No amount of hardware change will get you realtime playback of sped up AVC/HEVC 4K clips. Because the clips are encoded to reduce file size, it simply takes too much time to decode each frame in order and then pick out the next frame you want to display to do that while keeping up with the audio.

For those kinds of edits, you basically have three choices:

1. Use shadow files at the lowest resolution you can use to do your other editing. Lower resolution shadow files are easier for your CPU to process and will give you at least some ability to preview sped up clips in realtime, but there will always be a point when the CPU can't keep up if the accelerated section is long enough


2. Use the Range Selection tools and then Produce Range to produce the sped up section and then replace the sped-up section on the timeline with the newly produced clip. This will relieve your CPU of all the heavy lifting during timeline preview


3. Use an intermediate codec for your source clips so the CPU never has to decode any frame and it can easily pick whichever frame is needed from each clip while previewing and never fall behind. The only downside is that the clips have to be converted upfront and will grow to be 10-15x their original file size. SSDs are a must but you're covered there. MagicYUV is my codec of choice, and you can find more info starting in the 3rd paragraph here.

Here's an example of the difference using an intermediate codec makes on timeline preview fluidity with otherwise performance-crippling edits:

Hey there.

So here's the rub. I have a MacBook pro (2019 i9, 32gb ram, vega gpu) and it can do this without any issues. If a PC can't do it, then I may need to just go back to Mac and deal with the inherent challenges that go along with that.

I decided to try PC because of the lack of ability to deal with hardware problems on a mac when they go wrong. I almost lost an entire series due to a strange power / charge glitch. At least I can pull the drive from my PC and get the data off in a pinch. Good luck with that on a mac.

Anyway, I'll try some of the things you are suggesting, i.e. lower rez shadow files, rendering playback, etc., but I'm kind of blown away that a PC with this much power can't do what a 2-year-old mac can do. Granted, the mac cost almost 3 times what the PC cost.

I really don't want to have to learn adobe.

Thanks again.

Rick

Quote No amount of hardware change will get you realtime playback of sped up AVC/HEVC 4K clips. Because the clips are encoded to reduce file size, it simply takes too much time to decode each frame in order and then pick out the next frame you want to display to do that while keeping up with the audio.

For those kinds of edits, you basically have three choices:

1. Use shadow files at the lowest resolution you can use to do your other editing. Lower resolution shadow files are easier for your CPU to process and will give you at least some ability to preview sped up clips in realtime, but there will always be a point when the CPU can't keep up if the accelerated section is long enough


2. Use the Range Selection tools and then Produce Range to produce the sped up section and then replace the sped-up section on the timeline with the newly produced clip. This will relieve your CPU of all the heavy lifting during timeline preview


3. Use an intermediate codec for your source clips so the CPU never has to decode any frame and it can easily pick whichever frame is needed from each clip while previewing and never fall behind. The only downside is that the clips have to be converted upfront and will grow to be 10-15x their original file size. SSDs are a must but you're covered there. MagicYUV is my codec of choice, and you can find more info starting in the 3rd paragraph here.

Here's an example of the difference using an intermediate codec makes on timeline preview fluidity with otherwise performance-crippling edits:

There's no magic here. Don't you have to "import" or "ingest" clips in whatever mac program you were using? During that process it's making proxy/shadow files then using those to improve editing fluidity. If you have PD set to automatically create shadow files, then you'll be on the same page.

You import on the MAC (final cut) but I don't use proxy files.. I can just run native without having to ingest and create proxy files.

I'm not sure how they do it, but it's just 10 times smoother and far more liquid to edit on the MAC and final cut. I'm not giving up on the PC and the shadow files may be good enough to do what I need to do.. or I may do some of my targets and table cams as 1080 vs 4k which may also do the trick..

It's been a long time since I tried to edit on a PC, about 12 years. It's certainly better than it was way back then, but it still hasn't caught up to MAC.

I'm going to build an 12th gen system here shortly and try and land a 3080. Have you had any experience with AMD GPUs vs nVidia? Does PowerDirector have a preference between the two? Just curious.

Thanks

Rick

Quote There's no magic here. Don't you have to "import" or "ingest" clips in whatever mac program you were using? During that process it's making proxy/shadow files then using those to improve editing fluidity. If you have PD set to automatically create shadow files, then you'll be on the same page.

Quote
I was editing a recent video that had 3 4K videos overlaid with text, effects, and crop/zoom edits. When I added time acceleration on two for the overlaid clips, the system just hung up. The audio kept going, but the edit line and preview froze.

What encoding format were those files?
Windows/PD can work hardware accelerated with mpeg-4, h264, H265, HEVC encoders.
If you come from Apple, you will find out that files native for that (MOV containers, Pro Video Formats) will be very slow in Windows. That's because those formats are proprietary and Apple didn't care to provide a performant codec for Windows.
That's part of Apple marketing scheme.

