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Total Confusion on the Time Line Frame Rate
7Seven [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Dec 02, 2018 21:46 Messages: 14 Offline
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Please someone help. What do I actualy set my perferences at when I intend to make a movie and burn it to a Blu-Ray disc?
Do I set my project perferences to NTSC 60 fps or do I set it to NTSC 30fps. I do not totaly under stand why there are 2 NTSC choices? I want to make a compliant Blue_ray disc for family and friends.

My Gopro footage was shot at 60fps but what do I set my software preferences to please 60 or 30? And why?
optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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The 2 NTSC choices are because old-style TVs could only display 60 interlaced frames per second (all the even lines would be displayed in 1/60th of a second, and then all the odd lines would follow). The content displayed is equivalent to 30p.

Modern monitors, TVs, tablets and phones all work with progressive scanning, so the video no longer has to be interelaced, or displayed 1/2 at a time. Blu-Rays are actually interlaced, but PD will handle that conversion automatically.

For your question, the timeline frame rate should match your source clips (or the highest frame rate if you have clips with multiple rates). This ensures that any transitions and effects will occur with the highest precision. For your all your GoPro projects, you'll use 60 and you don't ever have to give it a second thought.

YouTube/optodata


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browniee112 [Avatar]
Member Joined: Dec 28, 2017 03:57 Messages: 66 Offline
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Quote Please someone help. What do I actualy set my perferences at when I intend to make a movie and burn it to a Blu-Ray disc?
Do I set my project perferences to NTSC 60 fps or do I set it to NTSC 30fps. I do not totaly under stand why there are 2 NTSC choices? I want to make a compliant Blue_ray disc for family and friends.

My Gopro footage was shot at 60fps but what do I set my software preferences to please 60 or 30? And why?


You should be able to put your timeline framerate to 30fps at the very least.

They say for a cinematic looks, you edit with timeline frame rate of 24fps, where this gives you ability to slow down your footage 2.5 times.

Easy answer, I will choose 30fps. Harder answer, if there are lots of "panning, brisk camera movements" I will definitely use 30fps for timeline fps.
7Seven [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Dec 02, 2018 21:46 Messages: 14 Offline
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Quote


You should be able to put your timeline framerate to 30fps at the very least.

They say for a cinematic looks, you edit with timeline frame rate of 24fps, where this gives you ability to slow down your footage 2.5 times.

Easy answer, I will choose 30fps. Harder answer, if there are lots of "panning, brisk camera movements" I will definitely use 30fps for timeline fps.


Camera movment is there, but not briskly. 75 % of my footage is from multipal GoPro static cameras mounted in a fishing boat.
What I do not understand is if the USA TV signal is 30 fps or really 29. bla,bla,bla.... How can I edit at 60 FPS and in the end burn my MP4 file to a Blue-Ray disc with maybe a menu and it play in everyone elses Blu-Ray player? I thought you had to edit at the frame rate of your intended playback device. Such as on a TV using a Blu-Ray player?
AVPlayVideo
Senior Contributor Location: Home Joined: Apr 06, 2016 19:03 Messages: 703 Offline
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Quote Please someone help. What do I actualy set my perferences at when I intend to make a movie and burn it to a Blu-Ray disc?
Do I set my project perferences to NTSC 60 fps or do I set it to NTSC 30fps. I do not totaly under stand why there are 2 NTSC choices? I want to make a compliant Blue_ray disc for family and friends.

My Gopro footage was shot at 60fps but what do I set my software preferences to please 60 or 30? And why?


In my view 60 FPS is better especially if the original video is (P) plus keep FPS from the source in your case everything you have render, transition effects will play but smooth.
I always use 60 FPS even though I'm going to create a DVD, PD will convert to 60 (i) automatically.
For the case of the video is 30 FPS (P) same thing, in Produce I choose Profile 30 FPS and activate SVRT if possible.
I think, when saving on video, the Profile FPS prevails that you choose in Produce.
tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6464 Offline
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Quote What I do not understand is if the USA TV signal is 30 fps or really 29. bla,bla,bla.... How can I edit at 60 FPS and in the end burn my MP4 file to a Blue-Ray disc with maybe a menu and it play in everyone elses Blu-Ray player? I thought you had to edit at the frame rate of your intended playback device. Such as on a TV using a Blu-Ray player?


