Graphic cards and drivers

1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Solved by

Oct 08, 2014 09:22

The now old phrase is still valid; I am a tech light person.

The last few days, the forum has been much about nVidia cards and drivers.
During the years, countless posting on the forum has been: update your drivers!!!
People have been posting their Dxdiags only to get this response:
Update your graphic card driver!
Replace your graphic card!
Along with answers to different issues have often been: Uncheck HA !

These days it’s a different tune: Roll back your driver! Install this fix!
About 7-8 months ago, we who had gotten newer nVidia cards, the 700xxx ones, encountered
different issues with PD 12. Up here with me, there was severe troubles with PiP/Modify window.
The troubles can be viewed here :

http://youtu.be/y3mJbwC-Lpw and here: http://youtu.be/ykQDXk8mhOU

The troubles also seemed to be linked to Win 8/8.1 (?)
CL/R&D did work on it for a long time, and there were patches released.
A fellow member on the forum advised me to uncheck everything 3D upon installing
nVidia driver. Actually that made “the yellow line” go away and PD work better overall.

As far as I know, the 700xxx cards were on the market from summer of 2013.
Card and driver is not the same thing, but I am somewhat puzzled by the system requirements
for PD 13 announcing “GeForce GT/GTS/GTX 200/400/500/600 Series” and
“For users of NVIDIA cards who have updated to graphics driver 340.43 or later,
the video hardware acceleration feature in PowerDirector is no longer available.
To re-enable hardware acceleration, please download and install an earlier driver.”

Are there video editors left with 200/400 cards I wonder?
The card on my previous desktop was a 400 card and when taking the leap for a new desktop,
a card lower than a 700xxx seemed to be out of the question, not only for my tech light head,
but for every tech heavy head I consulted. Already, 700xxx cards are passed by 800/900.
The problems with the 700xxx cards were there almost a year ago. The release of PD 13 took
place about a month ago. Why should “a fix” be necessary ?

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-770

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

dampflokfreund

Newbie Joined: May 21, 2012 13:36 Messages: 17 Offline

Oct 08, 2014 13:36

AMD Radeon has this issue too with 14.9 WHQL.

Eugen157

Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 00:17

Using driver 314.07, HA is not working. updating to 337.88 did not help, in fact it greyed out the HA box so I went back to 314.07. My GPU is a GT640 with 12 GB of memory.

Same problem with PD12 and now PD13

Eugene

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A

Wiel Gulpen

Newbie Location: Simpelveld - Netherlands Joined: Sep 24, 2014 12:31 Messages: 3 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 02:52

Hi there,

This is my first post in this forum.

may be this will help.

I use PD 12 and Studio 16.1. After I updated my driver from 314.07 to the next level, i also experienced fat problems in Studio. I was not able anymore to place more then, let's say 20 titles, in a whole film. Placing the titles on and on made the reaction of Pinnacle Studio 16 very, very, very slow. At the end I wasn't able to place titles anymore.

I went back to driverversion 314.07 and hey, all works as it should.

Greetings from Wiel in Simpelveld.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 02:55

Panasonic HDC-SDT 750, Gopro 3BE, Nikon D5000, Iphone 6SPlus, I3770, 16 Gb, 550TI, Windows 7, 64 bit, PD13 Ult, PhD6, Pinnacle 18 Ult. VdG 9

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 06:46

Nina, those numbers are just meant to confuse

400 series is actually a "Fermi" card. They re-badge the Fermi with 500 and even some 600 series (entry level).
Then they modified the chip - "Kepler" . Those are some 600 and most of 700. To make matters even worse, GT640 exists in both variants - one Fermi and a newer Kepler one.
A few weeks ago a new chip is out. Maxwell. Only 3 cards are based on it, 750, 970 and 980.

All in all the graphic card is used only if the drivers and PD collaborate. CL used an h264 encoder that was provided by nVidia in their drivers.
That collaboration will be "broken" for any nVidia card with drivers newer or equal of what CL states, because nVidia took out the encoder. My hack was to add the older missing encoder files after I install newer drivers.

Also, having a card better than generation Fermi will not help, mainly because CL software does not make use of the newer capabilities.

In conclusion if you have a top of the line GTX480, keep it! You will need a faster CPU to keep up with the card when using HA.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 06:49

1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 07:37

Hi all,

I try not to spend too much time dealing with tech stuff.
It’s more fun to actually edit.

