SVRT not working with video captured on iPhone, why?

oRBIT2002

Newbie Joined: Aug 02, 2009 09:23 Messages: 27 Offline

Solved by

Apr 17, 2015 14:48

I capture all my movieclips with my iPhone with an app called "MoviePro" which allows 1080p50 movies which looks pretty amazing (in daylight anyway ). However I can't use SVRT when editing these clips. Is there a reason for this?

Here's how an examplevideo looks with Mediainfo, if it is useful for anyone:

Video

ID :
1ID : 1

Format :
AVCFormat : AVC

Format/Info :
Advanced Video CodecFormat/Info : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile :
High@L4.2Format profile : High@L4.2

Format settings, CABAC :
YesFormat settings, CABAC : Yes

Format settings, ReFrames :
1 frameFormat settings, ReFrames : 1 frame

Format settings, GOP :
M=1, N=50Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=50

Codec ID :
avc1Codec ID : avc1

Codec ID/Info :
Advanced Video CodingCodec ID/Info : Advanced Video
Coding

Duration :
34s 785msDuration : 34s 785ms

Bit rate :
23.4 MbpsBit rate : 23.4 Mbps

Width :
1 920 pixelsWidth : 1 920 pixels

Height :
1 080 pixelsHeight : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio :
16:9Display aspect ratio : 16:9

Frame rate mode :
VariableFrame rate mode : Variable

Frame rate :
50.079 fpsFrame rate : 50.079 fps

Minimum frame rate :
50.000 fpsMinimum frame rate : 50.000 fps

Maximum frame rate :
54.545 fpsMaximum frame rate : 54.545 fps

Color space :
YUVColor space : YUV

Chroma subsampling :
4:2:0Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0

Bit depth :
8 bitsBit depth : 8 bits

Scan type :
ProgressiveScan type : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :
0.225Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.225

Stream size :
96.9 MiB (99%)Stream size : 96.9 MiB (99%)

Title :
Core Media VideoTitle : Core Media Video

Encoded date :
UTC 2014-12-30 14:12:34Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-30
14:12:34

Tagged date :
UTC 2014-12-30 14:13:08Tagged date : UTC 2014-12-30
14:13:08

Color primaries :
BT.709Color primaries : BT.709

Transfer characteristics :
BT.709Transfer characteristics : BT.709

Matrix coefficients :
BT.601Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Color range :
Full

Audio

ID :
2ID : 2

Format :
AACFormat : AAC

Format/Info :
Advanced Audio CodecFormat/Info : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile :
LCFormat profile : LC

Codec ID :
40Codec ID : 40

Duration :
34s 824msDuration : 34s 824ms

Source duration :
34s 853msSource duration : 34s 853ms

Bit rate mode :
ConstantBit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate :
108 KbpsBit rate : 108 Kbps

Nominal bit rate :
128 KbpsNominal bit rate : 128 Kbps

Channel(s) :
2 channelsChannel(s) : 2 channels

Channel positions :
Front: L RChannel positions : Front: L R

Sampling rate :
44.1 KHzSampling rate : 44.1 KHz

Compression mode :
LossyCompression mode : Lossy

Stream size :
457 KiB (0%)Stream size : 457 KiB (0%)

Source stream size :
458 KiB (0%)Source stream size : 458 KiB (0%)

Title :
Core Media AudioTitle : Core Media Audio

Encoded date :
UTC 2014-12-30 14:12:34Encoded date : UTC 2014-12-30
14:12:34

Tagged date :
UTC 2014-12-30 14:13:08

delboy35

Newbie Location: Scotland Joined: Apr 12, 2015 17:21 Messages: 23 Offline

Apr 17, 2015 18:47

You dont say what output format your trying to render to.This is from cyberlink:

Intelligent SVRT can be applied to video clips in the MPEG-1, MPEG-2, H.264 and DV-AVI (Type I) formats
and only works if:
The frame rate, frame size, and file format are the same as those of the destination production profile.
The bitrate is similar to that of the destination production profile
The TV format is the same as that of the destination production profile.

variable frame rate will cause problems.If it was me i would render your file to one of the h264/avc profiles
and edit/smart render with that.

