Post removed. Huh? Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms
My Youtube Channel
My Vimeo Channel
PD3.5, 5, 6 & 7. Computer: Dell Dimension 5150, Intel Pen. 2.80 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 256MB, Windows XP Pro!!
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Director Suite 6: PowerDirector 16 Live, PhotoDirector 9, ColorDirector 6, AudioDirector 8

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Thanks for asking. Our time-based effects with ghosting or trailing effects are unfortunately not available for Power Director at this time. The plug-in architecture and minimum hardware requirements for doing that do not exist yet in the PD environment. Sorry!

Please let me know if you have other questions.

Sincerely,
Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com
Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Hi Pixelan users,
Please check out the latest patch, there is a fix aimed at resolving a plug-in response time.
Improves response time when opening Pixelan Transition plug-ins.

Check out Pixelan by visiting (and buying) www.pixelan.com - click

Patch info: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/39179.page#202196

Dafydd

Yes, this is very true and welcomed news. Good job, CyberLink engineering!

Our page that summarizes ALL of our CyberLink PowerDirector plugins is here: http://www.pixelan.com/cyberlink-plugins.htm

Please let me know if you have questions. We are also always very open to ideas and suggestions for other effects plugins that CyberLink PowerDirector users in particular may need. So please suggest here or directly to me at michael at pixelan dot com Thanks!
Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Micheal,

Color Matching / color correction / or some sort of auto color grading to match different scenes to each other would be a very welcome plugin.

I use your excellent FilmTouch 2.0 Pro and it does a really good job of individual scene color grading. However I, and others would like to color match one scene to the next.

thanks,

Rob
PD 14 Ultimate Suite / Win10 Pro x64
1. Gigabyte Brix PRO / i7-4770R Intel Iris Pro 5200 / 16 GB / 1 TB SSD
2. Lenovo X230T / 8GB / Intel HD4000 + ViDock 4 Plus & ASUS Nvidia 660 Ti / Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIZw3GPwKMo&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes indeed, color matching would be a natural addition to FilmTouch Pro for us to consider. Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Quote: Thanks for asking. Our time-based effects with ghosting or trailing effects are unfortunately not available for Power Director at this time. The plug-in architecture and minimum hardware requirements for doing that do not exist yet in the PD environment. Sorry!

Is that because OpenCL?

We do not use OpenCL in any of our effects plugin code... it isn't flexible/powerful enough to do all the cool things we want to do in our effects plugins.

Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

I have been using the GrainPlus 2 plugin to try and add a bit of texture to my film, but it's a problem trying to get the grain to show up without it becoming a horrible blotchy mess. I can display it reasonably well on my screen, but only when rendered at ridiculously high bitrates, making it impracticable for a 30+ minute film, especially for web upload.

I tried some very short clips using all sorts of settings in the plugin and with different render codecs, but even at the highest bitrates PD12 provides, I find it impossible to get the grain to display properly on YouTube or Vimeo, even with their HD settings it's just a blotchy mess.

So is there a secret to using this plugin? Has anyone been able to display film grain on the above websites using this plugin with PD12?

Sorry to hear of the issue. Sounds like it might relate to source > output sizing... although streaming web codecs inherently make fine details such as grain mushy anyways. To help me answer better, please tell me your:

-- Source clip frame size
-- Final output frame size & bitrate
-- Web playback frame size

Sincerely,
Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com
Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Quote: Sorry to hear of the issue. Sounds like it might relate to source > output sizing... although streaming web codecs inherently make fine details such as grain mushy anyways. To help me answer better, please tell me your:

-- Source clip frame size
-- Final output frame size & bitrate
-- Web playback frame size

Sincerely,
Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Hi Michael, thanks for the speedy response.
Delayed action from here in in the UK!.

This is source info for one of my typical shots from the Panasonic GH3:-

Source Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : N=1
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 4mn 0s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 70.0 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 71.7 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.408
Stream size : 1.96 GiB (98%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-05-31 17:54:13
Tagged date : UTC 2001-09-15 07:12:15
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

As previously mentioned I have tried most combinations of output formats and profiles from PD12 to try and get decent grain (I'm after the fine grain setting 0-1) although did try most of the available GrainPlus 2 settings, such as size, density, motion, colour, grey.

I tend to stick with the following PD12 custom render profile, as I find it provides a 'clean' image for my current film with few compression artefacts visible; however I would have to use slightly higher compression as my Vimeo Plus account is restricted to 5GB upload per week and my film is 7.32GB using this output profile:-

Output: Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Sony PSP
Codec ID : MSNV
File size : 7.32 GiB
Duration : 32mn 42s
Overall bit rate : 32.1 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-10-19 19:46:42
Tagged date : UTC 2014-10-19 19:46:42

Output: Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=2, N=29
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 32mn 42s
Source duration : 32mn 42s
Bit rate : 30.6 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.615
Stream size : 6.99 GiB (95%)
Source stream size : 7.28 GiB (99%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-10-19 19:46:42
Tagged date : UTC 2014-10-19 19:46:42
mdhd_Duration : 1962789

You will notice that the output frame rate is changed to 24fps rather than the original 23.976fps, this is required for the audio to remain in sync throughout the duration of the film, as for some weird reason rendering in PD12 to this custom profile causes the audio to drift by the difference of the two frame rates. However when trying GrainPlus 2 the ouput frame rate was the same as the source frame rate.

