Cranston, Tony,

Thanks for the feedback.

Perhaps the error message is not related to the .MOV issue. At this point, I'm grasping at straws.

The .MOV file is a 50MBps file from my Panasonic GH3. 50MBps is a bit higher than your .MOV files, but not that much higher. And my system (a PC with 32GB of memory and a fast disk subsystem) was designed and built (by me) specifically to perform photo and video editing on high resolution images and clips. It should not have this issue. For reference, the same clips preview perfectly in my other video editor (which will remain unnamed )

Regarding the file... It is an unmodified file - never touched by any editor. This afternoon, I took a 5 second clip to upload for DafyDD's use. No change in the strange behavior. To summarize that behavior:

- Sometimes it jitters and stops, or lags way behind the audio.
- Other times, it displays at a very low resolution.
- Still other times it does both - displays at a low resolution AND jitters and stops.

I just want my .MOV clips to preview properly at full resolution in PD11. I do NOT want to raise a ruckus and compare PD11 to other products.

Thanks and regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Another tidbit of information... The preview mode doesn't seem to be act "rationally". When I change the Preview Mode and Preview Quality, sometimes it doesn't take. For example, when changing the video quality from "HD Preview Resolution" to "HD Full Preview Resolution", the preview quality does not change. And sometimes when changing the Preview Mode to non-realtime, the video does NOT slow down.

And about 30 seconds ago, it threw a new curve at me - PD11 hung completely! Windows Task Manager is showing CPU activity, but PD11 is totally hung. No response at all. I'm pulling my hair out! (Since I'm 66 and somewhat "follically-challenged", that is NOT a good thing!) Arrrgh!

Any additional help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan.

Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Dafydd,

Attached is the 5-second .MOV file as promised.

Thanks,

Dan.

Quote: Hi Dan,
Following our excellent PM exchange. I'll jump into this thread and see what can be done to assist you.

1. Thank you for the diagnostic file and your images.
2. Looking through your diagnostic. Which drives do you draw/store your video and image files from/on? I have noted that large drives have caused PDR11 problems with response times.
3. I'd like to have some samples from your Panasonic GH3 please. I don't have any images or footage to work with to assist/check out.
3-1. MOV file 5 seconds long, unedited please.
3-2. A few image files, might be useful to have.

I don't believe Dan is doing a comparison test (poorly titled Topic) in the way he's posting here. He is stating quite clearly that Adobe Premiere (which he is experienced in) will play his MOV and PowerDirector 11 isn't (etc). The aim here is to address the MOV file in relation to PDR11. Many quality still cameras (such as a Canon 7D) produce video create to a very high bitrate and that does cause display issues on some systems. Dan's system is specifically designed for video editing and should not be encountering display or useage issues. I'd like the sample files to find out if my system (or any other editor's) can cope with the MOV.

Dafydd

Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

And here is a screen shot of the previewed video. FYI... As of about 10 minutes ago, the MP4 preview started showing the same low quality. This is beyond bizarre. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Dan -

Downloading you sample now. Might take a while.

Just to really put PD & my poor little PC through its paces, I'm also downloading a raw (unedited) sample file from the GH3 shot at 72MBps. I think I can predict the outcome.

Your camera gives you the option to record in MPEG-4, AVC or MOV? Is that correct?

Cheers - Tony
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Tony,

Yes, all three formats. In my other video editor, where all is well, the .MOV formatted file seems to have a slight edge in quality. Since I just got the GH3 a few weeks ago, this is the first .MOV format I've ever shot. I'd like to work with it more.

And yes, I'm pretty sure I can predict the outcome. Now if I know why...

Just for grins, what video card are you using? Other folks, what video cards are you using?

Thanks,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Last time I mentioned my GPU here, it was ridiculed. That guy had some serious issues with manners! I guess I could risk it again.

OK - if it'll give you a smile - it's a GTX260 (card - singular). Yes - there are many times I find it seriously wanting.

One of those times just occurred. I couldn't tell from your (almost) static sample clip whether it was playing smoothly or not, but the other 50MBps (50fps) sample I downloaded juddered all the way through. I produced it to 1920x1080 MOV @ 44MBps (50fps) and that file played smoothly.

Oddly, the 72MBps sample clip played more smoothly in PD - it was shot at 25fps.

Can't really help much because what I'm seeing is clearly a result of hardware deprivation!

Cheers - Tony

By the way - the sample clips behaved just the same using the "other product"
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Just for grins, what video card are you using? Other folks, what video cards are you using?

Hi Dan

I've been following this thread with interest as I use a Canon DSLR that shoots in MOV that work perfectly on an Apple video editng software and sometimes just sometimes not so on my laptop PC.

