Not sure I can solve your problem, but a couple of related comments:

1) Interesting you used the word "wobbly". That's exactly the same word I have used to describe what you see when you allow Content Aware Editing to correct shaky video. The worse the shaking in the original, the more pronounced the wobble seems to be. So I guess you have a choice, your video is either shaky or wobbly :

2) I have considerable delays and drags from Preview. However, when I either Produce it or Create a disc, all seems to be fine. I do not have the problem you are describing.

Hi,

I think I probably got the word 'wobbly' from your entry on the Forum, during my trawl through the Forum last night.

In your note above about Content Aware editing I suspect you are referring to hand held camera shake and PD 11's ability to stabilise that. Mine certainly isn't that because the camera was very securely positioned on a tripod.

Having watched some of Star Wars last night my problem with the images on DVD is rather like the way they start to make characters disintegrate after being zapped.

Grandad Ron

Yes, definitely referring to camera shake, so with the tripod that's obviously not the same thing.

Hi Grandad Ron ,
The following is a guide and a guess...

1. Please can you attach a diagnostic of your computer - gives more information. Part A & B
2. Your graphics card is indeed going to cope with HD but will have a low struggle point when stressed.
3. Your CPU is weak to deal with rendering HD footage, beyond small short projects and if you add anything to the tracks other than video it will slow and skip sections at certain points.
4. You should only create to the same video format, utilizing SVRT is important for your computer. Same in, same out - render is a peril!
5. Shadow Edit files - are you using these. Please provide a screenshot of your project's Edit Workspace. Guide Part E & F.
6. Please attach an analysis of your video. See Part J.
7. You've already unchecked hardware acceleration - what else have you unchecked/checked in Preferences?
8. Have you applied the latest patch?
9. Disc production, check the option to "create to folder" - this will separate the strain of render and disc production for your CPU.

Guide: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/24771.page
Patch: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/29029.page
Drawing a conclusion here would be unfair at this time. A lot points to a low powered CPU struggling with content rendering. Pixelation and interlace motion issue is more pronounced in my opinion when a CPU struggles. Having a low end GPU doesn't help either and makes the editing event an unhappy experience.

Just my opinion. If you can get the info to us we'll try and assist.

Dafydd

Hi Dafydd,
Have been missing from my base, hence the delay in replying.
That delay has changed the nature of things because I downloaded the latest patches (3026) on Friday. At that point I felt it appropriate to provide information about my computer as it was when I was getting both the stuttering on EDIT and after PRODUCE and the very-poor quality of the DVD Burn. However, this morning I ran the same section of video footage through PRODUCE and CREATE to DVD with the updates; the stuttering was the same but the quality of the DVD Burn was completely different and showed only minor inconsistencies around the edges of some of the images.
Using the Intelligent SVRT application it still applied the same mode at the PRODUCE stage - AVS 1920 x 1080/50p - 28Mbps. BUT at the CREATE stage I was presented with a different VIDEO ENCODING QUALITY previously H264 now MPEG 2 (without any alternatives available) and allowed HQ Best Quality which had not appeared before.
I would obviously like to pursue the stuttering issue and if possible have enough power in my CPU and GPU to improve the quality of the final burn to DVD
Thank you for getting on-board - I will try and follow your topics, although I'm out of my comfort zone once I'm asked anything about the basics.
1. Will attach DxDiag of the computer with the updates
2. It would be quite easy to change the graphics card, but which one would be best for this HD footage ?
3. Changing CPU of course is more complicated and with the Dell 546 three years old it would probably mean another computer, but what size processor would keep me out of trouble and is the 8gb RAM big enough ?
4. I take it that you mean PRODUCE and CREATE at the original video format ?
5. Enable HD Video processing (shadow file) is checked in General Preferences
6. Analysis of Video attached
7. I’ll start by listing the ‘IMPORTANT’ ones, if I’ve misjudged what is important please let me know. – GENERAL – TV Format – 50fps - CONFIRMATION – Everything is checked
7. HARDWARE ACCELERATION – Both unchecked – PROJECT – Reduce video blocky and Allow SVRT are unchecked
8. As mentioned above I have now updated to the most recent patch(es)
9. Can I assume you mean checking ‘Create to folder’ as well as ‘Burn to Disc’ ?
As you rightly say this is an unhappy experience when the original footage and the Blu Ray copy are almost perfect. Since I can get such a good copy on a Blu-Ray does this mean that the CPU and GPU have to work so much harder to squeeze the high definition material onto a DVD, and in my case there is not enough power to handle it ?