EKSVid

Senior Member Joined: Aug 07, 2014 00:07 Messages: 150 Offline

Apr 18, 2015 01:24

Look at this link
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/43197.page

As delboy35 said, variable frame rate might be your issue also.
The above link has info on how to fix that.
Android user helping an Apple user - maybe Win8.1 Pro x64 / Dual x5670 / 24GB / GTX960 4GB / 240GB SSD + 640GB HDD / PD13 Ultimate

oRBIT2002

Newbie Joined: Aug 02, 2009 09:23 Messages: 27 Offline

Apr 18, 2015 03:46

Reencoding the clip obviously fixes the problem (vfr is the problem obviously), but it's pretty stupid to do since the whole idea of svrt is lost in the process. Quality is degraded when recoding and what's the point then with svrt?
I don't think there's a lossless way of recoding vfr-video to constant frame rate.

Let's hope cyberlink can fix this (however I doubt it).

BarryTheCrab

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Nov 06, 2008 22:18 Messages: 6240 Offline

Apr 18, 2015 08:13

oRBIT2002,
Stupid? Nobody is twisting your arm to force you to use SVRT. A decent computer should handle those clips without trouble, anyway. Also, if you alter the clips or add edits, using a stabilizer, fixing color, special FX, music, titles, ANYTHING, then SVRT will not be utilized in that section of timeline. I personally edit so aggressively I rarely get to make use of SVRT, ever. I get my best results by trying to match file formats as close as possible, including making custom profiles, if necessary. Have you tried that route yet? It's not difficult, you already have the file information, and we'll show you how if you're not sure on that, it's easy. HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
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oRBIT2002

Newbie Joined: Aug 02, 2009 09:23 Messages: 27 Offline

Apr 18, 2015 14:36

I'm using custom profiles most of the time but am obviously interested in SVRT since it both saves time and preserves quality.
The point of SVRT is lost when you have to first recode the clip to make it "SVRT-compliant", don't you think?

delboy35

Newbie Location: Scotland Joined: Apr 12, 2015 17:21 Messages: 23 Offline

Apr 18, 2015 20:10

No it isnt.Your misunderstanding the use of SVRT.You render once and then any later changes are smart rendered which is much faster and preserves quality since it only encodes at the joins .The bulk of the video is just a direct stream copy.

I often re-encode files to be SVRT compliant and cant tell the difference between the input and output in terms of quality.I use it a lot and heres an example of why:Say ive got 10 music videos and ive made them all SVRT compliant,initially i havnt gained anything but later i decide to-

make edits to videos 3, 6 and 8
combine scenes from videoes 1,5, 6 and 10 to make a new video
merge the complete videos 4 and 7 into one longer one.
etc, etc

That has just saved me 5 whole video re-encodes.

SVRT is just an optional tool to save time in certain editing situations.It has saved me hours of time.
I dont see anything stupid about it.If I saw any quality loss i wouldnt be using it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 18. 2015 20:15

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Apr 18, 2015 20:48

Can someone enlighten me here? It's not really to do with SVRT.

I've read in various forums of other NLEs about clips with VFR going out of sync as the video progresses in playback. I've only ever edited short iPhone clips & haven't noticed that in PDR.

Can PDR produce a video with VFR? If not, that would be one good reason why SVRT is irrelevant in oRBIT2002's case.

Can any other NLE render a video with VFR?

What video formats would be compatible with VFR?

I'm asking because I don't know, so they're potentially silly questions!

Cheers - Tony
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GGRussell

Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline

Apr 19, 2015 09:31

As far as I know Variable Frame rate is only used in mobile devices because like VBR it can reduce file size further. I haven't seen any camcorder or digital camera use it. Although that doesn't mean there isn't one out there that does.