I've downloaded and imported your clip from my my C Drive - not sure where your source files are - and imported it into PD and I could not replicate your issue - sorry

Graphic card issue maybe?

My computer specs are on my signature



Happy editing

Happing editing

Best Regards

Neil
CubbyHouseFilms
My Youtube Channel
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Gentlemen,

Thanks for the feedback. For the third time, I'm uninstalling and reinstalling the suite. This time, I used the Revo Unstaller very aggressively. Hopefully it got everything. Also, I noticed that, in addition to the PhotoDirector patch, there was a PowerDirector patch that I had not installed. After the main install, I'll install the patches and see how it goes.

If it's still broken, I'm not sure what I'll do. Maybe get a another video card and try that, or maybe give this up as a lost cause. I don't want to do the latter for multiple reasons, but I'm getting very frustrated.

Again, thanks and regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Well, everything is updated. The good news is that the PD11 seems a bit more stable - when you change preview modes, the changes "stick" and weird "stuff" seems to happen less. The bad news is that it still stutters.

I have a couple of other video cards which are not as good as the GTX470 that I have. I'll try those to see if there is any change. If not and if CyberLink can't figure out how to fix this...

Regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Hi dan_public123,

Thank you for the video sample Dan, just what was needed.

I don't think you need to downgrade your graphics card. The GTX260 like the 250 in an older set up I have, both don't take advantage of the latest DirectX and have limitations on display capabilities compared to newer cards. I haven't looked up or used your GTX470.

As an aside, (using MediaInfo to examine the file) look at the tagged date of the video, perhaps you should change a setting in your camera.
Encoded date : UTC 2013-06-25 17:24:06
Tagged date : UTC 2004-10-01 11:28:13

I'm experimenting with your file so will add some data later.

Dafydd

Dafydd,

Thank you for your efforts. I hope you can find something.

One more factoid... This morning I deinstalled my GTX 470 and installed an NVidia Quadro 4000 - a high end video card that is very good for 3D cad modeling by pretty mediocre for anything else (a bad buying decision for my needs). Nothing changed. So I reinstalled the GTX 470.

Regards,

Dan.

Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Hi Dan,
I have replicated a Preview display issue which occurs repeatedly for the 5 second sample in "Clip and Movie". Preview display in Full, HD and High settings.

Please can you provide an mp4 sample - I'd like to check that one out as well.

As an asside.
The MOV clip uses the mp4 codec. I was unable to get SVRT to work. I had a QT error display with the Mov profile I created. I did create a (Profile.ini tweaked) large bitrate mp4 profile that rendered out to the same high bitrate (retaining quality). Hardware acceleration did display for the mp4 I created. Maintaining quality is important for any editor.

Conflict message regarding frame rate. A quick look at the Pan video file sees it listed as 59.94 exactly. The thing is frame rates do vary and 29.97 is actually 29.969999999. The concern should be what the output file is.

PM sent

Dafydd

Quote: Hi Dan,
I have replicated a Preview display issue which occurs repeatedly for the 5 second sample in "Clip and Movie". Preview display in Full, HD and High settings.

Please can you provide an mp4 sample - I'd like to check that one out as well.

As an asside.
The MOV clip uses the mp4 codec. I was unable to get SVRT to work. I had a QT error display with the Mov profile I created. I did create a (Profile.ini tweaked) large bitrate mp4 profile that rendered out to the same high bitrate (retaining quality). Hardware acceleration did display for the mp4 I created. Maintaining quality is important for any editor.

Conflict message regarding frame rate. A quick look at the Pan video file sees it listed as 59.94 exactly. The thing is frame rates do vary and 29.97 is actually 29.969999999. The concern should be what the output file is.

PM sent

Dafydd

Dafydd,

Hi. I was hoping to get a decent clip for you showing movement, but the winds are dead calm this evening. I'll try to take clips tomorrow morning and upload. I say "clips" because I want capture clips of the exact same scene (probably trees limbs waving around) in different formats so that they are completely comparable. If the winds stay calm, I'll go down to the marina and take some clips there.

Again, thanks for your efforts.

Best regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

This .MOV issue is very odd. It became more odd when I read this thread on the Camtasia Studio support forum: http://feedback.techsmith.com/techsmith/topics/_mov_file_images_lagging_way_behind_the_audio. It looks like the exact same issue in two different products. Very strange. There may be some outside issue that is related to the underlying technologies and tools that these products use, and not some defect in Camtasia or PowerDirector.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. I posted this here because of the incredible similarity of the .MOV issue. I own both Camtasia and PowerDirector. While both work with video, I don't see them as competing products at all and given the .MOV issues believe it's reasonable to post the link to the Camtasia support forum. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

At the request of Tech Support, I used MediaInfo to get details about the 20 second MOV data file that I've been using for testing. For reference, the file is attached.

Regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Hi. CyberLink tech support sent me a two page list of suggested fixes. I implemented them yesterday. Result: No change. MOV clip issue still exists. However...

I realized that my prior clips were taken ad hoc and hand held. Not really good for testing. So yesterday, I captured new test clips in with the camera locked down on a tripod, pointed at the same scene. To keep human error out of the process, the camera was set to full auto mode.

The GH3 is brand new to me and has many video capture formats, and I haven't chosen which I'm going to use. So ensuring that all GH3 formats work in the PD11 is important. Therefore I captured all of the GH3's Full HD video frame rates and formats - AVCHD (60p and 30p), MP4 (60p and 30p), and MOV (60p, 30p and 30p ALL-Intra). Here is a summary of the test results using Preview Mode "Real-Time Preview" and Preview Quality "Full HD Preview Resolution":

AVCHD - 60p: Video Playback rate OK. Video quality OK. Audio OK.

AVCHD - 30p: NO preview video (black)! Audio OK.

MP4 - 60p: Video Playback rate OK. Video quality OK. Audio OK.

MP4 - 30p: Video Playback rate OK. Video quality OK. Audio OK.

MOV - 60p: Video Playback rate choppy and hesitates (i.e. MOV issue still exists). Video quality OK. Audio OK.

MOV - 30p: Video Playback rate choppy and hesitates (i.e. MOV issue still exists), but somewhat better than 60p. Video quality OK. Audio OK.

MOV - 30p ALL-Intra: Video Playback rate OK!!! Video quality OK. Audio OK.

I was very surprised by the "AVCHD 30p" and "MOV - 30p ALL-Intra" test results. As you can see, AVCHD 60p worked fine, but 30p doesn't preview. This doesn't make sense, but it what it is.

I was floored that the "MOV - 30p ALL-Intra" worked perfectly! Of all the formats that I expected to fail this was at the top of my list. "MOV - 30p ALL-Intra" uses an All-Intra codec, wrapped in .MOV running at up to 72 Mbps. Luminous Landscape's explanation of "ALL-Intra" is: "All Intra means is that there is no interframe encoding. In other words each frame is a stand-alone, not using fancy data compression called LGOP (Long Group of Pictures) where the amount of compression used depends on how information much changes between frames.")

While the "30p ALL-Intra" format is very desirable, it is also only 30p. The most desirable format for me is the MOV 60p. The AVCHD 30p issue is bothersome, but not critical (I'll log it as a bug separately, though).

I only have about two weeks left to resolve these issues and make a final decision - start using PD11 only or re-subscribe to use my other video editor (not my preference). My other video editor's subscription runs out on 7/13/2013. CyberLink apparently offers a 30 day return policy. So the middle of July is my deadline. The clock is ticking.

As requested by Dafydd, I'll upload the MP4 60p video in the next post.

Regards,

Dan.
P.s. When I tried saving the project that includes all the clips in the Media Content window, PD11 locked up at the 20% level ("Saving chapter thumbnails"). I killed PD11 and then restarted. On restart, it found and loaded the temp project file. On "Save", it saved just fine this time. (Given the issues I've seen before with instability after editing, I suspect that there is a memory leak somewhere.) Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Attached is 5 second clip in MP4/60p and it's Media Info file.

Regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

For reference, attached is a new 5 second clip of the same scene in MOV/60p format with its Media Info file.

Regards,

Dan. Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

Finally, here is the final new 5 second clip of the same scene in AVCHD (MTS)/60p format with its Media Info file. If anyone is interested, I'll be happy to upload clips in the same scene in other format/speed combinations.

Regards,

Dan.
Director Suite with PD11
PC: Win7/64, 32Gb memory, SSD sys disk, Raid 5 data disk, Raid 0 production disk.

It's an interesting problem, Dan!

Initially, my logic told me it must be related to the high bitrate of the .MOV clip. On my poorly endowed PC, the first clip you posted jerked its way through playback. The same thing happened just now when I tested P1000691.MOV. The other two clips were fine - smooth playback

BUT

I took that P1000691.MOV and produced it to MOV 1920x1080 @ 48MBps (59.94fps) and it played back perfectly in PD's preview window. So - it's not just about the bitrate.

Better get the techies in, Dan. I can't figure that one.

Neil couldn't replicate the playback issue, but Dafydd could.

Cheers - Tony


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