For people in "PAL" area - why insist in using 50fps?
Any modern HDTV can play 24, 50 and 60fps formats. PAL is dead, same with NTSC - those are purely analog "standard definition" formats, not in use anymore.
Only a TV broadcasting station might have interest in keeping the 50fps format, for their old tapes and probably because that's how broadcast licenses where granted.

OK, I have found the incompatibility issue on the CLPI/MPLS created using PD's BD 1080/50 or 60p profile. From what I understand (and as I don't have the standard I could be wrong!);

Blu-ray file headers are typically
- index.bdmv: INDX0200
- MovieObject.bdmv: MOBJ0200
- PLAYLIST *.mpls: MPLS0200
- CLIPINF *.clpi: HDMV0200

AVCHD file headers are typically
- index.bdmv: INDX0100
- MovieObject.bdmv: MOBJ0100
- PLAYLIST *.mpls: MPLS0100
- CLIPINF *.clpi: HDMV0100

When using the BD 1080/50 or 60p profile, PD is creating the file headers as follows
- index.bdmv: INDX0200
- MovieObject.bdmv: MOBJ0200
- PLAYLIST *.mpls: MPLS0240
- CLIPINF *.clpi: HDMV0240

I can find no reference to what the "0240" header value may be related to, it could be a simple error on CLink's part, or.... for all I know, CLink is aware of a new header value that has not hit the public domain yet..

Anyway, it is clear some disk readers are hitting this unknown header value and producing an error, yet others ignore it and push on.

If I edit these headers back to "0200" using a Hex Editor then all is good and the disks play as they should and the rest of the meta data is correct. This is the only change needed.

I've attached:
- BD50p.zip : BD 1080/50p as created by PD
- BD50p - Fixed.zip : BD 1080/50p as created by PD with the header values edited back to 0200

Hope this helps.
Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Here is an example of the 00000.mpls from the above original attachment

Offset(h) 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 00000000 4D 50 4C 53 30 32 34 30 00 00 00 3A 00 00 00 96 MPLS0240...:...– 00000010 00 00 00 AA 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ...ª............ 00000020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0E 00 01 00 00 ................ 00000030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 60 00 00 00 00 58 00 00 ........`....X.. 00000040 00 01 00 00 00 50 30 30 30 30 30 4D 32 54 53 00 .....P00000M2TS. 00000050 01 00 00 00 4E E4 00 03 BD CC 00 00 00 00 00 00 ....Nä..½Ì...... 00000060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2E 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000070 00 00 00 00 00 00 09 01 10 11 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000080 05 1B 66 00 00 00 09 01 11 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ..f............. 00000090 05 81 31 75 6E 64 00 00 00 10 00 01 00 01 00 00 ..1und.......... 000000A0 00 00 4E E4 FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ..Näÿÿ........

and for the 00000.clpi

Offset(h) 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 00000000 48 44 4D 56 30 32 34 30 00 00 00 DC 00 00 00 F6 HDMV0240...Ü...ö 00000010 00 00 01 34 00 00 01 94 00 00 01 98 00 00 00 00 ...4...”...˜.... 00000020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B0 00 00 01 0A ...........°.... 00000030 00 00 00 00 00 34 5E 71 00 00 63 00 00 00 00 00 .....4^q..c..... 00000040 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000050 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000080 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 000000A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 000000B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1E 80 48 ..............€H 000000C0 44 50 52 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 DPR............. 000000D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 16 ................ 000000E0 00 01 00 00 00 00 01 00 10 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 000000F0 4E E4 00 03 BD CC 00 00 00 3A 00 01 00 00 00 00 Nä..½Ì...:...... 00000100 01 00 02 00 10 11 15 1B 66 30 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........f0...... 00000110 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 11 00 15 81 ................ 00000120 31 75 6E 64 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1und............ 00000130 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 5C 00 01 00 01 10 11 00 04 .......\........ 00000140 00 04 00 10 00 00 00 0E 00 00 00 0C 00 00 00 00 ................ 00000150 00 00 00 04 10 9C 00 04 21 0E 06 5F 21 7E 0C B2 .....œ..!.._!~.² 00000160 21 EE 13 63 22 5E 19 81 22 D0 1F B3 23 40 26 07 !î.c"^.."Ð.³#@&. 00000170 23 B0 2C 1E 24 20 32 33 24 92 38 8D 25 02 3E A2 #°,.$ 23$’8.%.>¢ 00000180 25 72 44 A7 25 E2 4A E3 26 54 51 17 26 C4 57 39 %rD§%âJã&TQ.&ÄW9 00000190 27 34 5D 61 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 '4]a........
PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Here is a little "BD50_60p_fix" utility that will change the "0240" CLPI/MPLS headers to "0200" for you.