I checked the other NLEs that I own and they do not support VFR output. But Handbrake which only transcodes does support it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Apr 19. 2015 09:35

Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA

oRBIT2002

Newbie Joined: Aug 02, 2009 09:23 Messages: 27 Offline

Apr 19, 2015 13:40

I don't think I've misunderstood the use of SVRT. SVRT's main purpose is to preserve quality = doesn't recode again.

Assume this scenario. You have a file (version 1, original), you recode to be SVRT-compliant (now you have version 2 = recoded. Quality *IS* degraded even if it isn't always visible). You edit your movie together and SVRT kicks in, and it doesn't on your transitions etc (fully normal). You end up with version 3 of the file. Parts of the movie has been recoded 2 times (=less quality).

If you wan't *maxiumum quality* you don't *recode* your files to be SVRT-compliant, because you will loose quality (even if it sometimes hard to detect).

Is it unclear?

ynotfish

Senior Contributor Location: N.S.W. Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 02:06 Messages: 9977 Offline

Apr 19, 2015 14:36

Hi oRBIT2002 -

That's why I was wondering about those questions I posted... if (eventually) the VFR clips from an iPhone have to be re-rendered into a CFR format, it's unavoidable. Hence the question, because I didn't know if PDR could even produce a file with a variable frame rate. Do you see what I mean?

You're right of course. Any re-rendering or conversion of a video is going to have an impact on quality. We just try to minimise that. SVRT simply offers a format/profile that matches to original clip (if it's available) & saves us a bit of thinking.

Thanks Gary for the information. I like to try to get a handle on these things.

Cheers - Tony
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GGRussell

Senior Contributor Joined: Jan 08, 2012 11:38 Messages: 709 Offline

Apr 19, 2015 14:37

Sounds like you got the idea. I've never used SVRT with PD, but another NLE that I used awhile back, the parts that were re-coded looked bad and was very obvious. Granted those files weren't HD and I've never tried it with HD footage. Personally, I would rather have all the footage be recoded and the quality be the same throughout. Intel i7 4770k, 16GB, GTX1060 3GB, Two 240GB SSD, 4TB HD, Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder, Sony SLT-A65VK for still images, Windows 10 Pro, 64bit
Gary Russell -- TN USA

delboy35

Newbie Location: Scotland Joined: Apr 12, 2015 17:21 Messages: 23 Offline

Apr 19, 2015 16:27

oORBIT2002 Youve misunderstood again. I didnt mean re-encode before placing on timeline

After ive edited and added any special effects,i have to render.At that point i choose a SVRT compliant profile so later on if idecide to make quick edits its a lot faster.

I and others were just trying to help you out and suggest a workaround to the problem that would enable you to smart render and still produce an output that looks great.I wish i hadnt bothered.

Take your sarcasm to apple on the iphone forum,if they have one and ask why their expensive telephone is incapable of recording video at a constant frame rate. Its not a powerdirector problem its an iphone one.

oRBIT2002

Newbie Joined: Aug 02, 2009 09:23 Messages: 27 Offline

Apr 20, 2015 01:39

I've submitted this issue to Cyberlink support to see if it's anything they can do.
I hope they're interesting in fixing this feature since there's a few more iPhone-users out there than just me.

Wonder if other smartphones than iPhone have this "problem" with VFR only?

EKSVid

Senior Member Joined: Aug 07, 2014 00:07 Messages: 150 Offline

Apr 20, 2015 09:05

oRBIT2002, yes other phones have the same issue.
See the link I send you before - that is from a Samsung SIII phone (Android).
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/43197.page

I also add a link to both these posts to the suggestion post in this forum:
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/100/40351.page

Initially I was also disappointed that SVRT did not work with this format - but at the end of the day you usually don't want your final production in VR format since it is going to a (DVD, Media players etz) and you end up having to do a full render (covert) at some point in any case.

Also if you search for (VR) - you will find that other editors (like Adobe) have the same problem.

My guess is it is not a simple thing to add full support for VR to these products but with the growth of video from these devices I would expect more motivation will come

Win8.1 Pro x64 / Dual x5670 / 24GB / GTX960 4GB / 240GB SSD + 640GB HDD / PD13 Ultimate