These posts about Atmos really annoy me, so I'm going to jump in and give it my 2c.

A receiver with Dolby Atmos is able to upscale standard non ATMOS tracks to be able to utilise the overhead and extra speakers as it is in some cases a Replacement for Dolby Prologic IIx/z.

So if PDVD is able to support a prologic renderer why would it then not be able to read and distribute the minimal data included in a THD7.1 audio track to upmix to atmos?

What I'm not quite understanding is why people are going on about a PC only being able to support up to 8 channels. What does that matter?

Right there is a 5.1.2 ATMOS Set up.

Sure its not the most desired format, but it would still give a decent 3D Audio Space.

And to be able to tell your computer that you are sacrificing your Rear Left and rights for Height Left and Rights should be a cake walk for mostly any PC and Prosumer Media player such as Power DVD.

The other thing I don't understand, and if someone can please educate me on this (Please). What makes a Dolby Atmos game any different to the object based audio games that we already have? Height? And if that is it, surely it will make its way to the PC soon anyway, yea?

Luek. Finally someone who can see this from a logical standpoint.
You are correct the only difference with an atmos game is the height speakers. There isn't a game out yet that supports atmos so we'll have to wait and see how it's implemented.
I find it really shocking that cyberlink can't clarify their position on this issue.
People have been asking for this feature for over a year.
I have sent questions to customer support and I haven't received one bit of info back, not even a reply!
Doesn't look good!
Cyberlink are too interested in these silly apps and cloud storage etc. it's not the all in one software solution for media playback it touts itself to be!
They've lost focus somewhere down the line and its knocked their development priorities off kilter.
I'd ask for DTSX decoding to analogue too but apparently I'm the only one who would use it! 😀
I'm sure another competitor will come along and clear up.
I bet everyone will jump ship as they want full UHD support and decoding whilst supporting the new UHD optional sound formats. It's not going to be cloud storage and apps that keep their hardcore customers, that's for sure!
Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

Quote: I apologise if I came across harsh but I don't like being patronised much.

Maybe you should not do to others what you don't like to be victim of then. Reread your posts since you started that crusade, and you'll realize why people answer you that way... because that's the way you talk to them, and it's even worse when you don't know even half of what the people you are talking to know about Dolby Amos.

You may not care where others work and what equipment they have, but it's obvious now that you are an amateur who spent money on an incredible amount of expensive crap you assembled without even knowing what would be the most efficient for the use you were intending... or were you trying to impress your neighbors and visitors?

I normally don't feed trolls but I have to ask.....
I'm an amateur what exactly? Bluray watcher? An amateur powerdvder? An amateur Dolby atmos seteruperer?

Why would I care where someone works or what equipment they have when all I want is some info on cyberlink supporting Dolby atmos decoding in powerdvd?
People coming on forums to tell people to buy what they have bought, telling people what they ask for is impossible in an extremely patronising way gets people's backs up yes.
I read the comments back and I still stand by all I said.
It's called the consequence of your actions.

My equipment might be expensive crap to you but its all relative.
If someone has spent less money than you on a similar product you see it as cheap junk, if someone spends more
money on a similar product you see it as a waste of money.
It's human nature, everyone does it.

In what way isn't my equipment setup efficiently for the use I was intending exactly? (which is also extremely assumptions on your part)
I'm looking for the best sound quality I can afford I love everything to do with sound, it my passion.
If my visitors or neighbours are impressed as a result of that you'd have to ask them but it's not my priority.
Anyway great help with the thread. You didn't even mange to mention atmos once, that's trolling and against forum rules I believe.
Just came on to have a pop at me and stick up for your friend?
How quaint!
What are you recommendations? I'd love to get the advice of a 'pro'
Sell all my gear and buy an onkyo?

Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

And over one year later, "Billy" still doesn't understand that since his hardware doesn't have a secure audio path, decoding Dolby Atmos in full quality with analog output won't happen. My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Ahh korrigan I was wondering when you'd raise your ugly head.
I proved to you in the old atmos thread for powerdvd 14 that my system decodes 7.1 DTS MA perfectly, (which it wouldn't if what you say is true)
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/50/39616.page
Why bring it up again when it clearly doesn't apply?

Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

I deeply suspect that PowerDVD 15 wont ever support UHDBD. There is no GPU acceleration for UHD colour ranges. Same with ATMOS on the sound side.

Yes PowerDVD does do full gpu acceleration if you have a supporting card like the Nvidia GTX960 on 4k HEVC content, but only lower bit colour content. With UHDBD youll get UHD colour content.

So thats why Im convinced itll be a future PowerDVD release, say Powerdvd 16 that will properly address these things (I hope!)

That's what I was saying when powerDVD 14 was out.
It'll be the next version but nada.
Hopefully they'll implement it soon as there's no way I'm waiting until April next year for it! Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

Quote: That's what I was saying when powerDVD 14 was out.
It'll be the next version but nada.
Hopefully they'll implement it soon as there's no way I'm waiting until April next year for it!

And what are you going to do otherwise? Stomp your feet, and throw a fit ? My collection: http://www.blu-ray.com/community/collection.php?u=194008&action=showcategory&category=1&categoryid=7

Good things come to those who wait!
All I wanted was a reply from someone at cyberlink confirming or denying if they are going to implement it.
All the nay sayers coming in saying it isn't technically possible is not true and is definitely not helping. Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

Quote: Good things come to those who wait!
All I wanted was a reply from someone at cyberlink confirming or denying if they are going to implement it.
All the nay sayers coming in saying it isn't technically possible is not true and is definitely not helping.

Personally, I never said it wasn't technically feasible. It obviously is. Trinnov is doing it and selling it for $30000.

I only said it didn't make any business sense for Cyberlink to invest a lot of man hours in a develepment that matters to the minority of a minority of a minority, especially when Atmos and DTS:X are perfectly supported when bitstreaming HD Audio tracks to an AVR able to decode these formats.

I thought I was helping suggesting you'd be more likely to be successful asking for people like jRiver, but you didn't like my help. It doesn't mean I didn't mean to be helpful.

Sometimes, being realistic saves a lot of energy

To give you an example, I only use PDVD for 3D Bluray (or when I need full BD Menus) as it doesn't support MadVR, and I could also waste my time here asking for MadVR support, but as it's unlikely to ever happen (for exactly the same reason, too few people - including you - care about this), I tried to find ways to play my content the way I wanted to. Wouldn't I prefer it if PowerDVD (or TMT at the time) supported MadVR? Sure, I would. But is there a chance in hell for it to happen? Not one.

Anyway no one is stopping you from hoping, and I sincerely hope your wish will be granted

I think that Manni01 is right. But this is only my opinion at this topic.

It doesn't seem like anyone can do it yet.
The first company to do so will make a lot of money.
I find it crazy to believe you don't think it makes business sense when powerdvd decodes all the other formats to analogue, including DTS MA and Dolby HD.
Was that an error in your opinion? You don't think the should have?
PowerDVD is a PC all in one solution. All in the box, not just there to pass through the signal for another box to decode.
That entirely misses the point and fundamental reason PowerDVD was created for in the first place.
It's supporting new features (like atmos to analogue) that no one else supports which will keep the sales coming in.
So contrary to your opinion it makes perfect business sense and follows the same logic that cyberlink applied to the previous formats as I mentioned earlier.
You need to think past your own opinions and setup.
Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

There is no error in my opinion, you just don't seem to be listening to what I have been trying to explain, so I'll try to sum it up one last time:

• The market for immersive sound is minuscule right now. The market for playing immersive sound on a PC is a fraction of that market, and PDVD already caters for 99% of that market (bitstream the HD Audio track to an Atmos compatible AVR and you play Atmos fine). The market for playing immersive sound on analog audio from a PC is a fraction of that market. We're talking a few hundred of people worldwide, at most.


• There is no standard hardware support in PC motherboards for more than 7.1 analog channels. You need a minimum of 9.1 channels to support Atmos (I guess you could do 5.1.2 but there is no point in doing that when 7.1 would give you more). Dedicated hardware needed to support more than 7.1 analog audio out costs more than the software itself (PDVD). This further reduces the potential market.


