Help with Audio drift

petermoon1969

Newbie Joined: May 08, 2015 10:22 Messages: 6 Offline

Solved by

Feb 14, 2021 11:24

HI Everybody! I am having an unusual issue and I'm hoping some of the expert users here may have a solution.

I'm a performing singer songwriter. Since there have been fewer opportunities to perform live for audiences during the whole Covid thing, I outfitted my studio with a GoPro so that I could regularly create and post live performance clips from inside my control room. At first I just used the camera audio and rendered the clip in PowerDirector . As I experimented more, I learned how to capture the video into OBS and set it so that OBS would accept the audio input through my Cubase DAW. That resulted in much better sound. I could take the file, trim it up a bit and adjust the lighting and color inside Powerdirector, and post it online looking and sounding good. Then I thought I would get even more ambitious with the sound by recording the audio independently into cubase so that I could mix it down afterward using effects like compression, reverb, volume automation etc, and then sync that audio up after the fact. Here's where the problems start. I do a slate of 6 handclaps before I start the performance so that I can line up the mixed audio with the unmixed audio. I also do a slate of 6 handclaps at the end of the performance so I can see if things stayed in sync as the performance continued. I can line stuff up perfectly at the start, but by the end of a performance , things have drifted enough that it's not really usable . I've been using Powerdirector for a few years and I have always found it to be pretty easy and useful. But I'm struggling with this issue. I have a copy of Movavi Video Editor as well, which I typically use just as a tool for converting audio and video file formats. I decided I would try to sync up my audio in Movavi just to see if it would drift similarly in that program. It lined up perfectly and there was no drift. I downloaded a free trial of another video app and tried to sync with that one as well - also lined up with no issues. I also contacted Maliek Whitaker who runs the Powerdirector University youtube channel. He suggested that perhaps the audio had a variable frame rate and I should use Handbrake to convert it to a constant frame rate and then try again. I did that, still no success.

I am much more familiar with Powerdirector than with other available editors. I want to keep working with it since it's what I'm most comfortable with. I just need to fix this particular glitch with the audio drift.

I hope I explained the issue clearly - I'd be very grateful if any of the experts here can help me to solve it.
Thanks in advance!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14. 2021 11:30

PowerDirector Moderator

Senior Contributor Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 2104 Offline

Feb 14, 2021 13:40

Hi,

So, as I understand it, you record video and audio into OBS using the gopro as a source, a "master" audio through cubase (source?), and a set of opening and closing cues for synching.
The master audio and the OBS audio/video are imported into the timeline and are in synch at T0 but then, on the timeline, become progressively out of synch as the recordings progress.
You haven't mentioned whether this lagging is carried over into a final production, but I assume that is the case?? If the final production is fully synched, then are we are looking at a timeline view issue that makes editing difficult??

As you have already tested in other environments, and found no issues, then the problem would seem to be either the way PDR is configured, or the way PDR handles and processes the respective files.

I think it would be useful to confirm if the problem carries over to production and also post up the OBS and cubase file data, using something like Mediainfo, as attachments, to enable members to better able to help out.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14. 2021 13:42

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petermoon1969

Newbie Joined: May 08, 2015 10:22 Messages: 6 Offline

Feb 14, 2021 15:52

Hi thanks so much for the response! Yes, the issue is present both in the timeline and it carries over into production.

Actually, the video is captured into OBS from the GoPro. Concurrent with that, I perform the song live and OBS is set to capture the live audio feed coming through Cubase. That way OBS is getting signal from my Condenser mic and my keyboard instead of getting audio from the gopro.

So the main file from OBS consists of GoPro video and audio captured thru cubase.
This file is perfectly synched to itself, even though the audio comes in thru Cubase and the video from the GoPro.

The other audio file, which I want to replace it with, is being recorded simultaneously into Cubase. After it is recorded, I can perfect the mix, like if I want to gain ride the volume of the vocal in certain spots to make it blend better, or adjust equalization - you know, basic audio editing.

After I have mixed down the Cubase audio,
I import it and the OBS files into PD. I use the opening cues to line them up. I can listen to both the audio that's in the OBS track and the audio from Cubase and hear that they are just about perfectly lined up.

By the time the end of 3 or 4 minutes has gone by (the average length of a song), they are no longer in sync.

I just downloaded "media info" - i've never used it before. But after running the audio and the video thru it I think maybe I see the issue. It looks like the mixed audio coming out of Cubase is listed at a 38.281 FPS

And the Audio coming out of the OBS file is listed at 43.066 FPS These are the files before I used "Handbrake" on them. But handbrake didn't fix the problem anyway. I'll attach the entire Media Info file below. Admittedly I'm not very familiar with things like Frame Rate, so I really appreciate the help and guidance you guys can offer me. I'll try to learn from you all.

The spec for the OBS file is attached named "AnB OBS test"
The spec for the audio file is attacjed as " mediainfo audio test"

as a side note, I tested some other files with media info just to practice reading them and to try to understand the info . I noticed that when analyzing an mp3 audio file, Media Info gives you a frame rate specification. But when analyzing a wav file, it does not provide a frame rate. Could someone explain to me why that would be the case?

Thanks again!

Quote Hi,

So, as I understand it, you record video and audio into OBS using the gopro as a source, a "master" audio through cubase (source?), and a set of opening and closing cues for synching.
The master audio and the OBS audio/video are imported into the timeline and are in synch at T0 but then, on the timeline, become progressively out of synch as the recordings progress.
You haven't mentioned whether this lagging is carried over into a final production, but I assume that is the case?? If the final production is fully synched, then are we are looking at a timeline view issue that makes editing difficult??

