Which CODEC to shoot in?

Old Parallax

Newbie Joined: Apr 08, 2011 11:00 Messages: 6 Offline

Solved by

Apr 08, 2011 11:23

Hello all. My first post here. I've been using PD9 to assemble a little documentary and like the software very much.
Much of my animation is done in either Photoshop or Flash MX and it looks great once assembled and rendered in PD9.

But what format to use for shooting live footage? I'll be using either a camcorder or digital camera onto memory card. And I'll be staying with 1280x720 for everything. There are several formats used by camcorders and digicams, but is any one better than another for editing?

What has been your experience with the formats like H264, AVHC, AVHC Lite, M-JPEG, ect? Not as a final output format, but for editing raw footage and working on the timeline. Any preferences?

I've rendered out to DVD directly in 16:9 format and the animations look great on a DVD or BluRay player. No problem there.
But what about the input format?

Sorry if I missed this topic elsewhere. I did search but could not find the info. If there is a thread somewhere, can you point me to it? Thanks!

AllenChicago

Senior Member Location: Chicago (USA) Joined: Jan 28, 2010 22:06 Messages: 151 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 15:07

Hi O.P.,

Here's a nice little thread at the top of this PD9 forum. Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but it's a start. Good luck!
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/16530.page
-Allen

Old Parallax

Newbie Joined: Apr 08, 2011 11:00 Messages: 6 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 15:42

Thanks Allan, I did read that it and was a bit of a help. But not exactly what I need.

In the world of Final Cut Pro and Avid they worry a lot about the consumer formats because they are not made for editing. They may have an iFrame very rarely - like every few seconds. In those editing softwares that can translate into not getting a cut of effect right were you need it. Some folks convert to ProRes format before editing for more precision.

I'm just a little worried about the format because I don't want to be stuck in edit. But maybe it's not a problem in PD9?
No one have issues with not getting a cut, fade or other effect right were you want it?

I may have to take an SD card to the store, shoot on several cameras and give each format a try. Maybe it's not even an issue.

Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 16:50

Old Parallax,

PowerDirector is most happy with AVCHD H.264 format video camera. I personally use a Canon Vixia HF R00 which is a low end consumer Camcorder. Its files are 1920x1080i .mts (M2TS). Powerdirector likes .mp4 video also. For standard Def, MPEG2 is the sweet spot.

For still photos and graphic effects, save them as .PNG to import into Powerdirector. The support for PNG is optimized in Powerdirector. Jpg works also.

Of course image size is important, larger is better. No less that 1920x1080 to work in HD. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Robert2 S

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Apr 22, 2009 05:57 Messages: 1461 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 18:59

Quote:
No one have issues with not getting a cut, fade or other effect right were you want it?

PD9 allows you to split your video down to individual frame level. Also a tip the "." & "," keys allow you to move forward or back one frame at a time, so I think you will be fine getting your cut, fade or effect exactly where you want it. My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn

James Dotson

Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 22:52

I personally like MPEG 2 HD, but there are few cameras that use the codec below professional grade, and they usually use tape, which adds to the work. I find my AVCHD works pretty well, but takes a lot of computer to play it. Make sure you get one that shoots natively in progressive, as most newer ones do. I would definitely stay away from M-JPEG if it were me. The few that I have seen have had serious quality issues. You didn't mention this, but also avoid Xvid. PD has a lot of problems with the video it produces. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

Old Parallax

Newbie Joined: Apr 08, 2011 11:00 Messages: 6 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 23:40

Thanks guys, that's a great help. I'll get AVCHD then. Likely a Canon or Panasonic.

Yes, I've been bringing still in as PNG, usually with an alpha channel and it's working great. The animations I save as a QT .mov in the "animation" setting. This is also worked very well a looks very clean.

Thanks again for the help and your advice.

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Apr 08, 2011 23:59

Quote: PD9 allows you to split your video down to individual frame level. Also a tip the "." & "," keys allow you to move forward or back one frame at a time, so I think you will be fine getting your cut, fade or effect exactly where you want it.

Unless I've missed somthing PD9's timeline only supports 25 or 30/29.97 fps. Eg, I can not get down to individual frames on my 50p material. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

CubbyHouseFilms

Senior Contributor Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 00:12

Hi Jmone

1/100th of a second increments are used in PD9 Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms
My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

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Robert2 S

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Apr 22, 2009 05:57 Messages: 1461 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 00:40

You're right Jim until Cyberlink updates you will be stuck with no 50 or 60fps. My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn

Robert2 S

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Apr 22, 2009 05:57 Messages: 1461 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 00:50

Neil, I just put some test gopro 1280X720 50p footage of a ticking clock second hand into PD. Using the . & , keys I could only get 25 frames per sec tick of the second hand. My youtube channel====> http://www.youtube.com/user/relate2?feature=mhsn

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 00:51

Quote: Hi Jmone

1/100th of a second increments are used in PD9

Quote: You're right Jim until Cyberlink updates you will be stuck with no 50 or 60fps.