Also make sure you have those checked:



PS: You won't see any differences between the 3070 and 3080Ti. Their NVDEC/NVENC are identical.
Also, you can use for storage any decent HDD, don't need an NVME, the bottleneck is not on the storage system.
Memory latecy is a thing, hopefully Windows will deal with that better.

PPS: Thinkgs might change with DirectStore (Windows 11 and somewhat in Windows 10). However the apps need to be re-written to get access to that new technology.

Thanks for the useful info.

I'm running MP4 files from my cameras. I use a SONY FDR-AX100 for my static shots (targets) and a Panasonic FZ-2500 on me. I have them set to give me 4k 30fps mp4 files. I just copy the files to my PC and go to work. I was using 1080p shadow files.. I may drop down to 720p going forward. Maybe that will do the trick?

Here's the video that I was editing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yXTB0Uc41w
(just noticed an audio glitch.. grrr.. need to sort that out before my next video)

That's good news on the video card.. no need to drop the unnecessary cash on a 3080. I'm seriously looking to build an alder lake system even though I just finished this build only a month or so ago. This is for my work and anything I can do to create more efficiency just pays off very quickly so I'm looking at the i9 12900k. It will take a little time to get the rest of the parts together, but I'm leaning this way. It would be interesting to see how the two platforms perform compared with each other.

Everyone focuses on numbers (youtube reviewers) that are just not apples to apples for my workflow so this interaction is very helpful. Maybe a youtube channel "for the rest of us" might be useful.

Thanks again.

Rick

Quote

What encoding format were those files?
Windows can nativelly deal harware accelerated with mpeg-4, h264, H265, HEVC encoders.
If you come from Apple, you will find out that files native for that (MOV containers, Pro Video Formats) will be very slow in Windows. That's because that is proprietary and Apple didn't care to provide a performant codec for Windows.
That's part of Apple marketing scheme.

PS: You won't see any differences between the 3070 and 3080Ti. Their NVDEC/NVENC are identical.
Also, you can use for storage any decent HDD, don't need an NVME, the bottleneck is not on the storage system.
Memory latecy is a thing, hopefully Windows will deal with that better.

PPS: Thinkgs might change with DirectStore (Windows 11 and somewhat in Windows 10). However the apps need to be re-written to get access to that new technology.

Nice video.
Small obs: A bit too much glare in the glasses lens. Maybe change the light source direction next time?

PS: PowerDirector is not meant for commericla use, per their TOS. Basically they didn't pay commerical licensing fees for the mp4, h264, h265 formats. Those are free to use only for non-commercial users.
I am not sure if monetizing a channel in YT fits that definition, I would say it does.

Thanks for watching.. Light source was "the sun" so I'm not sure how to address that lol..

As for commercial/non-commercial use. I'll have to look that up with PowerDirector. Seems that there are a lot of folks on youtube using this software "commercially" and it's certainly not clearly stated, that I've ever seen, that you're not supposed to use it to make money. That would render it useless.

But certainly something that's worth an email to their support / licensing department.

Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and just learn premiere anyway or give up on PC and just go back to apple.

Thanks again for all the insight.

Cheers

Rick

Quote Nice video.
Small obs: A bit too much glare in the glasses lens. Maybe change the light source direction next time?

PS: PowerDirector is not meant for commericla use, per their TOS. Basically they didn't pay commerical licensing fees for the mp4, h264, h265 formats. Those are free to use only for non-commercial users.
I am not sure if monetizing a channel in YT fits that definition, I would say it does.

Quote Seems that there are a lot of folks on youtube using this software "commercially" and it's certainly not clearly stated, that I've ever seen, that you're not supposed to use it to make money. That would render it useless.

It depends how "visible" you are. You won't get sued if there are no money to make from you.
A lot of other NLE software that are more expensive are granted to be used for commerical use, because they included those licensing fees in their cost.
Read this and make your own decision:
https://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=24103