Instructions
- Download and Unzip to where you like
- Copy the "BDMV" and "Certificate" folders of your BD to be "fixed" directly under the the "BD_To_Fix" subfolder
- run "BD50_60p_fix.bat"

Notes: This is a XVI32 Hex Editor Script that simply does:
- ADR 6 (go to address 6)
- OVERWRITE 30 (changes the "4" to a "0")
- EXIT
for all files that match:
"....BD_To_Fix\BDMV\CLIPINF\*.clpi", and
"....BD_To_Fix\BDMV\PLAYLIST\*.mpls"

While this works for me, please ensure you test this first and that it works for you in your environment... this is At Your Own Risk in case it ruins you file, eats your dog etc etc.

Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Quote:
Not sure of the CL intent behind using different GOP structure between "Produce" and "Create Disc" for the same default profile.
Jeff

Jeff, I can confirm the following GOP structures used by PD (using CPU encoding):

IPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB : Create Disk @ 1080/50p (both BD and AVCHD)
IPBBPBBPBBPBB : Produce @ 1080/50p

Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Quote:

Quote:
Not sure of the CL intent behind using different GOP structure between "Produce" and "Create Disc" for the same default profile.
Jeff

Jeff, I can confirm the following GOP structures used by PD (using CPU encoding):

IPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB : Create Disk @ 1080/50p (both BD and AVCHD)
IPBBPBBPBBPBB : Produce @ 1080/50p

Thanks
Nathan

Hi Nathan,

This is brilliant work. How do you change the GOP profile for Create Disc to that of Produce?

PD could make these changes pretty painlessly I think for the next beta, seeing you have identified the problem for them!

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530

Quote: Here is a little "BD50_60p_fix" utility that will change the "0240" CLPI/MPLS headers to "0200" for you.

Thanks
Nathan

I hope CL will pay you for testing and debugging... That's surely just a typo in their code.

Quote:

Quote: Here is a little "BD50_60p_fix" utility that will change the "0240" CLPI/MPLS headers to "0200" for you.

Thanks
Nathan

I hope CL will pay you for testing and debugging... That's surely just a typo in their code.

I agree. While I accept that the introduction of the 50/60p profile is great, it's implementation has been a complete disaster. Three months after the introduction of PD13 we are STILL waiting for a fully functional build that delivers a trouble free 50/60p experience.

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530

Wow Nathan, tremendous. I have passed everything onto CyberLink for their "Monday morning experience" and I look forward to their reply (and making it known here).
Well done people.
Dafydd

No Probs! - If anyone has a chance to test that the fix works for them that would also be be good. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Quote: How do you change the GOP profile for Create Disc to that of Produce?

I have absolutely no idea! None of my tinkering to date seems to have changed GOP for Disk production ...but then again I have not been looking for it. It will certainly not be as easy to modify as with File production.

I also see the odd Audio track not being recognised by tsmuxer is back on the File production side but the file produced by the Disk profile is fine.

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Thanks anyway! You've isolated the bug, told them how to fix it, let's keep our fingers crossed!

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530

Thank you Nathan for looking into this.

For the time being I still use your FIXPD9, too chicken to go beyond that.
Eugene
73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A

So two different issues:
- BD 50/60p Header Compatibility (problem found and can be fixed per my posts above)
- GOP Structures: Here is some info taken from Elecard StreamEye (examines the actual streams not just headers like MediaInfo. Note: this is expensive pro sw but the "trial" version is free and will show you the stream)

Original Camcorder Footage GOP (24): IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB
PD File Production using SVRT (24): IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB
PD File Production using CPU & GPU GOP (13): IPBBPBBPBBPBB
PD Disk Production using CPU & GPU GOP (16): IPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB

Couple of notes:
- All the streams produced by SVRT crash StreamEye for me when it tries to analyse the stream (but shows the GOP first then crashes)
- For me SVRT is slower than CPU or GPU encoding (but uses less CPU)
- All the streams produced by File Production will not load the audio track in tsmuxer (but the Disk Production is fine). This was fixed at one point but seems to be broken again (I don't know when).
- I tried a custom File Production profile based on IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB but the file produced was IPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBP so it was a shorter GOP and had an extra P frame at the begining.

