Thanks for starting this new thread. Before I even get started on downloading and testing, you've just explained everything what's going on with this single sentance: Almost all my videos are rotated 180 since I record upsidedown (crafting), and I sometimes change exposure and brightness settings.

There's NO WAY PD can do all that processing in real time, but there IS a simple way to resolve this

Take your project as it currently stands, with all the processing and flipping, and produce it. Next, start a new project (or clear out the stuff on the timeline that's already in the produced video) and continue editing. Now, PD doesn't have to do all that processing work every time you play the affected clips, and your editing experieence will be SOOOO much better.

There are some other ways of getting this done, (like pre-rotating/correcting the raw files and actually replacing the source clips with the new versions), but we can discuss those options later if my first suggestion is at all hard to work with.

Let me know how it goes!

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

omg...I DID NOT think of that as an issue! I will give it a try first thing tomorrow morning.

You're awesome. I'll report back sometime late morning =D

Also, if you have suggestions to pre-rotate videos, I'd be happy to hear them since I'll probably have to rotate them, encode as one big file, then re-edit, which will take a while my raw files are generally an hours-worth of footage. If possible, I want to keep them as individual clips to make editing scenes easier.

OK. Here's the simplest way of dealing with this both in your current project and gping forward. First, your current project:

1. Close PD


2. Copy every source clip for this project that needs rotation to a different folder. You don't need copies of any that are already right-side-up


3. Open PD and create a new project


4. From the gear (Settings) menu, go to the File tab and set the Import folder to the new folder where you just made all the copies


5. Now set the Export folder to the folder where your original clips are still sitting


6. Import that folder into the media room


7. Put the first clip in the timeline, and use the Power Tools, Video Rotation to flip it 180


8. Go to the Produce tab, and choose the same settings as your original clips


9. Here's the tricky part - click on the [...] button in the Output folder window, and choose the original clip with the same name as your rotated clip.


10. Click on the Start button, and confirm that you want to overwrite the existing clip


11. Follow steps 7-10 until every clip in the the copied library has been rotated and produced, so all the original clips will have been replaced by their rotated versions


12. Now reopen your original project, and you'll see that the clips in the media room and on the timeline are already rotated, with all your editing intact


13. Go through each clip on the timeline and remove the rotation from all the clips you had orignally rotated. (This only needs to happen once in an existing project)


14. You're done!

If you want you can try that step again if you had to make a lot of exposure or color corrections, but the idea is the same - to pre-produce your source clips one time so PD doesn't have to keep processing all those changes when you're doing regular editing.

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

Hey! =D

So I tried editing with NO color adjustments and I kept my files upside down just to test the theory of perhaps my activities are too heavy for the editor, but the results were the same. The only effect that was applied to a couple of the clips was a X2 speed. This is a relatively SMALL project I tested on, and the editor is still behaving the same way. You can see the timeline skip by itself to the end again even though nearly nothing was done to the files to make them too burdensome. I never had this issue with PD12 or PD10, I don't know why it's there in PD13.

Video of the exact same issue without flipping or modifying esthetics: https://www.dropbox.com/s/159v61dc83x00e2/ScreenCapture_2015-8-19%2010.5.34.wmv?dl=0

(Ignore the random audio, I did random voice trims just to mimic the amount of cuts I normally do)

What other guesses might you have for this behavior? ^_^

(Although I will definitely be using the flipping video method you described for future projects!!)

The first this I can suggest is to lower your preview quality two levels, from Full HD down to High.

The next step is to turn off the 2x speed and try that.

If the first suggestion works, you're all set. You can always bump up the resolution if you need to see everything clearly, but for general editing it's too much to ask, no matter how powerful your computer

If the second suggestion works, than you would probably want to add speed change to the list of effects that should be pre-produced.

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

My preview quality is already set to High or Normal most times

I can't turn off 2x speed because I can't tell which clips need x2 or x8 until during the editing process. How is PD so weak that is can't handle its own features? Would there be better stronger editors out there for my needs? I need something that will be able to handle my work. I edit 2-3 videos a week, and can't work with a program that is having a hard time doing simple work. I don't even add effects or graphics lol.

^_^

I can work with pre-flipping my videos, but I can't guess which speed the other clips have to be at ahead of time unfortunately.

