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Best format to burn Blu-ray
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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My source files are 1920x1080/60p. When burning to Blu-ray which format should I choose to produce the highest quality image for watching on a large HDTV; 1920x1080/60i, 1920x1080/60i (24 Mbps), or 1280x720/60p?
All vodi
Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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Ronk,

In MPEG2 mode those are your only choices. 1920x1080/60i would be your best choice since your original is also 1920x1080 aspect ratio.

However, you can also burn to BD using the newer more efficient format of H264. Here you have more options. Including the 1920x1080/60i and 1920x1080/24P.

Burn to folder first to see which plays and looks the best on your PC. Win 10, i7
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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Thanks. I was talking about H264 ... I should have said so. I tried 24p and it was jittery. So I need to choose between 1080i and 720p, both at 60 fps. Also, I don't know what the difference is between 1920x1080/60i and 1920x1080/60i (24 Mbps).
All vodi
Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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I have not looked at the differences between 1920x1080/60i and 1920x1080/60i (24 Mbps). A short test and a check on properties of the clip will tell you.

Do NOT use 720p or any format less than 1920x1080 to ensure max resolution to your HD screen. Win 10, i7
stevek
Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline
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Jittery output may be a function of your computer and not of the format you are selecting. Please post Part B in this thread:

Part B Here: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/7958.page

Are you using an off brand blu ray disc? .
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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My disc is Verbatim DataLifePlus BD-R White Inkjet, 6x, 25GB, which is made by Mitzubishi.
While the 24p was jittery, the 60p was smooth when played on my HDTV. Both were burned on the disc type above.
Attached are my two Diagnostic files.
 Filename
64RonkDxDiag.zip
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
8 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
662 time(s)
 Filename
RonkDxDiag.zip
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
10 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
662 time(s)
Raife [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Oct 12, 2012 21:30 Messages: 15 Offline
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Ronk - FYI - I have a similar thread here: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/26291.page
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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I burned the same input onto four Blu-ray discs and compared the M2TS files on the discs:
1280x720/60p
bitrate: 15.58 Mbps
framerate: 59.94 fps progressive

1920x1080/60i (24 mps)
bitrate: 22.72 Mbps
framerate: 29.97 fps interlaced

1920x1080/60i
bitrate: 15.84 Mbps
framerate: 29.97 fps interlaced

1920x1080/24p ... this is the only one that looked jittery
bitrate: 15.70 Mbps
framerate: 23.976 fps progressive

My HDTV is a Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR4 which is 1920x1080
My Blu-ray Disc player is a Sony BDP-S370/BX37

I guess the question is: Is it worth going down to 1280x720 just to be progressive rather than interlaced?
stevek
Senior Contributor Location: Houston, Texas USA Joined: Jan 25, 2011 12:18 Messages: 4663 Offline
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You said: "I guess the question is: Is it worth going down to 1280x720 just to be progressive rather than interlaced?"

Beauty (and video output quality) is in the eye of the beholder. You have to compare the outputs to see which one is best for you. You willbe the one that will be watching the vidoe the most. Also, if you make blu ray discs, other people will have different ploayers and TVs. Try the same disc that you made on someone else s equipment. What do they look like if you play them on your computer?

If you have outputs that look good at 1080 regardless of "p" or "i" use that (in my humble opinion).



.
.
BoilerPlate: To posters who ask for help -- it is nice to thank the volunteers who try to answer your questions !
Anything I post unless stated with a reference is my personal opinion.
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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Thanks. Since I produce video projects that I share with friends, the answer would be to find the best format in general. Even more so, when you consider that my friends and I may have different TVs and players down the road.
It is unfortunate that the Blu-ray specification does not support 1920x1080/60p. Apparently there is a way to force such format onto a Blu-ray disc, but I would be surprised if all equipment supports it, since it is not part of the specification.

Around here ABC and ESPN broadcast at 720p whereas NBC and CBS use 1080i. So there is apparently no consensus which is the better format.
Eugen157
Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline
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Ronk, I would pick 1920x1080 60i anytime over 1280x720 60P.
Looks much better. After all HD is all about more pixels. And always use the highest bit rate available.
If anyone claims that there is no difference between 17 and 24Mb, then I assume they do not know what to look for.