GUIDE INFORMATION SHEET
1. Operating System is Windows 7 - 64Bit
2. Version PD – Ultimate – 11.0.0.3026
3. SR number PUS120822-01
4. Codec - AVCHD Video (.MTS) 1920 x 1080 50p
5. Detailing Problem(s)
a. Image stutters during EDIT, at the start, even before any Transitions, Titles etc are added
b. Lowering the resolution on the Preview Screen helps but at the lowest resolution the image is too small to see the action
I used the INTELLIGENT SVRT button to apply the recommended PRODUCE mode - AVC 1920 x 1080/50p 28Mbps. Stuttering is still present after PRODUCE, as seen on PREVIEW at the CREATE stage. Checking the DVD Box on CREATE set the ENCODING as MPEG2 - HQ Best Quality
Burning a Blu Ray solves the stuttering and produces a very good quality image
Burning a DVD also solves the stuttering and with the new updates I have just burned an acceptable image on DVD, although not of the quality of the original HD or the Blu Ray burn.
6. Virus – AVG
7. Codec Packs – Sorry I don’t understand that phrase. Have searched for ‘Codec Pack’ but nothing comes up on the computer
8. Other Video Editing Programmes. Cyberlink 10, Nero, AVS and the pre-installed Windows Programme
9. I think those above have Burn Processes, plus 1 Step Copy and IMGBURN, just added after reading Forum notes.
10 Blanks - Verbatim DVD-R, and DVD+R also TDK–all burned at the lowest rate + TDK Blu Ray
11 New Untitled Project (a Cyberlink I have open) is shown in BG Applications ‘RUNNING, difficult to replicate what was running at the time these issues came up.
12 I will add the dxdiag plus the same for 64bit.
13 I have produced a Screenshot of the original video during the edit stage - attached

I guess I am looking for a recommendation that a certain size CPU and/or GPU will solve the problems I'm having with stuttering (particularly with 1920 x 1080/50p images from the Panasonic 900) and will help with the less than perfect images on the DVD burn.
The fact that a Blu Ray burn is perfect seems to suggest that all the front end is fine, ironically that was already the case before I installed the latest updates.

Quote: Hi Dafydd,
Have been missing from my base, hence the delay in replying.
That delay has changed the nature of things because I downloaded the latest patches (3026) on Friday. At that point I felt it appropriate to provide information about my computer as it was when I was getting both the stuttering on EDIT and after PRODUCE and the very-poor quality of the DVD Burn. However, this morning I ran the same section of video footage through PRODUCE and CREATE to DVD with the updates; the stuttering was the same but the quality of the DVD Burn was completely different and showed only minor inconsistencies around the edges of some of the images.
Using the Intelligent SVRT application it still applied the same mode at the PRODUCE stage - AVS 1920 x 1080/50p - 28Mbps. BUT at the CREATE stage I was presented with a different VIDEO ENCODING QUALITY previously H264 now MPEG 2 (without any alternatives available) and allowed HQ Best Quality which had not appeared before.
I would obviously like to pursue the stuttering issue and if possible have enough power in my CPU and GPU to improve the quality of the final burn to DVD
Thank you for getting on-board - I will try and follow your topics, although I'm out of my comfort zone once I'm asked anything about the basics.
1. Will attach DxDiag of the computer with the updates
2. It would be quite easy to change the graphics card, but which one would be best for this HD footage ?
3. Changing CPU of course is more complicated and with the Dell 546 three years old it would probably mean another computer, but what size processor would keep me out of trouble and is the 8gb RAM big enough ?
4. I take it that you mean PRODUCE and CREATE at the original video format ?
5. Enable HD Video processing (shadow file) is checked in General Preferences
6. Analysis of Video attached
7. I’ll start by listing the ‘IMPORTANT’ ones, if I’ve misjudged what is important please let me know. – GENERAL – TV Format – 50fps - CONFIRMATION – Everything is checked
7. HARDWARE ACCELERATION – Both unchecked – PROJECT – Reduce video blocky and Allow SVRT are unchecked
8. As mentioned above I have now updated to the most recent patch(es)
9. Can I assume you mean checking ‘Create to folder’ as well as ‘Burn to Disc’ ?
As you rightly say this is an unhappy experience when the original footage and the Blu Ray copy are almost perfect. Since I can get such a good copy on a Blu-Ray does this mean that the CPU and GPU have to work so much harder to squeeze the high definition material onto a DVD, and in my case there is not enough power to handle it ?