• There is a huge difference between HD audio formats like DTS HD which are channel-based, so the softare only has to decode the streams and send send to each channel, and object-based formats like Atmos where the software would have not only to decode the ear level channels (5.1 or 7.1) but also render the position of the objects, based on the specifics of each speaker layout (rendering will be different for a 5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.1.4, 9.1.2 layout). This makes the feature a lot more complicated to implement, not to mention license fees for the Atmos software. A PC can do it. Trinnov does it, and charges $30000 because the market is minuscule, so the only way for them to recoup their investment is to charge astronomical prices.


• Those who are interested in this feature- decoding Atmos - can get their AVR decode AND RENDER Atmos in their AVR. I do this today with PDVD. I only have to bitstream HD Audio to my AVR. So the title of this thread is misleading. PowerDVD supports Atmos (and soon DTS:X) perfectly. It just doesn't decode and render it because there is no standard hardware support for more than 7.1 analog channels and because there is no need to do it to cover 99% of the already minuscule market of those interested in playing immersive audio from their PC.


• The one box concept is fine but only applies to stereo, if you play audio on headphones or PC Speakers. Otherwise, you need an amplifier to power your speakers (unless you use only powered speakers). PDVD was made initially to play DVDs and Bluray on a computer (desktop or laptop) using headphones or PC speakers. That's the huge majority of its market. That's where most of the sales are. The HTPC crowd - us - is a very small fraction of that. The HTPC crowd not using an AVR to get better sound - you - is a minuscule fraction of that.


• If Cyberlink doesn't spend the huge amount of development time - way superior to decoding HD Audio as you have to basically do what $1000+ AVRs do - they will lose 0% of their turnover. If they spend the time developing this feature, they will never recoup that money in additional licenses sold (money they wouldn't have made otherwise) and if they sell it as an option for those like you who would be willing to pay for it, they will never sell enough to recoup their investment either. This is called a business decision. If there is a market, I'll make a product if I can sell it for the right price. Otherwise, if I want to stay in business, I stay away.


• Right now, based on this thread, there are a handful of people who are interested in Atmos decoding by PDVD. There are like 15 Atmos titles available on bluray. Maybe a few thousands consumers have installed an Atmos setup around the world using an HTPC as a main source for their content, and NONE OF THEM - except you and a few others - need PowerDVD to decode it, most of them are perfectly happy to have the player bitstream the HD Audio track to let their AVR decode the metadata and render Atmos in their dedicated room / living room.


• Things - the number of Atmos and DTS:X titles - might change with UHD Bluray, but there is no guarantee that PowerDVD will ever support UHD Bluray. Not because PCs can't do it - you'd only need a BDXL player and a compatible GPU - just because granting a software license is what led to Blurays AACS being cracked, so the BDA might never give a license to a software PC Player in order to prevent AACS 2.0 from being cracked immediately after that. Also, given how streaming/downloads are taking over physical media, I'm not even sure Cyberlink will see a market for UHD Bluray and would invest the time and license fees to try to cater for it. I'd love to see a version of PDVD playing UHD Bluray, but I'm not convinced it will happen.


• One thing that might happen is support for Headphone:X, as this would rely on implementing a mainstream DTS technology on headphones, would be realistic - no huge development, they just have to get a license for the existing DTS software - and would reach a sizeable market within their target market (laptop/desktop users with heaphones). If Atmos comes up with a similar technology (Atmos decoding a dedicated track into headphones to simulate immersive sound), that might happen too.


• You need to think past your own opinion and setup You can either take the above into acccount, and try to find other ways - more realistic ways - to get Atmos decoded and rendered on your system (namely, by an AVR supporting Atmos and bitstream the movie to it), or you can keep barking at that tree hoping Cyberlink will make a poor business decision.