CyberLink does not license the above items for commercial use and you are advised to approach the relevant licensing agents at the above addresses for more information.
*MPEG DISTRIBUTION
ANY USE OF THIS PRODUCT IN ANY MANNER OTHER THAN PERSONAL USE THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG-2 STANDARD FOR ENCODING VIDEO INFORMATION FOR PACKAGED MEDIA IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED WITHOUT A LICENSE UNDER APPLICABLE PATENTS IN THE MPEG-2 PATENT PORTFOLIO, WHICH LICENSE IS AVAILABLE FROM MPEG-LA,LLC AT THE ADDRESS ABOVE.
THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED UNDER THE AVC PATENT PORTFOLIO LICENSE FOR THE PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE OF A CONSUMER TO (i) ENCODE VIDEO IN COMLIANCE WITH THE AVC STANDARD (“AVC VIDEO” AND/OR (ii) DECODE AVC VIDEO THAT WAS ENCODED BY A CONSUMER ENGAGED IN A PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY AND/OR WAS OBTAINED FROM A VIDEO PROVIDER LICENSED TO PROVIDE AVC VIDEO. NO LICENSE IS GRANTED OR SHALL BE IMPLIED FOR ANY OTHER USE. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION MAY BE OBTAINED FROM MPEG-LA.
You also acknowledge that no rights are granted or may be extended to you to use the MOBILE APP with MPEG-4 Video Content unless such MPEG-4 Content is sold or delivered to you by a content outlet licensed under the MPEG-4 Essential Claims to make such sale or delivery.
*Notices from HEVC Advance
Covered by one or more claims of the patents listed at https://www.hevcadvance.com/licensors/#patent-list.
THIS PRODUCT IS SOLD WITH A LIMITED LICENSE AND IS AUTHORIZED TO BE USED ONLY IN CONNECTION WITH HEVC CONTENT THAT MEETS EACH OF THE THREE FOLLOWING QUALIFICATIONS: (1) HEVC CONTENT ONLY FOR PERSONAL USE; (2) HEVC CONTENT THAT IS NOT OFFERED FOR SALE; AND (3) HEVC CONTENT THAT IS CREATED BY THE OWNER OF THE PRODUCT. THIS PRODUCT MAY NOT BE USED IN CONNECTION WITH HEVC ENCODED CONTENT CREATED BY A THIRD PARTY, WHICH THE USER HAS ORDERED OR PURCHASED FROM A THIRD PARTY, UNLESS THE USER IS SEPARATELY GRANTED RIGHTS TO USE THE PRODUCT WITH SUCH CONTENT BY A LICENSED SELLER OF THE CONTENT. YOUR USE OF THIS PRODUCT IN CONNECTION WITH HEVC ENCODED CONTENT IS DEEMED ACCEPTANCE OF THE LIMITED AUTHORITY TO USE AS NOTED ABOVE.

Even the FinalCut ProX EULA says that's not for commercial use:
https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/FinalCutProX.pdf

B. MPEG-2 Notice. To the extent that the Apple Software contains MPEG-2 functionality, the following
provision applies: ANY USE OF THIS PRODUCT OTHER THAN CONSUMER PERSONAL USE IN ANY
MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG-2 STANDARD FOR ENCODING VIDEO INFORMATION
FOR PACKAGED MEDIA IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED WITHOUT A LICENSE UNDER APPLICABLE
PATENTS IN THE MPEG-2 PATENT PORTFOLIO, WHICH LICENSE IS AVAILABLE FROM MPEG LA,
L.L.C., 250 STEELE STREET, SUITE 300, DENVER, COLORADO 80206.
C. Use of MPEG-4. This product is licensed under the MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio License for
encoding in compliance with the MPEG-4 Systems Standard, except that an additional license and
payment of royalties are necessary for encoding in connection with (i) data stored or replicated in
physical media which is paid for on a title by title basis and/or (ii) data which is paid for on a title by title
basis and is transmitted to an end user for permanent storage and/or use. Such additional license may
be obtained from MPEG LA, LLC. See https://www.mpegla.com for additional details.
This product is licensed under the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio License for the personal and noncommercial use of a consumer for (i) encoding video in compliance with the MPEG-4 Visual Standard
(“MPEG-4 Video&rdquo and/or (ii) decoding MPEG-4 video that was encoded by a consumer engaged in a
personal and non-commercial activity and/or was obtained from a video provider licensed by MPEG LA
to provide MPEG-4 video. No license is granted or shall be implied for any other use. Additional
information including that relating to promotional, internal and commercial uses and licensing may be
obtained from MPEG LA, LLC. See https://www.mpegla.com.
D. H.264/AVC Notice. To the extent that the Apple Software contains AVC encoding and/or decoding
functionality, commercial use of H.264/AVC requires additional licensing and the following provision
applies: THE AVC FUNCTIONALITY IN THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED HEREIN ONLY FOR THE
PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE OF A CONSUMER TO (i) ENCODE VIDEO IN COMPLIANCE
WITH THE AVC STANDARD (“AVC VIDEO&rdquo AND/OR (ii) DECODE AVC VIDEO THAT WAS ENCODED BY
A CONSUMER ENGAGED IN A PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY AND/OR AVC VIDEO
THAT WAS OBTAINED FROM A VIDEO PROVIDER LICENSED TO PROVIDE AVC VIDEO. INFORMATION
REGARDING OTHER USES AND LICENSES MAY BE OBTAINED FROM MPEG LA L.L.C. SEE HTTPS://
WWW.MPEGLA.COM.
E. AMR Notice. The Adaptive Multi-Rate (“AMR&rdquo encoding and decoding functionality in this product is
not licensed to perform cellular voice calls, or for use in any telephony products built on the QuickTime
architecture for the Windows platform. The AMR encoding and decoding functionality in this product is
also not licensed for use in a cellular communications infrastructure including: base stations, base
station controllers/radio network controllers, switching centers, and gateways to and from the public
switched network.
F. HEVC (H.265). To the extent that the Apple Software contains HEVC functionality, the following
provision applies: THIS PRODUCT INCLUDES TECHNOLOGY COMPLIANT WITH THE HEVC/H.265
STANDARD AND THUS MAY BE SUBJECT TO THIRD PARTY PATENT LICENSING OBLIGATIONS
FROM VARIOUS PATENT POOLS HOLDING PATENT RIGHTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE HEVC/H.265
STANDARD. CUSTOMER SHOULD CONSULT INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL WHEN DETERMINING
WHETHER A LICENSE IS REQUIRED