Not sure what you mean re- the web playback frame size:
I'm viewing Vimeo and YouTube playback on:

Display Graphics: Display adapter type 2X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680M
Total available graphics memory 12011 MB
Dedicated graphics memory 4096 MB
Dedicated system memory 0 MB
Shared system memory 7915 MB
Display adapter driver version 9.18.13.4411
Primary monitor resolution 1920x1080
DirectX version DirectX 10

I do like the film grain shimmer, but may have to accept that film grain will be unsuitable for web display with this particular film (or any?), and just go for the non-textured look, but must admit that I'm making good use of your FilmTouch2 Pro plugin (subtle look) and the vignette - one consolation :

If you can give me any pointers of settings and codecs which will work on preferably the Vimeo platform, that would be appreciated, as I have some 'shorts' in the pipeline, which I would like to give a very artsy, flowing look, with plenty of larger grain akin to the 16mm film.

Regards
Lawrence

Thanks for the extra info. There's nothing wrong with your setup... it is essentially an unavoidable compression problem. Compression is generally based on the assumption that:
-- Many neighbor pixels have a similar value.
-- Many pixels have similar value in adjacent frames.

A film grain's random, dynamic noise makes both of the above conditions challenging for a codec. To keep the bitrate sufficiently low in such bad conditions, the codec will discard some information which will lower the visual quality, thus either mushing the filmic grain or making it hard to see at all. This is why it is not generally useful for web streaming movies, and why you are seeing the problem.

Try reducing the strength of the grain and/or lowering the grain's density and movement speed. That might help somewhat.

Sorry we do not have a better answer for you. It's basically an inherent issue with streaming movies.

Please let me know if you have questions. Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Thanks for info. I will run some more trials as suggested.

It just puzzles me as to why I can watch other films on Vimeo with the grain displayed and the likes of Rgrain and Gorilla Grain can show it in their promo shots, although I must say that some of their grain appear to have suffered from compression and look a bit on the blotchy side!

Regards

Please point me to one or more of the streaming movies you are referring to with good looking grain. It would be interesting to see their bitrate, frame size/rate, and what codec was used.

Sincerely,
Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

This one springs to mind https://vimeo.com/41179254 although if you search 'film grain' you will see a host of grain promo shots.

Regards

Nice example! What I see there (very subtle moving filmic grain) looks possible with the GrainPlus plugin of our CreativEase video effects, too... try tweaking the settings as I suggested above to get such a look within your bandwidth requirements. There's no way I can see the size or bitrate of the original vimeo movie, unfortunately. The only other factor I can think of that might be affecting you is something in the PD12 range of available codecs and compression settings could be limiting your possibilities.

Sincerely,
Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Thanks Michael,

What I will do over the next few days is to try some more settings with your GrainPlus2 plugin as you suggest, but render the clip to Raw Lossless, then use something like my Prism Video File Converter to compress for upload, rather than compressing with the limited PD12 settings.

Thanks for all your help.

Regards
Lawrence

UPDATE

I am pleased to say that following numerous trial renders and uploads to Vimeo, I have managed to identify a range of settings in the GrainPlus2 plugin, which are capable of maintaining grain visibility despite the Vimeo site file compression used; which do not end up looking as if it has been applied with a partially blocked spray gun!

For those interested the settings are as follows:-

Pixelan GrainPlus2 GUI:
Strength > 15, Density < 65, Motion approx. 70, Light & Dark, Mode = RGB = 100, Blend = Screen > 15 < 30
Grain Size Settings: 0 = Fine, 1 = Medium

You will find the screen blend mode will lighten the image, so a balance has to be taken between image brightness and grain visibility.

Additionally the upload bitrate needs to be greater than 15,000 Kbps, preferably 20,000 Kbps, the greater the bitrate, the better the grain visibility.

I used MPEG-4 format (24fps, Progressive, CABAC, High Profile and High Quality) for the trials, as this is the format I prefer to select in PD12 due to the availability of the selectable parameters which produce a better quality Audio & Video file without visible macro-blocking, or low dynamic range audio in the downloaded video.

You will find these settings unsuitable for viewing direct on PC, as they will look too grainy and harsh, but I believe this is what enables it to survive the Vimeo compressor, producing a really nice grain when viewed from the site, on PC, TV, iPad etc.

Obviously the use of those higher bitrates, means larger file sizes, so for my current 33 min. project I've decided not to use grain effect and just opt for one of the Pixelan FilmTouch2 Pro looks - I will certainly be using the grain effect for my next shorter project!

Lawrence,

Thanks for posting your update! Awesome to read your findings and that a useful solution was found with GrainPlus 2 from our CreativEase video effects plugins suite. Thanks for persevering through that process. With lower bitrate renders, film grains can surely be tricky to get "just right". As you found, upping the bitrate helps quite a bit. I'm also glad that our FilmTouch 2 film looks plugin worked out for you as a solution for your longer movies.
Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com

Help! Are plugins compatible with PD13? I've just installed the trial as I am waiting on the discs package to arrive and my Pixelans haven't appeared in the program.

Sorry for the confusion. ALL of our PowerDirector plugins, which is our entire range of video effects and transitions plugins, are fully compatible with PowerDirector 13. My guess is that you are unfamiliar with where to look to find the plugin(s). Please see the "Getting Started" file that was shown after installing the demo but it also available anytime in your Start > All Programs > Pixelan > [plugin name] > menu. If there is still a problem and they are not appearing there, it could be a minor Windows Registry issue on your computer that is easy to fix. In that case, please email us directly at support@pixelan.com and we can walk you through the steps of solving that in a few minutes. Thanks.

Please let me know if you have questions. Sincerely,

Michael Feerer
Pixelan Software
http://www.pixelan.com