I know you're frustrated, and I'm trying to help. The lagging you're experiencing isn't because PD can't handle its own features- it's because even the "simple" tasks you're asking for require tremendous processing power to achieve in real-time. Your computer is roughly between a 7 and 8 out of 10 in terms of video processing ability, and while there are definitely more powerful systems out there, yours should be well suited for video work.

I mentioned turning down the preview resolution because in your screen capture it looked like it was set to Full HD. Since that's not the case, let's move on.

You mentioned that you can't turn off the video speed change, but I'm not asking you to do that permanently or pre-produce those clips ahead of time. What I'd like you to do is turn off the features temporarily and see if that stops the skip-ahead issue.

The easiest way to do that (and not worry about restoring each clip's speed) is to save the project before you make any changes, then go in and manually uncheck the Video Speed box on every sped-up clip and try previewing. When you're finished, either close PD or reopen your project but DON'T SAVE it when prompted. PD will then open your project just as you saved it (without any changes) and you'll have the answer to whether the speed changes are the problem.

Another thing you can try is to turn on shadow files and let PD work with low-resolution copies, which will speed up everything when you're editing. The down side is that it takes time to create the shadow files, but if you let the process finish you should see a big improvement in the editor's response. See this *thread* for more details, and you can skip to my first repsonse to get the relevant info.

Finally, if you could pack the project materials (under the File menu) and save them to a DropBox folder and post the link, that would let me and other members try out your project on different machines. That can help determine if something's not right with your computer or if it's really just the impact of the effects. It would also let us try out other scenarios that might result in a workflow that would reduce or eliminate the lag.

One or more of these suggestions should end up making a big difference. Hang in there!

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

You're awesome!!

Thank you for guiding me through this!! I will give these a try sometime tomorrow and report back =D

Hi!!



I did a mini project of less than 2 minutes, and without ANY effects whatsoever (no flip, no speed, no adjustment of colors), the timeline was ok. No skipping occured.

I took the same project, and did ONLY flip and speed ups (no color adjustments), and the timeline did skip, as well as the voice/video lag started again.

I can't seem up upload my packed files to dropbox because it's about 3GB and my limit is 2GB. Any suggestions where else would be possible? ^_^

Sure! Here's a link to a folder called *Jackie* on my OneDrive account. Go ahead and upload your packed project there and we'll see what we can figure out.

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

You're the best! It's uploading now =D

I have the project and will do some testing on it now. I'll post what I find, and hopefully I'll come up with some suggestions for smoother editing, too...

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

ARGH!!!

I solved the problem and had spent more than 20 minutes writing a thoughtful and detailed explanation of what was going on and how to resolve the issue, when suddenly the page refreshed for some reason and everything I'd typed was gone. Everything.

So here's the short version: As I had suspected, the reason you're seeing the lag is that even those two steps of rotating and speeding up the video require your computer to extract and calculate every single frame and then rotate or skip each one, and it just can't do that in real-time at 60fps.

The simple solution is to convert your existing source clips to (and to record all new ones at) 30fps. I've done that for all your project clips and have uploaded them to the OneDrive folder in a new subfolder called "30fps clips." With those clips in place, I can now preview your project in High and HD resolution (but not Full HD), and everything works perfectly now because the CPU is doing half the work it had to do with 60fps clips.

For what you're recording, 30fps is plenty fast and the fact that you end up speeding the clips up means you're actually throwing away almost all the frames anyway. However, PD still had to work through every single one of the discarded frames to create the preview, and that's what caused the lag.

Now here's the best part: All you have to do is copy the new vesions of the clips to your original folder and overwite the 60fps versions. That's it! When you open PD, all of your edits will be as you left them and your preview should work like you expect it to. No re-editing or changes needed of any kind, and you can get on with your life

For fun I also produced your clip with the converted clips (I just added a fade out at the end) and you can see how good the quality is by clicking *here*

Anyway, let me know how this works for you, and/or if you need any help converting any other existing clips to the lower frame rate.

BTW, I changed the project frame rate to 30FPS (NTSC) and I produced to the standard MPEG-4 1920 x 1080/30p (16Mbps) profile. Make sure you change the project frame rate too, and you're free to choose another output if you like.

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

OH NO! Such a bummer that the page refreshed on its own X_X

I used to edit at 30fps, but I've upped my quality of video production since my channel got a lot bigger. If I want to continue editing at 60fps, what hardware do I need to upgrade on my computer? By now, you know I have a youtube channel lol, and * here it is *. You've been such an awesome support!!