This is really just for information, and I'd conclude:
- I still don't like SVRT. It makes great sense in "theory" not to re-encode where you don't have to but it is slower and to my eyes I don't see any generational loss when compared to CPU encoding
- I also don't like GPU encoding as you are are the mercy of not only PD but also the GPU mft and driver levels so it tends to be inconsistent over the years to what you get.
- I still like CPU encoding with PD's standard profile. Quality looks good to me and it is quick, though I'm now irritated that the audio track compatibility issue is back (though it will not impact most users).

Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

I have authored a test Blu-ray disc with 1920 x 1080P input to test THE NEW PD13_BDFIX.
Now the BD can be played on a PS3(before the fix only Audio & no Video).
Can also be played on the PC with PowerDVD and Samsung BD-C6900.
I have noticed a slight pause during playback.
The Authoring time for PDIR 13 Creat Disc took 26 minutes and 27 seconds.
There were many Rendering pop-up windows during the Create Disc.
As a comparison my primary authoring tool just took 1 minute and 44 seconds,
and plays on any device I have so far tried to play on (PS3, Sony BD, LG BD and Samsung BD).

Thanks for the confirmation. Lets see what CL come back with!
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Hi,
I have no official comment, I did have a reply that made an observation which I will share.

We followed the latest BD spec we got to make the profile. As explained previously (see previous post), current BD player or tools may just follow current "official" spec to verify the disc, it is expected that errors happen.

We don't know what will be the effects if using tools to modify the header. It might make the disc can not be played back in the BD player, which support 50P/60P BD disc, in the future.

That's all I have.
Dafydd

I was wondering if the "240" header would reference some yet to be released spec for 1080@50/60p but I'd say even if that was the case then the headers on the index and MoviObject are wrong as they are "200" as per the current BD spec.

- index.bdmv: INDX0200
- MovieObject.bdmv: MOBJ0200
- PLAYLIST *.mpls: MPLS0240
- CLIPINF *.clpi: HDMV0240

I'd expect them to all be consistent as either "200" or "240" but.... I'm sure they know!

If "240" does become a "thing" then I'm sure it will be incorporated into new devices but for now the little tool I made may be the best option for broad compatibility.

Thanks
Nathan PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Quote: I was wondering if the "240" header would reference some yet to be released spec for 1080@50/60p but I'd say even if that was the case then the headers on the index and MoviObject are wrong as they are "200" as per the current BD spec.

- index.bdmv: INDX0200
- MovieObject.bdmv: MOBJ0200
- PLAYLIST *.mpls: MPLS0240
- CLIPINF *.clpi: HDMV0240

I'd expect them to all be consistent as either "200" or "240" but.... I'm sure they know!

If "240" does become a "thing" then I'm sure it will be incorporated into new devices but for now the little tool I made may be the best option for broad compatibility.

Thanks
Nathan

Strange indeed, I thought 0100 was for AVCHD, (which PD does match for both 60p and 60i folder structures) and 0200 was for BD (which PD does match for 60i folder structure). Not sure why a mix for BD and 60p settings, a mix of headers 0200 and 0240 as you pointed out. It's even a little stranger than that for me. For 60p CLIPINF headers are:
00000.clpi: HDMV0240
00001.clpi: HDMV0240
00002.clpi: HDMV0200 (why this if 0240 is proper???)

Again, maybe header 0240 is something new, I really doubt the mixed bag offering of headers presented by PD13 though!

Jeff

Hi Jeff, in your 00002.clpi example is there a corresponding 00002.m2ts with 50/60p content?

Although not knowing the specs and what is comming out, I too find it strange that the headers would be anything other than 0200 for a BD as the CLPI (and MPLS) just hold the meta data on what the stream is etc, one of which is already a 1080/50 or 60p value.

Thanks
Nathan

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Hi everyone,

Build 2403, the latest beta, has fixed the SVRT issue in 'Create Disc'. Projects fly through now just as they should.

Cheers,

Andrew Alienware Aurora ALX R4 - Intel i7-4820 4.2 GHz - 32GB DDR3 RAM - Crucial 512GB SSD - 1TB Seagate HDD - 3TB WD Green HDD - 4TB WD Green HDD - MSI NVIDIA GTX 1070 8GB

Sony HDR-PJ810 and HDR-PJ530