GUIDE INFORMATION SHEET
1. Operating System is Windows 7 - 64Bit
2. Version PD – Ultimate – 11.0.0.3026
3. SR number PUS120822-01
4. Codec - AVCHD Video (.MTS) 1920 x 1080 50p
5. Detailing Problem(s)
a. Image stutters during EDIT, at the start, even before any Transitions, Titles etc are added
b. Lowering the resolution on the Preview Screen helps but at the lowest resolution the image is too small to see the action
I used the INTELLIGENT SVRT button to apply the recommended PRODUCE mode - AVC 1920 x 1080/50p 28Mbps. Stuttering is still present after PRODUCE, as seen on PREVIEW at the CREATE stage. Checking the DVD Box on CREATE set the ENCODING as MPEG2 - HQ Best Quality
Burning a Blu Ray solves the stuttering and produces a very good quality image
Burning a DVD also solves the stuttering and with the new updates I have just burned an acceptable image on DVD, although not of the quality of the original HD or the Blu Ray burn.
6. Virus – AVG
7. Codec Packs – Sorry I don’t understand that phrase. Have searched for ‘Codec Pack’ but nothing comes up on the computer
8. Other Video Editing Programmes. Cyberlink 10, Nero, AVS and the pre-installed Windows Programme
9. I think those above have Burn Processes, plus 1 Step Copy and IMGBURN, just added after reading Forum notes.
10 Blanks - Verbatim DVD-R, and DVD+R also TDK–all burned at the lowest rate + TDK Blu Ray
11 New Untitled Project (a Cyberlink I have open) is shown in BG Applications ‘RUNNING, difficult to replicate what was running at the time these issues came up.
12 I will add the dxdiag plus the same for 64bit.
13 I have produced a Screenshot of the original video during the edit stage - attached

I guess I am looking for a recommendation that a certain size CPU and/or GPU will solve the problems I'm having with stuttering (particularly with 1920 x 1080/50p images from the Panasonic 900) and will help with the less than perfect images on the DVD burn.
The fact that a Blu Ray burn is perfect seems to suggest that all the front end is fine, ironically that was already the case before I installed the latest updates.

Hi Grandad Ron
1. RE: 7. HARDWARE ACCELERATION – Both unchecked – PROJECT – Reduce video blocky and Allow SVRT are unchecked I have those checked.
2. Image of your project: Do not start editing any video files where you have Shadow edit files still being created, see yellow icon, bottom left in video thumbnail. All shadow edit files must be created before you drag or move anything to the timeline. (just my opinion). You are likely to incur editing problems as your CPU is using resources to continually create shadow edit files.
3. You asked about a bigger and better PC for computer editing. To answer that question I believe additional views from members would also help.
i7, 16gb of ram, 2gb gpu (with HDMI - look up gamer capable cards), large ssd/c drive, additional HDD's, fan cooled tower, large monitor(s), SD card reader, USB3, BluRay Writer, W7 or W8 (OEM disc purchase) OS's. Select a good motherboard.
Something along those lines. It is processing power you need to display HD and 4K, speed of data transfer is important and that's why I've put in an SSD as one of the requirements.
I hope some of that helped.
4. Downscalling number crunching is what you're doing when you change a HD video into DVD and it is a resource hungry event. You can do it with your current set up but you have to allow it to process data (shadow files) before editing or it will end up with your PC chasing its tail trying to do too much and failing to finish the task.