Sorry - I don't quite understand Are you saying I can (or can not) get frame level at 50fps? I tried to create a 50fps test file using 50 indivudal images but could find no way of doing it and Dafydd said at this stage PD9 only supported 25/30 on the timeline. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

jmone

Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 00:54

FYI - Here is the thread on the timeline fps options: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/15642.page#76339
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

vn800rider

Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 02:33

As with earlier versions, PD9 is restricted to working with a timeline divided up into either 25 or 30'ish (depending on if you choose to use the drop frame timecode or not) fps.

Your source footage is "converted" for editing and then your production choice sets the output fps. I think the consensus is that frame rate conversion in PD's output can be a little basic - exactly how PD "converts" for display and then "re-converts" for production is not known to me, I'm afraid.

Certainly you cannot edit 50 or 60 frame footage in their native frame rates in PDs timeline.

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.

CubbyHouseFilms

Senior Contributor Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: Jul 14, 2009 04:23 Messages: 2208 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 02:56

Hi Guys

Sorry for the confusion.

I was talking about the video in the storyboard.

You can move the scrubber along it at intervals of 1/100th of a second for editing purposes.

My apologies for confusing the thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 09. 2011 03:40

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms
My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
PD8 Ultra v3022. Computer: Dell Studio 1747, Intel, i7 Q740 1.73 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 560v 1GB, Windows 7 Ult. 64
PD10 Ultra v2023. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD12 Ultra v2930. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD13 Ultim v3516. Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mob. Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
PD16 Live v2101 Computer: HP Pavilion dv7, Intel, i7 2630 2.00 GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI Mob.Radeon HD 6770 2GB, Windows 7 Pre. 64
Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

Cameras: Sony(s) HXR-NX5P, HXR-NX70P, NEX-VG10E, a6300 4k, HDR TG5E, GoPro 4 Black, Canon 6D DSLR

Visit PDtoots. PowerDirector Tutorials, tips, free resources & more. Subscribe!
Full linked Tutorial Catalog - PDtoots happily supports fellow PowerDirector users!

Old Parallax

Newbie Joined: Apr 08, 2011 11:00 Messages: 6 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 11:20

Well I was curious about all this, so I downloaded some video trailers in h.264 1280x720 29.98FPS. I needed them in the Quicktime container as this is what some of the Canon cameras shoot.

PD9 did seem rather good at frame to frame on this. There was the odd skipped frame or maybe double frame here and there, but not enough to worry about. For all I know, those could have been in the original material.

As some of the cameras I'm looking at shoot 60P (I'd rather have 30P) this could be a problem. But some info out there says that the cheaper cameras actually generate 30P but include a meta-tag that tells the player to show each frame twice at double speed. Not sure how true that is, but it does show up here and there across the web.

Anyone else see that?

Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 12:31

Old Parallax, There are some camera samples at this link.

http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/15675.page

More cameras are added from time to time.

Several are Canon cameras, your statement about Quicktime container is incorrect. Most Canon cameras are AVCHD h.264.

My Canon Vixia HF R100 shoots AVCHD h.264 and does not require QuickTime to be installed.

Powerdirector must have Quicktime because it uses the codec for encoding MOV format video.

True, any camera that produces .mov files needs Quicktime to be able to play and edit. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.

Old Parallax

Newbie Joined: Apr 08, 2011 11:00 Messages: 6 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 12:45

Thanks for the link to the thread, Carl. Some good samples there.
Reading about the Canon Powershot 30SX I had thought it recorded quicktime format (.mov), but maybe not. I'll have to go to the store and record some stuff to see. It's all pretty confusing to me reading the specs and reviews.

Anyway, it seems that PD9 has no problems with H.264, whatever the container.

James Dotson

Senior Contributor Location: Tennessee Joined: Aug 24, 2009 20:40 Messages: 3066 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 21:10

QuickTime is good to have installed. It makes the codecs available to other programs. __________________________________
CORNBLOSSOM

Carl312

Senior Contributor Location: Texas, USA Joined: Mar 16, 2010 20:11 Messages: 9090 Offline

Apr 09, 2011 21:17

Jaime-esque just posted that Quicktime is good to be installed, it is also necessary, PD will not run if Quicktime is not installed.

On the Canon Powershot SX30 IS camera, it is mainly a still camera with a Movie mode.
It does ouput .MOV H.264 PCM audio. Which probably requires that Quicktime be present for the MOV codec.

PowerDirector has no problem with that format. Carl312: Windows 10 64-bit 8 GB RAM,AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4 GHz,ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB,240GB SSD,two 1TB HDs.