As you have already tested in other environments, and found no issues, then the problem would seem to be either the way PDR is configured, or the way PDR handles and processes the respective files.

I think it would be useful to confirm if the problem carries over to production and also post up the OBS and cubase file data, using something like Mediainfo, as attachments, to enable members to better able to help out.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

Filename	media info anB audio test.txt	Download
Description
Filesize	1 Kbytes
Downloaded:	181 time(s)

Filename	AnB test OBS file.txt	Download
Description
Filesize	5 Kbytes
Downloaded:	185 time(s)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 14. 2021 16:28

PowerDirector Moderator

Senior Contributor Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 2104 Offline

Feb 15, 2021 13:57

Ok Thanks for that.

Looks like you have 1 video input (gopro), a master audio (cubase), 1 audio (gopro) and 1 audio (cubase).

Your OBS file has the .mp4 container with one video stream but 2 two channel audio streams. The master audio is .mp3 and stereo.

Firstly, PDR is known to have problems with multiple audio containers other than .mkv. This is from PDR18, but I'm not certain if PDR 19 has changed anything.
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/81182.page#333928

As I understand it, you only actually need the video only from the gopro, your condenser mic and keyboard into cubase and your master audio?

My version of OBS 25.0.8, under advanced audio settings, I think you can select the audio sources avaiable and also select the tracks to record each source to. Perhaps, as a test, you can "disable" your gopro audio source by unticking all tracks, leaving just your mic/keyboard source in your OBS output file?

Alternatively, the Audio Devices in Settings can enable/disable devices one at a time.
That leaves you with only the 2 audio sources you really want, one in the OBS file (with the video) and the other in the master recording.?

Or, as a quick trial solution,
under Output>Recording>Recording Format change the recording format to .mkv and see if PDR can handle your existing setup better?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 15. 2021 13:59

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petermoon1969

Newbie Joined: May 08, 2015 10:22 Messages: 6 Offline

Feb 15, 2021 14:27

Thanks - I will give that a try and report back!!!!

Quote Ok Thanks for that.

Looks like you have 1 video input (gopro), a master audio (cubase), 1 audio (gopro) and 1 audio (cubase).

Your OBS file has the .mp4 container with one video stream but 2 two channel audio streams. The master audio is .mp3 and stereo.

Firstly, PDR is known to have problems with multiple audio containers other than .mkv. This is from PDR18, but I'm not certain if PDR 19 has changed anything.
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/81182.page#333928

As I understand it, you only actually need the video only from the gopro, your condenser mic and keyboard into cubase and your master audio?

My version of OBS 25.0.8, under advanced audio settings, I think you can select the audio sources avaiable and also select the tracks to record each source to. Perhaps, as a test, you can "disable" your gopro audio source by unticking all tracks, leaving just your mic/keyboard source in your OBS output file?

Alternatively, the Audio Devices in Settings can enable/disable devices one at a time.
That leaves you with only the 2 audio sources you really want, one in the OBS file (with the video) and the other in the master recording.?

Or, as a quick trial solution,
under Output>Recording>Recording Format change the recording format to .mkv and see if PDR can handle your existing setup better?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

petermoon1969

Newbie Joined: May 08, 2015 10:22 Messages: 6 Offline

Feb 16, 2021 20:40

Okay so it did not really work - but I think I came up with a reasonably decent workaround. I did as you suggested and set OBS output to an MKV format. I disabled all the audio sources except for cubase. I noticed the same issue when I imported my file from OBS and my file from cubase in that if I lined up the beginning handclaps perfectly, the handclaps at the end would be out of sync. The actual speed of the OBS seemed to be a tiny bit slower than the speed of the cubase audio file. So I used the "power tools" area to adjust the length of the OBS file by very small increments until it lineup up a bit more closely. It's not entirely perfect but it's a bit closer and I think probably close enuff. For now it will probably suffice.

Quote Thanks - I will give that a try and report back!!!!

PowerDirector Moderator

Senior Contributor Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 2104 Offline

Feb 17, 2021 05:11

Quote Okay so it did not really work - but I think I came up with a reasonably decent workaround. I did as you suggested and set OBS output to an MKV format. I disabled all the audio sources except for cubase. I noticed the same issue when I imported my file from OBS and my file from cubase in that if I lined up the beginning handclaps perfectly, the handclaps at the end would be out of sync. The actual speed of the OBS seemed to be a tiny bit slower than the speed of the cubase audio file. So I used the "power tools" area to adjust the length of the OBS file by very small increments until it lineup up a bit more closely. It's not entirely perfect but it's a bit closer and I think probably close enuff. For now it will probably suffice.

Good you got a workaround. The OBS forum has loads of info on the finer points of synchronisation of differing audio/video streams, for example:
https://obsproject.com/forum/tags/video-delay/
https://obsproject.com/forum/tags/audio-delay/

If you are prepared to experiment and fine tune your OBS/cubase setup, perhaps you might get a more permanent solution?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

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Janet Nelson

Newbie Joined: Feb 18, 2021 12:18 Messages: 2 Offline

Feb 19, 2021 09:32

I was having the same issue. I record into Cakewalk but capture video with a different device. This tutorial nicely explains audio drift and solved all my out of sync issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpaPu7RcW2c

A free piece of software called "Handbreak" can be used to quickly correct the issues. You then just attached the new track to your video.

Hope this helps.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 19. 2021 12:32

tomasc

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline

Feb 19, 2021 12:55

Thank you Janet Nelson for posting the solution you found. I am sure it will help others who may experience this issue.