Again just my opinion. - Thank you for the additional information.

Dafydd

Dafydd,

Thank you for the information regarding Shadow Files.

I have been looking at Gamer and NLE Workstation details and I'm delighted that they match your thoughts on the subject.

There is no doubt that attempting to edit the 1920 x 1080/50p images from the Panasonic 900 is a different ballgame and I would be grateful for any suggestions regarding the ideal (not the minimum) system requirements from any Forum Member.

Thank you, yet again !

Grandad Ron

Dafydd,

Since my last contact, yesterday, I have looked very seriously at the subject of Shadow Files and realise that I have never understood what it does and how it works - that's after 4 years of using Cyberlink editing over 150 hours of original material - from 16mm film, 8mm film, VHS and Super VHS Videotape, Hi8 Videotape, DV Tapes and SD Cards.

Your comment about the yellow icon on the video thumbnail, from my screenshot set me on a path to see what should happen. In the past I have always dragged the thumbnail down to the timeline immediately, not realising that I had to wait from a 'green' icon to show that the Shadow File(s) had been created. How was I supposed to know, there are three lines in the current 273 page User Guide (page 211) and there's nothing about icons ?

Even those three lines don't make sense because I had assumed that the Shadow Files were created at low res so that the low powered computer systems could use the processor etc to power the edit rather than the preview screen. BUT Page 211 states - 'Enabling this consumes more CPU resources'.

I imported a 32 sec segment of my 1080/50p video into the Media Centre and it took nearly two minutes to give me the green icon.

I also imported a 21 minute section and when I left last night, after an hour, it still showed the yellow icon. This morning that was green.

When I bring the 21 minute segment down into the Timeline (with the Shadow File shown as created - Green Icon) it runs without any stuttering.

Bringing a 21 minute segment down with the Yellow Icon in place does stutter, which is essentially what I have been doing since the Shadow File element was introduced.

Also, if I play any of the segments from the Media Centre directly on the Preview Screen they play perfectly.

I have read a number of Forum notes about Shadow Files and green icons so I suspect that I'm not the only one who has failed to wait for the file to complete.

I now have 6 segments of video from the SD Card waiting in the Media Centre for the Shadow Files to complete before I proceed on the Timeline.

This has probably solved my stuttering problem but is there a answer to the number crunching aspect you refer to when burning a DVD - is that a function of a bigger/better processor (for example the Quad Core i7), the memory (for example 16gb). Or the HDD/SDD ?

But, presumably not the Graphics Card ?

Dafydd, thanks again for spotting the little yellow peril on my Screenshot.

Grandad Ron

Quote: Dafydd,

Since my last contact, yesterday, I have looked very seriously at the subject of Shadow Files and realise that I have never understood what it does and how it works - that's after 4 years of using Cyberlink editing over 150 hours of original material - from 16mm film, 8mm film, VHS and Super VHS Videotape, Hi8 Videotape, DV Tapes and SD Cards.

Your comment about the yellow icon on the video thumbnail, from my screenshot set me on a path to see what should happen. In the past I have always dragged the thumbnail down to the timeline immediately, not realising that I had to wait from a 'green' icon to show that the Shadow File(s) had been created. How was I supposed to know, there are three lines in the current 273 page User Guide (page 211) and there's nothing about icons ?

Even those three lines don't make sense because I had assumed that the Shadow Files were created at low res so that the low powered computer systems could use the processor etc to power the edit rather than the preview screen. BUT Page 211 states - 'Enabling this consumes more CPU resources'.

I imported a 32 sec segment of my 1080/50p video into the Media Centre and it took nearly two minutes to give me the green icon.

