Continued... I have found this quote, which is relevant, I think:

The active region of a digital television frame, sampled according to CCIR recommendation 601, is 720 pixels by 576 lines for a frame rate of 25 Hz. Using 8 bits for each Y, U or V pixel, the uncompressed bit rates for 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 signals are therefore:


4:2:2: 720 x 576 x 25 x 8 + 360 x 576 x 25 x ( 8 + 8 ) = 166 Mbit/s
4:2:0: 720 x 576 x 25 x 8 + 360 x 288 x 25 x ( 8 + 8 ) = 124 Mbit/s
MPEG-2 is capable of compressing the bit rate of standard-definition 4:2:0 video down to about 3-15 Mbit/s. At the lower bit rates in this range, the impairments introduced by the MPEG-2 coding and decoding process become increasingly objectionable. For digital terrestrial television broadcasting of standard-definition video, a bit rate of around 6 Mbit/s is thought to be a good compromise between picture quality and transmission bandwidth efficiency.

This would surely imply that the viewed image is a letterbox? Or 720px must be up-sampled to 1024?
i7 980x; W7 Pro; 12GB; Nvidia GTX 285; 2x300G Velociraptors in Raid 0; 2x1.5TB Barracuda in Raid 1; 2TB WD Studio Ed.II (eSATA); NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 + MultiSync EA232

OK, now I am beginning to understand what my camera is producing and why my 16:9 DVD is showing 720x576. Beginning, as I am not yet clear on mp2 format and packaging...

But anyone else confused might like to look at this ref: http://tinyurl.com/2cgacc8 which treats it for dummies like me - now there's a project for someone... Video Editing for Dummies.

The above ref is very informative on issues like creating (outside a video editor like PD) graphics for insertion into your video, why stuff looks a bit different on a monitor to the tv screen.

denbigh i7 980x; W7 Pro; 12GB; Nvidia GTX 285; 2x300G Velociraptors in Raid 0; 2x1.5TB Barracuda in Raid 1; 2TB WD Studio Ed.II (eSATA); NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 + MultiSync EA232

Denbigh,
If you'd created VCD and then SVCD I think you'd have picked up what's happening with the DVD a lot easier.

SVCD squashed the video so it would fit onto a CD very much like what the 16:9 is made to appear on an mpeg DVD's 720x576 PAL or 480 NTSC. The TV screen doing the stretching.

For me DVD is now a step back in production. We can stream video at a better resolution (bit rate might not equate) than what the DVD spec is.

Thank you for the input, a very good link for "dummies"

Dafydd

So I have googled VCD and SVCD and understand that pretty much. Why is DVD a step back in production? I am referring strictly to a playable disc, not streaming material.

I realise that we can stream HD, but it does rely on the receiver having a fast link. And it also relies on the web host having a good uploader. For example YouTube has one of the most unreliable uploaders possible. They once used some Google manager for the uploader, but since YouTube now belongs to Google (I think) that facility seems to have vanished, or it is built-in and now just as unreliable. I can only rely on about 0.7-0.8MB/s upload through my ISP so the uploads are a long time and then they crash after quarter of an hour....

(Leave aside, for the moment, the possibility of uploading and hosting on my own web-site - not everyone enjoys that possibility)

I would love to be able to send someone a disc which was better than DVD standard, which they could play on their standard player. Tell me more, and keep it at the DUMMY level. i7 980x; W7 Pro; 12GB; Nvidia GTX 285; 2x300G Velociraptors in Raid 0; 2x1.5TB Barracuda in Raid 1; 2TB WD Studio Ed.II (eSATA); NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 + MultiSync EA232

Hi Denbigh -

There's no need to feel like a dummy. When I read your other post about how A.N.Other editing package creates DVDs compared to PD, I did some trawling through various forums discussing the topic. Many contributors were asking not dissimilar questions... &, by the way, there are some anomalies with the way A.N.Other package does it!