• By the way, I would love it if Cyberlink decided to suddenly become a hi-fi company, supported decoding and rendering of immersive sound formats and supported MadVR for calibration and picture processing. Unfortunately, it has zero chances to happen. Cyberlink is a mainstream company. They cater for the masses. The masses don't even know what Atmos is, and when they find out they couldn't care less because they don't even have a 5.1 speaker layout and don't want to drill holes in their ceiling. They watch movies on their TVs with the TV speakers, of if they are a bit refined, they have a soundbar. So I'm using other tools like MyMovies, MPC-BE, LAV and MadVR to get the quality I'm after, both from a sound quality point of view and from a picture quality point of view. I only use PDVD when I need full BD Menus or to play 3D Blurays.


• If there was hardware and software support, I would love to do what you've done and forget about having to upgrade my AVR everytime a new format appears. But as it's not going to happen for a price that I can justify (I'm not ready to pay $30000 for a Trinnov), I'm just replacing my 9 months old X5200W with an X7200W to get HDCP 2.2 and DTS:X support (along with Atmos and Auro 3D which I already had with the X5200W). It's annoying but it's not the end of the world. And it's much cheaper than a Trinnov or a Datasat...


• I'm not writing all this to argue with you, only to save you from hoping for something that has IMHO zero chances of happening. But if you want to keep hoping, please do, I'm not your enemy

I understand and can appreciate some of your points but if all you say is true then cyberlink might as well shut up shop now.

if they aren't going to support 4K bluray, Dolby atmos/DTS to analogue (like they supported with all other audio formats) there is no point in buying powerdvd. In fact there's no point in powerdvd. They are choosing to make themselves irrelevant in the market place through lack of differentiation and not offering many (if any) Unique selling points.

People would be better off buying a networked bluray player/media player and bit stream to their decoder/amp that way.

You say most people use powerdvd listening to headphones or speakers but these are analogue. This isn't bit streamed.

I'd assume (seeing that assumption is what your entire argument is based on) more people use powerdvd listening through analogue outputs than they do bit streaming to an amp that's for sure.

you still didn't answer my question regarding if you think it was a bad business idea for cyberlink to support analogue decoding of DTS MA and Dolby true HD? They used to do analogue decoding and now they don't?

did it make good business sense then but not make good business sense now?

there lies the fundamental contradiction in your argument.

Anyway, we are going round in circles here.

Do you work for cyberlink? How do you know how many people use powerdvd for surround analogue decoding? Are you just pulling these figures out of thin air?

why can't a representative of cyberlink just put a post up to clarify where they stand on Dolby atmos?

or is this how they reply to potential customers asking genuine questions by incognito staff pretending to be regular forum users?

Does anyone from cyberlink dare clarify their position on atmos officially? I mean we've only been asking for well over a year over two revisions of their software. If out of manners or just general goodwill over anything else.

unless you like seeing this atmos thread bumped every few weeks until either cyberlink reply or we get Dolby atmos to analogue.

by cyberlink not officially replying on here or through my messages to customer service it shows they don't want to clarify their position as they still havn't worked out wether to support it yet or not. Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
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Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

A lot of people are using decoding to analog. There is just no need for the vast majority of them to decode full Atmos/DTS:X to analog.

People using headphones and PC speakers or even 7.1 speakers CAN play Atmos and DTS:X tracks. There is no need for them to get specific Atmos decoding. Atmos/DTS:X tracks are fully backwards compatible with Dolby TrueHD and DTS:HD. You play the Atmos track or the DTS:X track, and the Dolby TrueHD/DTS:HD core can be decoded up to 7.1 analog if you want to. Of if you want full Atmos/DTS:X and you simply bitstream the track to an AVR (which is what most people with a dedicated home theatre room would do anyway). There is just no sizeable market for analog decoding of full Atmos/DTS:X, but PDVD plays Atmos/DTS:X tracks without any problem for 99.99% of its audience.

The only thing you might see IMHO is support for Headphone:X (simulation of DTS:X immersive sound for headphones) because this comes in a separate track and Cyberlink can easily license the technology from DTS. There is a Headphone:X track in Hunger Games Mockingjay for example. This is likely to be popular, because it relies on hardware every one has and uses on their desktop, laptop, tablet, phone, everything that the majority of PDVD users actually use: headphones.