It's certainly very interesting for sure.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Rick

Quote Even the FinalCut ProX EULA says that's not for commercial use:
https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/FinalCutProX.pdf

B. MPEG-2 Notice. To the extent that the Apple Software contains MPEG-2 functionality, the following
provision applies: ANY USE OF THIS PRODUCT OTHER THAN CONSUMER PERSONAL USE IN ANY
MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG-2 STANDARD FOR ENCODING VIDEO INFORMATION
FOR PACKAGED MEDIA IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED WITHOUT A LICENSE UNDER APPLICABLE
PATENTS IN THE MPEG-2 PATENT PORTFOLIO, WHICH LICENSE IS AVAILABLE FROM MPEG LA,
L.L.C., 250 STEELE STREET, SUITE 300, DENVER, COLORADO 80206.
C. Use of MPEG-4. This product is licensed under the MPEG-4 Systems Patent Portfolio License for
encoding in compliance with the MPEG-4 Systems Standard, except that an additional license and
payment of royalties are necessary for encoding in connection with (i) data stored or replicated in
physical media which is paid for on a title by title basis and/or (ii) data which is paid for on a title by title
basis and is transmitted to an end user for permanent storage and/or use. Such additional license may
be obtained from MPEG LA, LLC. See https://www.mpegla.com for additional details.
This product is licensed under the MPEG-4 Visual Patent Portfolio License for the personal and noncommercial use of a consumer for (i) encoding video in compliance with the MPEG-4 Visual Standard
(“MPEG-4 Video&rdquo and/or (ii) decoding MPEG-4 video that was encoded by a consumer engaged in a
personal and non-commercial activity and/or was obtained from a video provider licensed by MPEG LA
to provide MPEG-4 video. No license is granted or shall be implied for any other use. Additional
information including that relating to promotional, internal and commercial uses and licensing may be
obtained from MPEG LA, LLC. See https://www.mpegla.com.
D. H.264/AVC Notice. To the extent that the Apple Software contains AVC encoding and/or decoding
functionality, commercial use of H.264/AVC requires additional licensing and the following provision
applies: THE AVC FUNCTIONALITY IN THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED HEREIN ONLY FOR THE
PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE OF A CONSUMER TO (i) ENCODE VIDEO IN COMPLIANCE
WITH THE AVC STANDARD (“AVC VIDEO&rdquo AND/OR (ii) DECODE AVC VIDEO THAT WAS ENCODED BY
A CONSUMER ENGAGED IN A PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY AND/OR AVC VIDEO
THAT WAS OBTAINED FROM A VIDEO PROVIDER LICENSED TO PROVIDE AVC VIDEO. INFORMATION
REGARDING OTHER USES AND LICENSES MAY BE OBTAINED FROM MPEG LA L.L.C. SEE HTTPS://
WWW.MPEGLA.COM.
E. AMR Notice. The Adaptive Multi-Rate (“AMR&rdquo encoding and decoding functionality in this product is
not licensed to perform cellular voice calls, or for use in any telephony products built on the QuickTime
architecture for the Windows platform. The AMR encoding and decoding functionality in this product is
also not licensed for use in a cellular communications infrastructure including: base stations, base
station controllers/radio network controllers, switching centers, and gateways to and from the public
switched network.
F. HEVC (H.265). To the extent that the Apple Software contains HEVC functionality, the following
provision applies: THIS PRODUCT INCLUDES TECHNOLOGY COMPLIANT WITH THE HEVC/H.265
STANDARD AND THUS MAY BE SUBJECT TO THIRD PARTY PATENT LICENSING OBLIGATIONS
FROM VARIOUS PATENT POOLS HOLDING PATENT RIGHTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE HEVC/H.265
STANDARD. CUSTOMER SHOULD CONSULT INDEPENDENT LEGAL COUNSEL WHEN DETERMINING
WHETHER A LICENSE IS REQUIRED