But confusion strikes when things leave me with a ?
Sometimes PD does odd things, and my tech light head gets bewildered.
“Why does this happen?” “Huh?” “ Why did this same file become larger in the second render ?
I didn’t do anything with it!”
“ Why, when I render to default 30p, set my preferences to 30p and then when
adding the file to timeline PD tells me it’s a conflict – because the file is 29.97?”
“Why does my text template alter the keyframing
when I open in Modify again to correct a spelling?”

Now the concern is about graphic cards and drivers.
I put something together this morning, just because I was curious.
I don’t go about these things in a scientific way, so make of it what you will.
At this point I just assume my graphic card works with the latest driver.
I may, of course, have gotten it all wrong…….
Probably best watched on YT.

Nina

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 08:58

That's a cute video!
In your case I am sure that the nVidia HA is deactivated, but your Intel CPU supports another kind of HA, and that's is what you see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video#Hardware_encoding

I personally have a "400 series" card (actually two - Quadro 2000 and a Quadro 6000) and like to have the latest drivers. Installing the latest will grey-out the HA option in "produce" tab.
Managed to "go around" this issue by leaving the latest drivers installed and copying the three missing files back in system folder.
That cleared any drivers issues for me in both PD12 and PD13 (trial):
https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/40521.page

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 13:39

philscomputerlab

Member Joined: Oct 09, 2014 03:04 Messages: 53 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 12:19

The best graphics card and drivers for stability and reliability are Intel on-chip graphics.

While I have a GeForce card I never use these hardware acceleration technologies. I'm finding that the file sizes and quality outcomes can be a bit of a mixed bag.

A modern i7 does well as it is and you can save a lot on the graphics card. Website
YouTube

philscomputerlab

Member Joined: Oct 09, 2014 03:04 Messages: 53 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 12:51

This topic is interesting so I went ahead and tested it. The finished project is here: http://youtu.be/yO4WWOJbGX8

With CPU only rendering it took 2:15 and 265.6 MB and with hardware encoding 2:00 and 246.6 MB.

Machine is a Core i7 3770, 8 GB, GTX660, Windows 8.1 64, PD 12, Latest Nvidia driver.

Encoding setting > MPEG-4>Defaults>1920x1080 30p 16Mbps.

EDIT:

So using hardware encoding is faster and you get smaller file sizes. So is there a catch?

Let's take a look. I've opened both renders in VLC and took a frame accurate snapshot.

At first there are no visible difference. But look closer and you can see that CPU encoding preserves more detail.

Compare the ventilator unit that is to the top left of the soldier in the back. On the CPU encoded video you can see more detail, the blades and some sort of a mesh. The hardware encoded video has less detail here. I cut the section out and put them side by side:

So there you have it, while CPU encoding takes a bit longer and needs more space, it also preserves more detail.

So let's look at the file size. The profile states bitrate of 15500 for video and 384 for audio. This is kilo bits per second. So together 15884 kbps.

The video has a duration of 143 seconds. Which are 2271412 kilobits. For bitrate the conversion factor is 1000. So these are 2271412000 bits.

Convert to bytes by /8 and we have 283926500 bytes. Convert to MB by /1024 twice and we get 270.77 Megabyte.

So CPU encoding is also closer to the projected file size.


Filename	Hardware Encoder.png	Download
Description
Filesize	1187 Kbytes
Downloaded:	117 time(s)


Filename	CPU encoded.png	Download
Description
Filesize	1478 Kbytes
Downloaded:	113 time(s)


Filename	CPU vs Hardware Encoding.PNG	Download
Description
Filesize	166 Kbytes
Downloaded:	113 time(s)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 13:48

Website
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SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 13:30

Did you have active the HA like you see it in my picture above?
Or it was greyed out?

I am suspecting that, using the "latest nVidia drivers", you are actually disabling the nVidia HA. What remains activated is the Intel "Quick Sync Video"...
So you are comparing Intel CPU with... Intel CPU.

To elucidate the mystery, please run the encoding with HA and with GPU-Z running in background. "Sensors" tab will tell you each GPU load while encoding.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 13:37

philscomputerlab

Member Joined: Oct 09, 2014 03:04 Messages: 53 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 13:36

Quote: Did you have active the HA like you see it in my picture above?
Or it was greyed out?

I updated my post with more info.

Yes!

So when I talk about hardware encoder it is like in your screenshot. When I say CPU encoder then the tickbox Fast Video Rendering Technology is NOT ticked.

