinnacle 12 is that it's good for editing content derived from analogue sources, but falls down somewhat when trying to edit digital-sourced content).

Cheers!

Neil.

Neil



In the comment above that I underlined and highlighted where you ask about does the audio controls still work in Pinnacle Studio 12 as I demontrated in the video if transitions had been made. The answer is yes - adding transitions makes no difference to the way the audio controls works - even if the transitions are fade in/out. More to the point the fade transitions will fade the video and the audio between both clips if the audio level is up at the point of the transisiton. If the audio level has been reduced before a transition it stays down across the clip and into the next clip. i didn't add transition to the video as i didn't want to cloud the issue.

So you see if the audio control functioned as it does in Pinnacle 12, then you would not need to do the laborious task of rendering the video, then addding audio, then rendering again.

I have even thought of doing this, but there are so many times that when editing the audio I find that I want the video to be trimmed or extended or speed changed to match the audio - but you can't work with the video any longer (short of trimming out parts) so that is not a solution - just a poor work around.

Also - to you point of how PD8 worked. If the volume change only affected one clip, then PD8 does not work as I had thought it did.

FYI - to duplicate what you were doing in PD8 watch the my first video and you will see that by using the slider control to lower the volume it will go down and stay down - but only until the end of the clip - but it will not create a fade back condition as witnessed by using the fade control button.



RDOIII

Hi, RDOIII!

Thanks for some useful info! I will try it as I have Pinnacle Studio Vers.12(albeit copied, thus unregistered) on my computer. I still use PD14 for editing but audio work will more than likely be assigned to PD8 from here on out, along with DVD authoring(burning to disc).

I will do some experimenting with Pinnacle 12 "to see what hoops it will jump through" in relation to audio editing. After what you've said, I'm curious to see what can be done in PS12.

Cheers!

Neil.

RDOIII, There really is not much difference in PD8 vs PD14. Attached is a small video of PD8. The one feature I notice of difference is if you change the volume at a particular point in a single clip, the last keypoint goes with it. This does not occur in PD14. The fade in/out works the same. I really think this feature was maybe only designed to work at the beginning or end of a clip, then it appears to work as intended, a simply fade.

The volume scale in PD8 was just a linear level, not db as someone noted earlier. Big discussion about that change here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/30556.page when it occurred. A support ticket was also sent to CL, CS001307124, with the resolution of:
"I appreciate your comments and suggestions and will use them to help improve our products / services when making future decisions. I have forwarded your concern to our Product and Development department for further analysis and future updates."

Well, that was 3 yrs ago, still the same so one simply has to learn to live within the ability that's there.

They are obviously working in the area of the audio pitch with video speedup, they had a comment in the beta release here http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/46936.page "Enables “Audio Pitch” when setting Speed Multiplier over 2.00x in the Power Tools" However, as you note and many have observed, things are not right yet. To tell the truth, I can't see what this comment even addressed. I see the same issue in pre beta release and post. Muted clip, audio plays when it shouldn't, no user volume control. The only feature that does work concerning scaling audio pitch is the "Remove Audio" setting in the video speed pref, there it is removed and one does get the corrected muted clip status.

All I can suggest is put the comments in the current beta thread as other betas are locked and maybe something will be addressed, appears at least to be active development at CL.

Jeff

Thank you Jeff -

If anyone had asked me to draw the GUI of PD8's Audio Mixing room I would have got it horribly wrong. Your screen capture did the trick.

Cheers - Tony
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JL-JL



Thanks for the comments and the video capture

It looks like the audio mixer has remained as is from previous versions.

I remain greatly disappointed that the controls do not function as the should (IMHO) and do in other mixing software.



To all



I discovered the 'Solution" to one of my problems - muting of audio with speed increase.

As JL-JL noted, in the window that you apply the speed increase there are two radio buttoms. One to mute audio or leave it.

I discovered that the 'Leave it" buttion was on for me. Selecting mute audio button made the clip with speed increase now go silent.

There is still as issue because if the "leave audio on" button is selected the "Mute Clip" selection should not be shown for the clip when it is "right clicked" to access the clip menu.



Thanks

RDOIII

Hi, JL_JL(Jeff)!

I just downloaded your screen capture and, though silent, backs up what I've been saying about the relative ease of audio editing in PD8, compared to that in PD14. Setting audio levels in PD8(and PD7) is a breeze compared to PD14. Methinks Cyberlink needs to take a few steps backward to these earlier versions and see what they got right in them, compared to what they've clearly got so badly wrong in PD14.

Cheers!

Neil.

Audio is the black point of Pd14. Otherwise it is a great tool.

What i expect it should works :

- when i group two or more audio clips, be able to change the gain of all the select audio clip
- when i group two or more audio clips, be able to make mod with audio director to all the select clip

The way it currently work is a nightmare. If i cut 75 times. I have to apply audio director effect 75 times. Make me crazy.

In addition we should be able to change the level of the select clip instead of using point by point decrease.

It needs two mode (select by one key shift for example). One where we change the level of the selected clips (like in sony vegas) and another as it is now.

Hi, all!