I also imported a 21 minute section and when I left last night, after an hour, it still showed the yellow icon. This morning that was green.

When I bring the 21 minute segment down into the Timeline (with the Shadow File shown as created - Green Icon) it runs without any stuttering.

Bringing a 21 minute segment down with the Yellow Icon in place does stutter, which is essentially what I have been doing since the Shadow File element was introduced.

Also, if I play any of the segments from the Media Centre directly on the Preview Screen they play perfectly.

I have read a number of Forum notes about Shadow Files and green icons so I suspect that I'm not the only one who has failed to wait for the file to complete.

I now have 6 segments of video from the SD Card waiting in the Media Centre for the Shadow Files to complete before I proceed on the Timeline.

This has probably solved my stuttering problem but is there a answer to the number crunching aspect you refer to when burning a DVD - is that a function of a bigger/better processor (for example the Quad Core i7), the memory (for example 16gb). Or the HDD/SDD ?

But, presumably not the Graphics Card ?

Dafydd, thanks again for spotting the little yellow peril on my Screenshot.

Grandad Ron

Hi Grandad Ron,
Regarding the HD/DVD - slow slow burning is the best option AND write to folder. Really it is Write to folder and then move the data to a disc. What we used to do in years gone by when dealing with disc writing also applies to slower computers crunching the render process. Don't do anything else on your computer while the render is taking place.

Regarding Shadow edit file. Both VN800rider/Adrian and myself carried out some early tests with Shadow File generation (this bit is all from memory) when they first came with PDR. What we found was that files that were still with the yellow icon appeared to be in perpetual generation at some points if they were dragged to the timeline. The partial shadow files would be deleted/not available and newer ones had to be made compounding the problem with CPU resource use. Where a green icon was present - Shadow files were fine. I have not used shadow files since that time - steering clear of them and having a more powerful computer (previous PC's) meant I certainly didn't want to use them much. If you have to use Shadow files... wait for the green icon.

For a better editing experience editing HD files... a bigger better more powerful computer helps a lot. Please be aware that all consumer based computers will have limitations. Not everyone gets to use a super computer like the one in Barcelona!

Dafydd

Thanks again Dafydd,

I would be interested to hear how other contributors have overcome the shadow file anomalies and the best way of preserving the original video and blu ray quality onto the final DVD Burn.

Grandad Ron

Dafydd,

I have one final entry on the subject of Shadow Files, I hope.

I had a further 80 minutes of SD card HD video to IMPORT into PD11 yesterday morning, with ENABLE SHADOW FILES checked.

After just over 6 hours, three of the 20 minute segments showed the GREEN ICON, one still showed YELLOW, but I'm reasonably sure that will be OK this morning.

For my computer, 2.60 Processor, 8gb RAM and GeForce 220, I am fairly confident that the low res Shadow Files will give me an image on the Preview Screen that I can work with, without the stuttering that make it almost impossible.

Without any user guidelines I am not all that confident what will happen after I finish the EDIT - for example will it process and render the Shadow File ?

I guess I'll have to do what I have been doing by creating a small edited segment, go through the whole process, and see what comes out.

I've been using re-writable Blu Ray and DVD discs which allows me to run these tests without wasting a blank.

I do find it odd that the User Guide has 4 or 5 pages relating to an add-on like PARTICLES but nothing of any consequence about a basic edit function like SHADOW FILES. It has certainly caused me hours of frustration since I have been trying to EDIT images that are still in the process of creating the Shadow Files - Please don't get me wrong, when I need to add the Fog in 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' those pages will be invaluable.

Your notes on the way to produce a perfect/better DVD are appreciated, I will certainly follow that advice.

Grandad Ron

Hi Grandad Ron ,
Just a quick note for you.
Shadow edit files are only used to edit video on the tracks, they do not get rendered or used in the creation of the final project. They are a guide (of where you edited) for the program.
Dafydd

Dafydd,

Thanks - now I feel confident !

Grandad Ron