Some hardware sites looked into this phenomenon years ago but it seems nobody does any more. But I always knew that CPU encoding will give you the best quality for given file size. This is because CPU encoders are not limited in what arithmetic calculations they can perform whereas hardware encoders are. Website
YouTube

1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 13:44

Philscomputerlab, hi -

Your posts are getting harder and harder to read
because of the huge space they take and swells away at the right side.
Hate to point this out, but what you are posting doesn't get
too heavy tech, I would like to be able to read them :

Nina
Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 13:48

"Some hardware sites looked into this phenomenon years ago but it seems nobody does any more. But I always knew that CPU encoding will give you the best quality for given file size. This is because CPU encoders are not limited in what arithmetic calculations they can perform whereas hardware encoders are."

The Intel HA that you used is indeed limited by hardware quality presets.
The nVidia CUDA encoder (present in drivers up to 337) was based on software running on CUDA cores. Basically it can be exactly the same code as the CPU one, it is just being executed on different processors.

nVidia switched to a pure hardware version in 600 series (Kepler and Maxwell), but that encoder I don't think is used yet by PD. Maybe quality issues?
That's why using the older drivers will activate the nVidia CUDA encoder. That's only visible on a machine that is not equipped with Sandy Bridge or newer Intel CPU.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 13:56

philscomputerlab

Member Joined: Oct 09, 2014 03:04 Messages: 53 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 13:49

Quote: Philscomputerlab, hi -

Your posts are getting harder and harder to read
because of the huge space they take and swells away at the right side.
Hate to point this out, but what you are posting doesn't get
too heavy tech, I would like to be able to read them :

Nina

Sorry about that I removed that image. It's in the attachment.

Quote: Did you have active the HA like you see it in my picture above?
Or it was greyed out?

I am suspecting that, using the "latest nVidia drivers", you are actually disabling the nVidia HA. What remains activated is the Intel "Quick Sync Video"...
So you are comparing Intel CPU with... Intel CPU.

To elucidate the mystery, please run the encoding with HA and with GPU-Z running in background. "Sensors" tab will tell you each GPU load while encoding.

Intel QuickSync is not supported on my motherboard / chipset when a dedicated graphics card is installed.

Thanks for the tip with GPU-Z, never thought about that

My driver is version 344.11.

It shows 45% load, the core and memory clocks jump up at the start of the render for a while but then go down again. GPU temperature also goes up a tiny but. Before the render everything was basically 0.

But anyway, I'm sticking with CPU rendering

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 13:57

Website
YouTube

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 13:58

So is not actually working, except the beginning "jump"? My GPU-Z shows constant GPU load, till the whole video is encoded.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 13:58

philscomputerlab

Member Joined: Oct 09, 2014 03:04 Messages: 53 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 14:06

No the load is constant around 40%. Website
YouTube

1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 14:20

Guys;

Your knowledge – and interest of this stuff stands out.

I made the screen capture this morning just to verify that the latest
driver to my 770M card seems to me to be working fine – also with PD 13.
In the light of all posts regarding the driver issue, in both 12 and 13 forums,
I just wanted to point out that :

all I have done is not installing the 3D stuff which will be added to the installation
if you don’t choose custom install and get it ticked off.

Of course, if you should need nVidias 3D stuff in games – that’s
another cake to bake.

Nina

Edit; marking my point with red- in case any of you should want to try it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 16:58

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

Eugen157

Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 14:22

I can only drool with envy what you all can do in HD that is not supported yet for 4K HEVC.

Wiel Gulpen,

I too used P* for over 12 years but switched to PD about 2 years ago, the main reason being the use of proxy editing, shadow files as they call it.

An other reason was SVRT but that never worked reliably, so I do not use it.

They take a while to generate but I wait until they are done and then edit.

This allows to edit long 4K videos w/o any hangups, in fact my last long 4K video is app 90 min long.

Wish PD would make the proxy conversion faster, there is a reported bug that slows the process down.

Eugene

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A

1Nina

Senior Contributor Location: Norway, 50km southwest of Oslo Joined: Oct 08, 2008 04:12 Messages: 1070 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 14:33

Eugene, sir

this thread is about (nVidia)graphic cards and drivers

Just something.
https://www.petitpoisvideo.com

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Oct 09, 2014 15:06

Quote: No the load is constant around 40%.

Well, then I don't know what to say except this quote from CL:

NVIDIA:
GeForce 8500GT/9800GT and above
GeForce GT/GTS/GTX 200/400/500/600 Series
PLEASE NOTE: For users of NVIDIA cards who have updated to graphics driver 340.43 or later, the video hardware acceleration feature in PowerDirector is no longer available. To re-enable hardware acceleration, please download and install an earlier driver.

My cards are all from Fermi generation (Quadro 600, 2000 and 6000, same family with GeForce series 400 and 500) and my CPU doesn't have Quick Sync feature.
I need to copy the missing files in order to have HA active.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Oct 09. 2014 15:15