60 fps or 59.94 fps is in the blu-ray specifications. I have been creating them for the last 5 years with PowerDirector.
7Seven [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Dec 02, 2018 21:46 Messages: 14 Offline
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Quote


60 fps or 59.94 fps is in the blu-ray specifications. I have been creating them for the last 5 years with PowerDirector.


Thank you , this is what I wanted to know. What to use for making a Blu-Ray disc. Thanks.
browniee112 [Avatar]
Member Joined: Dec 28, 2017 03:57 Messages: 66 Offline
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Quote

For your question, the timeline frame rate should match your source clips (or the highest frame rate if you have clips with multiple rates). This ensures that any transitions and effects will occur with the highest precision. For your all your GoPro projects, you'll use 60 and you don't ever have to give it a second thought.


Hi could someone please elaborate a bit on this?

So if the original footage was 120fps and timeline is 24fps, the transitions and effects will not occur with highest precision?

Most of premiere pro cinematic video tutorials suggest shooting at highest fps that your camera allows thus allowing you to play back at slower fps on a 24fps setting, also allowing for smooth speed ramping/slowing down etc. None of the premiere pro tutorials mention any loss is precision for effects.

Curious what this means, please reply.
pmikep [Avatar]
Senior Member Joined: Nov 26, 2016 22:51 Messages: 285 Offline
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I'm not an expert on this like the others are. But having wrestled with frame rates before, the way I think about it is this: The frame rate of the time line and the frame rate of the final render are two different animals. (Although related.)

That is, for editing your video, where, say, you cut at a halfway point, you want the frame rate of the editor to match the frame rate of the material you're cutting. That way, the cut occurs exactly where you want it.

Once you've cut and trimmed, frame rate doesn't matter as much for rendering and you can render to the same - or lower - frame rate than you edited at.

IIRC, I have read that modern 'film makers' have done that. They recorded at 60 fps but rendered at 24 fps for cinematic reasons.

While I can see that a cut done at frame 30 on a 60 fps video won't be at a halfway point if the final video was rendered at 24 fps, it will be close enough.

But I might be wrong. Let's see what the experts say.

P.S. This topic comes up often enough that I wonder if it should be covered in the PDNews. (If it hasn't already.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 10. 2018 17:49

optodata
Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline
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Hi could someone please elaborate a bit on this?

So if the original footage was 120fps and timeline is 24fps, the transitions and effects will not occur with highest precision?

Most of premiere pro cinematic video tutorials suggest shooting at highest fps that your camera allows thus allowing you to play back at slower fps on a 24fps setting, also allowing for smooth speed ramping/slowing down etc. None of the premiere pro tutorials mention any loss is precision for effects.

Curious what this means, please reply.

pmikep has a good understanding of this, and what I was referring to specifically is timing precision. By that, I mean imagine you have clips from 2 sources on your timeline - one 60p and one 25p.

If you have the timeline frame rate set @ 25, then every frame will coincide with the 25p clip but not the 60p, and if you wanted something to happen on a specific 60p frame you may be out of luck because PD has to discard more than half of them. It will match the 60p clip to the project frame rate by skipping 2 or 3 frames each time so you'd have to settle for the closest available frame.

Conversely, if the project rate is 60fps, then you have full access to every 60p frame (that's what I meant by precision) and PD will simply duplicate every 25p frame plus add in a 3rd one as needed to fit the project's 60p time frame. Stretching the duration of the 25p clips doesn't actually add any video information, but it also doesn't lose any and for the final output PD will just drop one frame every second.

For 120fps projects it's a little different because you're intentionally (I assume) going to be slowing the clip down for very clear slow motion (at least at some point in the final video). Personally I don't ever produce to less than 60p beacuse I want clear, fast (real time) motion, but I can see the allure of a 24fps video for slo mo.

In sort of a reversal of the downside of a low frame rate in my first example, here it's the high project frame rate that will be "wasted" because everything is going to happen on a 24fps scale in your final output, so there's not really any value in timing things at 60fps.

The exception here is in any sections where you DO use slow motion, because there you may want to have more (timing) control of when a clip starts or stops and may want finer adjustments if you have things like motion tracking going on.

With all that said, I'd say it's completely your call to use 60 or 24 for your project frame rate. You might want to try a project with each setting to see if one of them either makes more sense given your goals and editing style.

Now that I understand your situation a little better, I don't think either is a "wrong" choice - they just have different benefits and limitations.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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