I can't remember what camera you're using Denbigh... but let's say you're shooting 1920X1080 AVCHD @ 24MBps. If you take the clips you've shot, edit them & burn them to DVD, the result (on the disc) is a 720x576 mpeg-2 with a bitrate of about 9.8MBps. The DVD player then "upscales" it for the TV. Some players do that better than others.

That's probably what Dafydd meant by "a step back", but he'll explain that if I've misunderstood. The advantage of sharing files by other means is that "closer to original quality" can be retained.

To make discs that can be played in a standard DVD player, there aren't many options. It's convenient, but it's a compromise. There are, however, many options for shared playback that (though maybe not all so broadly used) are not such a compromise in quality.

Cheers - Tony
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I think Tony covered me well with his input.

My aim as a video editor is to retain the quality of the footage I take. 1080p or 720p is what I want to output.

When I used a VHS tape camera I accepted VCD and then SVCD. When I used miniDV I opted for DVD as the finished item. Streamed footage at the time could not match DVD but it was an area I wanted to exploit.

Players today can handle DivX and Xvid encoded footage

As for sharing a video - streaming is the way I opt to go.

The alternatives would involve a different course of action, with various choice options available within PD.

I opt to play my footage on a TV interface unit by Western Digital. Others create and send out BluRay or AVCHD discs. Whichever you decide I'm sure you want to retain the video quality and resolution.

I don't know whether I've helped here.

Dafydd

Dafydd,

I think what Denbigh is getting at is that if his target audience only has a DVD player than DVD is the only way to go. It is also the lowest common denominator for virtually all households and thus ensures the greatest chance of compatibility. For some streaming HD is not an option as of yet. Q9300 2.5 GHz
4 GB Ram
Nvidia 9800 GT

Thanks for the tips.
I have a HD camera which I can produce blu-ray recordings from using PD. Unfortunately, all my friends and family (bar one who has a PS3) have no blu-ray player yet {this at a time when Sony are beginning to push 3d TV sales}. They can get stuff on YouTube etc. That was, I thought, the end of their HD posssibility. (More importantly the DVD506 is muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch lighter than my HD)
On the other hand, I have a simple Sony DCR-DVD506 which takes not-too-bad video, which ends up fuzzed by whatever editor I use, even if it is simply imported, transitioned with a fade and created onto a DVD. I was surprised that PD gave better results than ANOther, but it is a bit irrelevant. It seems that using any editor will unavoidably make some small degradation.

Going back to the possibilities available with HD camera shooting, Dafydd says players can handle DivX and Xvid - I see my old Toshiba player sports DivX on the front. But I am not sure what I gain? This brings back the question of formats and containers this ref http://tinyurl.com/c8nou shows mp4 as a container and a format MPEG-4, and I think DivX and XVid are formats? But I cannot find what this means in terms of quality? There is also a lot of techy info about codecs and stuff. I have already had to download some stuff called K-Lite Codec Pack 5.9.0. Standard in order to play a streamed video, and I had not a clue as to what to do there - I was offered about 3 different levels, then some extra bolt-on items, can't remember the names - but I would hate to think what my family and friends would say to me asking them to do the same, when I don't even know what I am doing myself (PhD !!).

I like to think I am asking the sort of questions which any dummy user like me might be asking, now or later, so I hope you don’t mind going on answering them, or referring me to a good web source. I have underlined the three ‘questions’ I am now interested in answers to.
I think I have some handle on the answer to formats vs containers. MP4 is a container, MPEG-4 is one of possible formats contained inside the container, but only the codec will know if it can play the audio and video streams (formats) inside the container? And one has to have an appropriate codec or the player will just blow a raspberry of some variety or other?
I didn’t follow the part about the WD TV interface unit?
According to my googling, AVCHD is used in some cameras and seems to be able to put Blu-ray (HD)quality onto a DVD and a Blu-ray player may or may not be able to play it? Is AVCHD a format? What is the container for it?
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James,

Succinctly put. That was my first thrust, and now it is widening somewhat, but with the same fundamental basis - what to do within simple everybody-can-do-no-extra-equipment-needed boundaries.