I'm going to use all the other strategies you suggested until then so that the editor doesn't feel overwhelmed (pre-flipping, prespeeding some parts). <3

Jackie, congratulations on the success of your channel

I definitely understand why you want to up the quality of your videos, and I'm sure that PD will be able to help you do that.

Maybe you're thinking of bit rate when we're talking about frame rate. The bit rate is mostly about how much information (detail) is in each frame, while the frame rate is how many frames are recorded or played back per second. They are separate but related as I'll explain in a minute.

If you think of how much detail is in a still photo vs. a freeze-frame of a video, the photo is much clearer because it contains a lot more detail (data). Because you spend time looking at a single photo you can easily notice blurred or pixelated areas, but in a video those flash by so quickly that they're not really noticeable UNLESS the bit rate is so low that there are always blurred or pixelated areas.

On your clips, you're recording at the maximum quality of 35Mbps (megabits per second) and I'm not suggesting that you reduce the video quality in any way.

However, the bit rate is actually determind by how much detail the video contains multiplied by the number of fames per second. If you recorded at 30fps with the same quality, your bitrate would be lower (17Mbps) because there are only half as many frames per second. Does that make sense?

The video quality is completely unchanged and only the number of frames each second have gone down, and remember you're throwing most of those away anyway when you speed up your clips!

Please the produce your project as-is, with your original 60fps clips, and then again with my 30fps conversions. When you compare the produced files side by side, I don't think you'll see any difference between them but working with the 30fps clips in the editor is night and day compared to what you've experienced.

As far as what kind of an upgrade you'd need to be able to work on projects like yours in real-time, I think you'd be looking at a whole new workstation-level system with dual Xeon CPUs, and systems like that run in the $7k - $10k range. I'm not kidding.

That's whay I've really focussed on what you can do with your workflow to get the quality you need without A) spending 2 arms and a leg, and B) pulling your hair out and hating life because the skipping/lagging makes editing almost impossible.

For future projects, if you record at 30fps I'm pretty sure that you'll be able to work with rotation speed changes in the timeline in real-time. If there are still some lags, then pre-rotating or speeding up just those clips would certainly solve the problem.

For any current or unfinshed projects where you've already recorded at 60fps, running them through any converter (even PD) to get them to 30fps will make your life easier.

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

I think you're right. I might be confusing FPS with Mbps. But I think my camera only gives me strict options to work with ( see pictures of the options on my camcorder.I did a quick test of 35 vs 24 mbps, and the quality difference is a lot (I uploaded the two samples on your onedrive). The image is a lot less crisp. When I did the change from 24 to 35, my viewers noticed right away how much more crisp the video is. And it scares me that I'd need a 7k$ computer to edit this kind of quality lol. I might just have to suck it up for now and keep producing high quality vids on lag-mode. I know that some of the quality is lost when I speed up, but not all the clips are done that way, so overall I'd be downgrading the whole video for a few scenes that are sped up if I go with 24mbps (since anything other than 35mbps is reduced to 30fps)...am I making sense? lol

Yeah, you're on the wrong screen because what you're setting is the bitrate, NOT FPS. What make and model is your camcorder? I can quickly look up the manual and get you to the frame-rate menu.

Once you change the frame rate, you'll see lower bitrates on that menu, and you'll want to set the highest one, which should be 17Mbps. That will get you the same full quality you have now but with easier-to-work-with clips.

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°

Canon Vixia HF R500 =D

I just saved a PDF copy of the manual in the shared OneDrive folder, and the steps to change the frame rate are on page 79. At the top of page 80 is a note that you can't change the frame rate if you've set the camera to 60p or 35Mbps, and the description about video quaility settings on pg 56-57 seems to imply that you may need to change to AVCHD instead of MP4 to get the highest quality at 30P. PD handle both types equally well and I prefer the quality of MTS (AVCHD) clips to MP4 (I have two Canon Vixia HF S200s and a top-end HF G30).

Either way, bring the video quality down one step, than change the frame rate to 30p and go back to the video quality menu and see if you can get the highest quality in MP4 or AVCHD without changing the frame rate back to 60p.

The last note on pg 57 says that shooting in "baby mode" means that 60p is not available, but it seems that 35Mbps still is - so that might be how you have your cake and eat it too

YouTube/optodata

DS365 | Win11 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 4070 Ti | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°