Something I should point out in the difference between PD8 and PD14 with regard to setting audio levels, In PD14, the levels are shown in decibel calibrations while in PD8 the levels are shown in a range from 0(muted) to 100(maximum audio level), 50 being the mid-point where the default level is set. I was redoing an edit of a recent trip I took to a tramway museum and, after editing all the clips together in PD14, opted to insert my narration track and do final produce in PD8. This is where the difference between the two Power Director versions come into their starkest contrast. PD8 is far easier to use! Puts PD14 "in the shade" in this respect. And yes, Pinnacle Studio 12 has a feature that Power Director could also use, if you set the audio level for the first clip you insert, all subsequently-inserted clips will automatically be set at that same level. That, in itself is a time-saving feature.

Cheers!

Neil.

Hi Neil,
The majority of editors here either no longer have PDR8 installed or have come to PDR later. While I'm not wanting to turn this thread or this forum into a PDR8 comparison thread. If you want to make a point, the best way would be for you to screen capture still images of both PDR8 (that you have) and PDR14 for the later users to actually see the differnce you are referencing. Just a suggestion.

FYI: PDR8, if you look it up, only every had one update patch, the lowest for any PDR.

Dafydd

Quote: Hi Neil,
The majority of editors here either no longer have PDR8 installed or have come to PDR later. While I'm not wanting to turn this thread or this forum into a PDR8 comparison thread. If you want to make a point, the best way would be for you to screen capture still images of both PDR8 (that you have) and PDR14 for the later users to actually see the differnce you are referencing. Just a suggestion.

FYI: PDR8, if you look it up, only every had one update patch, the lowest for any PDR.

Dafydd

I may well do that! Keep watching this thread.

Hello Dafydd!

Here is that comparative image. For space reasons, I've cropped down to the sliders. However, These are enough to show the differences in audio level adjustment between the two Power Director versions.

Cheers!

Neil

Hi!

A quick peek shows me someone has downloaded the image I provided. Hopefully, you, the downloader should see the difference between the two versions of Power Director, Version 8 against Version 14. I have kept Version 8 on my computer for initially the reason that I can fit a great deal more content on a standard 4.7 GB disc, but in experiences with PD8 in the past, and with PD14 now, I find PD8 far more compliant with the way I do my audio editing, especially in the way I insert my narration tracks, which I record in Sony Sound Forge, then import them as MP3 audio to be inserted on the voice track of Power Director. PD8 has shown itself as very user-friendly in this respect, and, as Dafydd B. has pointed out, PD8 has only ever had(or needed) one update patch. Obviously Cyberlink must've got a lot right with PD8, such a pity then, that users are experiencing varying degrees of difficulty with subsequent PD versions.

Cheers!

Neil.

Hi Neil,

You say that you can adjust the sound level by putting direct value in PD8.

IN PD14, you can also put direct value without having to move the slider. The difference i see is that in Pd14 it is written "db"

Do I miss something ?

Quote:

You say that you can adjust the sound level by putting direct value in PD8.

IN PD14, you can also put direct value without having to move the slider. The difference i see is that in Pd14 it is written "db"

Do I miss something ?

Hello, Theolilou!

You haven't missed anything! I tried typing in the value, but PD14's audio setting isn't quite as user-friendly as that of PD8. Such a shame PD8 is no longer available. There are features of PD8 that should be brought through to PD15 when it's released, crucial among these is the ability to get it up-and-running WITHOUT the need of the internet to complete the activation process. The audio settings for PD15 could also rmulate PD8 in their configuration. The zero-to-100 range is easier to manipulate. The main bugbear with PD14 is: when the level is set(lower than zero decibels, for instance, on the main video track) it creeps back to zero db instead of retaining the setting, as the video plays. If, in PD8 you set a figure below 50 to make the native audio from your video less intrusive, the setting is fixed at that level for the duration of that clip unless you readjust it. In other words, unlike PD14, PD8's audio settings are very compliant.

Cheers!

Neil.

Thank you Neil for your feedback.

Quote: Thank you Neil for your feedback.

Hi, Theolilou! Sorry if some of what I wrote may not make sense. These computer keyboards are not as good as old trusty mechanical typewriter keyboards at times. Somestimes a keystroke doesn't register or you get the wrong letter in the word you're trying to write. You don't realise the mistake until you see it later(I just noticed when I tried to type "emulate" it came out as "rmulate". I'm sure I hit the 'e' key but the 'r' key registered instead....) it can be very embarrassing! Anyway, back to subject, thanks for your feedback as well. By interest, do you have an earlier version of PD on your computer alongside PD14? If so, how does the audio adjustments on the earlier version you may have compare to that of PD14? I ask because, since PD9, Power Director has not required the removal of an earlier version when installing the newer version. Zum beispiel*, If you had PD7 and were about to install PD8, the installation process would tell you to first uninstall PD7, but if you had PD7 or PD8 still on your computer and were about to install Power Director version 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 or 14, you would not be required to remove the older version, this is proving useful to me as I can make comparisons, use PD14 for some work and PD8 for other work I wanted to perform, Each version could have its own special function. Some users have multiple versions of PD on their computer, probably for that very reason, specialised functions. PD8, I've found to have very easy-to-use audio adjustment for eding work in that department, plus the ability to burn in DVD-SP to make full use of my discs, PD14 has video editing effects I can employ as well, but it is mainly only for video editing that I'm using it. *By the way, Zum Beispiel is German, it means "For Example".

Cheers!

Neil.