Denbigh i7 980x; W7 Pro; 12GB; Nvidia GTX 285; 2x300G Velociraptors in Raid 0; 2x1.5TB Barracuda in Raid 1; 2TB WD Studio Ed.II (eSATA); NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 + MultiSync EA232

DivX and Xvid, OK, there are many who'll contradict me on these formats I'm sure. These two formats were often used to share video on the net. The compression meant smaller files and excellent resolution for the size of file provided for download. Then burning onto a DVD as a DivX or Xvid and viewing. Both contain selective choices as to what profile to make and create to get the most out of the codecs. The downside is whether the player could read the codec. DivX in the Pro form offers more and is the better option over the free one for 16:9 and resolution. Xvid cant be accessed through PD (I don't think so, maybe you could try. It's a Free codec/encoder. the same issues about reading apply. Not all player can view Xvid or DivX.

For the Western Digital enquiry please look up the post on the PD7 forum by Bif: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/3522.page#20548
Bif (Bruce). Inexpensive Hardware HD Media Player
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/4718.page

As an "of interest thingy" and I'm trying to write this all before I head for lunch.

My camera's a Sanyo HD2000. It captures to the *.mp4 format. HD of course.
The mp4 format can be placed on any disc, CD or DVD in HD format and stored as a data file. Although it cant be read by the TV connected player I have and the DVD player on the PC struggles to read the 1080p footage the data can be extracted and used elsewhere or moved to a PC's HHD and played.

Right, I have to go.

Denbigh and James, you have the FTP links to my sample video to see and tryout.

James, re your post. Yep, i agree.

Lunch is getting cold.

Dafydd

Hi Denbigh,

As an update to the .mp4 information I posted here.
I just did a quick test using a CD (yes a CD).
The following results only apply to my DVD player and spec.
1080p 59.94frames per second:displayed but stalled on screen with VLC or QT
1080p 29.97fps - displayed but failed etc
1080i 59.94 fields per second: displayed badly, neither vlc or QT liked the file.
720p 29.97 frames per second: played with no problems at all.

To create a 720p mp4 in PD8 please look up this guide:
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/9621.page#43230

As I've probably thrown a spanner in the works Denbigh, you are most welcome to tell me off or ask additional questions.

Dafydd

I have quite a bit of information to digest now, and still have to get my head round the triangle mde from containers,formats,codecs and hope it is not a square or pentangle I have to deal with. So I am going quiet for a while.

denbigh i7 980x; W7 Pro; 12GB; Nvidia GTX 285; 2x300G Velociraptors in Raid 0; 2x1.5TB Barracuda in Raid 1; 2TB WD Studio Ed.II (eSATA); NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 + MultiSync EA232

Bless you. I had a good laugh at your lovely reply.

Dafydd

Just before I do go quiet, I had a look at the WD box refs and yes it looks like a great toy to have. But have things not caught up with the latest generation of TVs? I think they can watch on the TV something which is relayed by WiFi from the PC on the same WiFi home network. Certainly they can stream from the internet this way.

Incidentally, for £25, I have a 'set-top box' for receiving digital on my old analogue telly, it has a USB socket into which you can connect any storage device (it has a limitation that a 128GB drive has to be formated in FAT into 4 32GB drives, but hey...). It can be used for chase play, store broadcast video and read common format video. It isn't HD, there is an HD version a bit more expensive.

Now I promise to be quiet - unless someone gives me a figurative poke in the ribs. i7 980x; W7 Pro; 12GB; Nvidia GTX 285; 2x300G Velociraptors in Raid 0; 2x1.5TB Barracuda in Raid 1; 2TB WD Studio Ed.II (eSATA); NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 + MultiSync EA232