Likewise, if Dolby comes up with a similar immersive track for headphones, PDVD will likely add support for it, because there is a likely return on investment: 1) it's easy to implement 2) there is standard hardware support in all PCs and 3) it's relevant for the majority of its user base. Therefore it would be a good business decision to implement it.

Exactly the opposite of implementing decoding Atmos/DTS:X to analog: 1) it's complex (expensive) to implement 2) there is no standard hardware support for it and 3) the demand for it is minuscule, it's only the portion of their user base who are using an HTPC to playback movies in a dedicated room with more than 7.1 speakers (i.e. you and me, but a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of PDVD users) AND are not happy to bitstream the Atmos track to an AVR (you, an even smaller minority).

Here is a question for you (I'm not being facitious, so please answer it): how big do you think the portion of PDVD's user base you represent - those who need Atmos decoding to analog because they have more than 7.1 speakers installed and are not happy to bitstream the track to their AVR - is? You're saying that Cyberlink could close if they don't provide a solution for these users, which represent in my opinion less than 0.01% of their user base. How big do you think the market is for them to implement this?

I'm sorry if you can't see the logic of this, but I respect your position. I even hope I'll be proved wrong .

Where are you getting your figures from? You still haven't answered my question of why bother decoding DTS HD and Dolby True HD to analogue and not Dolby atmos?
How can one make business sense and the other not?
Also there is a Dolby atmos headphone standard already.
So what you saying is it's ok to decode Dolby atmos to analogue if is for fake phasing pseudo surround headphone tech but not for real analogue outputs?
Your argument is illogical.
Powerdvd could easily just decode to analogue using a few standard atmos setups (like 7.1.4)
DTS X uses a fixed speaker layout and should also be much cheaper to license. Even tablets and phones have Dolby atmos in them but it's too risky for cyberlink to implement?
Have you seen the threads in people wanting Dolby atmos to analogue on the net?
Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

I give up, good luck in your quest

Thanks for the luck. I think I'm going to need it judging by the reactions in this thread.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'give up' as I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve in the first place.
Could someone from cyberlink clear this up and settle the matter, once and for all, so we can lay this to rest please?
Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.

Im not suprised that Cyberlink wont comment on future product features.

The core competitive advantage of PowerDVD 15 is bluray menu playback. While the free open source video softwares such as the combination of x64 LAV Filters and x64 MPC-HC and AnyDVD HD does things like try to choose the longest title in the bluray disc and play that, its really only PowerDVD that has proper bluray menu playback.

If it werent for that, lets face it, LAV filters decodes more file types including HEVC MAIN 10 which currently PowerDVD15 wont do, and generally the FFMPEG based splitters and decoders are more efficient, faster, and more robust than anything else.

This is why I feel that Cyberlink must support UHD Blurays in a new version. Or they retire the product. The Cyberlink free competitors wont have decoding of Atmos, wont have full menu playback of the UHD bluray menus etcetc

There is some secondary core reasons for using PowerDVD 15, such as 3D bluray playback. However for me at the moment this has been bugged for months and is a real pain.

Its my hope Cyberlink will get serious about being the premier media player, and get better at doing the beta test process, and get better at fixing bugs.

If PowerDVD goes down like TMT, theres feature holes left in competing products

EDIT: And what worries me about Cyberlinks choices, is the general trend to move away from disc playback to digital services. I have an extensive disc collection. I dont think of myself as a video phile, but I do consider it absurd that even so called 4K netflix is anywhere near the image quality of decent bluray disc titles. It seems people like me are becoming more fringe against the general sheeple wanting the convencience of instant viewing. If bluray menu playback is becoming fringe, and if the new generation of UHD Bluray format is "just another SACD format only for fringers" then I worry to think if this could be the effective end of PowerDVD development.

Have Cyberlink added decoding Atmos to analogue yet?
Haswell 4770k watercooled @4.6 ghz. 16GB RAM,
Nvidia 980TI GTX, Marantz AV7702mk2, Apogee Duet, 3x Adam A77X, 4x Mackie MR5's, 4X Mackie CR4
Panasonic PT-AT6000e projector, 120" fixed projector screen, Panasonic ST30 50" TV.