I have not seen that behavior, to me it sounds like you have a 1 frame gap between clips. I say that because of this statement:

"If a clip starts at say 3.10.05 on the timeline, the previous clip ended at 3.10.04."

If one splits or butts two clips, the end frame of one is at 3:10:05 the beginning frame of the next clip is also at 3:10:05 timecode, anything else leaves a gap. If looking at preview in clip mode, at this 3:10:05 one gets the pic associated with that particular clip. If viewing in movie mode, you usually get the pic of the second clip in the butt at this 3:10:05 timecode unless one simply toggles clip and movie mode.

You didn't capture the timeline marker to aid, but it appears you have a 1 frame gap between the two FX which would be inline with the statement that one clip ends at 3:10:04 and the next starts at 3:10:05 which for continuous clips is not true. That scenario has a 1 frame gap.

Jeff

Quote I have not seen that behavior, to me it sounds like you have a 1 frame gap between clips. I say that because of this statement:

"If a clip starts at say 3.10.05 on the timeline, the previous clip ended at 3.10.04."

If one splits or butts two clips, the end frame of one is at 3:10:05 the beginning frame of the next clip is also at 3:10:05 timecode, anything else leaves a gap. If looking at preview in clip mode, at this 3:10:05 one gets the pic associated with that particular clip. If viewing in movie mode, you usually get the pic of the second clip in the butt at this 3:10:05 timecode unless one simply toggles clip and movie mode.

You didn't capture the timeline marker to aid, but it appears you have a 1 frame gap between the two FX which would be inline with the statement that one clip ends at 3:10:04 and the next starts at 3:10:05 which for continuous clips is not true. That scenario has a 1 frame gap.

Jeff

Hi the top effect aligns with the video clip when played back - so does the bottom one now when played back but not visually on the timeline though.

To check the effects position, I recombined the video clips and literally progress through one frame at a time, consequence of which was I eventually got the first effect totally aligned up as can be seen the image I screen grabbed,

But when I aligned the second effect with the first one, then did the frame by frame progress again as before, it showed up in the previous clip, hence having to gradually move it to the right where it ended up not aligned with the edge of the video clip which I split again or with the other effect

regards

ps. why I dont believe there is a gap between the videos is each individual video was synched with a master audio track

Incidentally the beating effect was only put in after the problem surfaced. It was another visual effect which was apparent on the playback, whereas obviously beating would not stand out frame by frame. I put that in because I couldnt put the visual effect in

Quote Hi the top effect aligns with the video clip when played back - so does the bottom one now when played back but not visually on the timeline though.

To check the effects position, I recombined the video clips and literally progress through one frame at a time, consequence of which was I eventually got the first effect totally aligned up as can be seen the image I screen grabbed,

But when I aligned the second effect with the first one, then did the frame by frame progress again as before, it showed up in the previous clip, hence having to gradually move it to the right where it ended up not aligned with the edge of the video clip which I split again or with the other effect

regards

ps. why I dont believe there is a gap between the videos is each individual video was synched with a master audio track

Incidentally the beating effect was only put in after the problem surfaced. It was another visual effect which was apparent on the playback, whereas obviously beating would not stand out frame by frame. I put that in because I couldnt put the visual effect in

Hard to say without a look at exactly what FX you are using, PD know to do strange things with transitions and effects.

But, as far as beating would not stand out frame by frame, yes it certainly will. One can easily see if you overlap same footage with transparency, so at time 0:00:00, start of clip and start of the beat frequency, obviously no change as this effect has a frequency, at first frame in, a beat effect as shown in the attached pic with misaligned overlays from the beat effect. Timeline at frame level and 1 frame in beat has an effect. With sensitivity cranked up one can easily see the beat shift. This beat effect will increase and reduce to have aligned frames again at 2sec interval for a frequency of 5, 1 sec for 10, so on.

Jeff

Quote

Hard to say without a look at exactly what FX you are using, PD know to do strange things with transitions and effects.

But, as far as beating would not stand out frame by frame, yes it certainly will. One can easily see if you overlap same footage with transparency, so at time 0:00:00, start of clip and start of the beat frequency, obviously no change as this effect has a frequency, at first frame in, a beat effect as shown in the attached pic with misaligned overlays from the beat effect. Timeline at frame level and 1 frame in beat has an effect. With sensitivity cranked up one can easily see the beat shift. This beat effect will increase and reduce to have aligned frames again at 2sec interval for a frequency of 5, 1 sec for 10, so on.

Jeff

Hi Jeff

Thanks for your input on this - Im going to experiment a bit more with this and come back to this thread when identified a few more things

If it had been once through the video I could accept a bit of human error, but several times was pushing the boundaries which prompted the initial question

I think the biggest pain with effects are the Fade ones when doing music as they have a tendency to shunt the synched music and video out of alignment - but at least I know to look for that now

regards
Andrew

Quote Hi Jeff

Thanks for your input on this - Im going to experiment a bit more with this and come back to this thread when identified a few more things

If it had been once through the video I could accept a bit of human error, but several times was pushing the boundaries which prompted the initial question

I think the biggest pain with effects are the Fade ones when doing music as they have a tendency to shunt the synched music and video out of alignment - but at least I know to look for that now

regards
Andrew

Yes, definitely be careful with the transitions. What they do with a independent music track and synced content has different consequences if "overlap" or "cross" transition behavior is used. For simply fade one can also use the timeline transparency with keyframes or just do the fade as a post on one clip and a pre on the next clip, two transitions vs one.

Jeff

Quote

Yes, definitely be careful with the transitions. What they do with a independent music track and synced content has different consequences if "overlap" or "cross" transition behavior is used. For simply fade one can also use the timeline transparency with keyframes or just do the fade as a post on one clip and a pre on the next clip, two transitions vs one.

Jeff

Yes its so easy to overlook such issues until you realise they exist particularly when there are numerous clips

I even tried unlinking the music track, and just cutting the overlap video section a bit longer to have an overlay type fadfe, but it refused to work as I had hoped - in the end as you suggested I discovered that it was best to put the fades on both tracks, the fact that the fades can be shortened independently as well was a good find

regards
Andrew