Try to video in the format you are going to output. You DO NOT WANT TO RE-ENCODE.

PD11 is the only software, reasonably priced, I know of that will not re-encode unmodified files.



Eugene 73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A
All vodi
Senior Contributor Location: Canada Joined: Aug 21, 2009 11:24 Messages: 1431 Offline
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Ronk ,

1. The reason that you see the 24p format jittery is simply the difference between the number of frames. If you take 60 shots of a flying bird in a minute and then select only 24 of them (one out of every 3 approx) to display then the result will of course be "jittery". Stick to the max = 60 frames.

2. The 1920x1080/60i (24 mps), bitrate: 22.72 Mbps clip you tested is of higher resolution because the sampling rate is higher. The highest quality = 24 mbps.

3. The networks use 1280 only because it's cheaper for them. It is inferior to 1920.

4. Interlacing becomes an issue only when the the subject matter is very fast, such as some sports. "i" is good in the majority of cases. Win 10, i7
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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Thanks for the great responses.
I moved to PowerDirector back in the PD9 days because it handles so many video and audio formats natively and I hate to convert files before I edit. Some of my projects contain several video filetypes and several audio filetypes. I use files from many sources, including my camera which shoots 1920x1080/60p. My camera also can shoot at 1920x1080/60i. If I am going to burn Blu-ray at 1920x1080/60i, should I shoot in that mode or continue to shoot and edit in 1920x1080/60p?
I now use PD 11 and I love it.
jmone
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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As other have mentioned, the BD Spec (currently) inculdes either 1080/24p, 1080/60i (50i) or 720/60p (50p), however the AVCHD spec does include 1080/60p (50p) and with the attention that PD has been giving to higher output spec recently I'd not be surprised to see that this option is added to the AVCHD output soon(ish). Once that is done you will be able to keep both the original Frame Rate and Resolution (though many HW/SW players may not be able to play these disks but many will).

So ... for now you have three options for your 1080/60p (50p) source material in PD:
1) 1080/24p: Do not use this option as appart from over halving your frame rate, it will result in judder due as there is no perfect pull down pattern to reduce 60fps (50sps) to 24fps.
2) 1080/60i (50i): Not a bad option as it keeps full resolution but will remove half your frame information so your fancy camera is now reduced to a cheapie.
3) 720/60p (50p): This will halve your resolution but may be a "better" option than #2 pending on your screen size, seating distance, and visual acurity ... have a read of this --> http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/ but basically you may not be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on your setup as shown by this chart

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 01. 2013 21:54

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
jmone
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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What ever your decision is, treat it as a temp workaround till proper 1080/60p (50p) support is offered under the AVCHD disc option.

Other options could be:
- Produce a 1080/60p (50p) file from PD and just "play" that file (many SW and HW players support playing files from a Disc)...
- or, as above but once the file is produced use another prog to author the AVCHD disk in another prog.

I did try a "cheat" in PD of:
1) Produce the 1080/60p (50p) file
2) Produce a 1080/60i (50i) BD Project to the HDD
3) Replace the "00000.m2ts" file in the "\BDMV\STREAM" folder with the file produced in #1
4) Burn to disc using imgburn or the like

Now I have not really tested this but it will be hit or miss if it works as many of the HW/SW players will not like changing format mid stream from the 60i Menu to the 60p content... but it "could" work and it then gives you all the menus etc if you want that. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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Thanks. My screen size is 52" and my viewing distances are 9' to 12'. For now I will probably go with Blu-ray 1080i since I need a format that anyone's players can play.
jmone
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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No probs but most people will not be able to pick the extra resolution at 9-12' on a 52" screen but they may pick the difference between progressive and interlaced. I'd try one of each format and see what you think. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Eugen157
Senior Contributor Location: Palm Springs area, So.CA Joined: Dec 10, 2012 13:57 Messages: 662 Offline
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Thanks for the interesting article jmone.
We have a 55" set in our den allowing a viewing distance of 4 to 8 feet with my wife typically at 8 feet and me at 4-5' depending on PQ. At 3' I am beginning to discern pixels.

We have FIOS TV, so aside the likes of ABC et al, the quality can be pretty good, our home videos, at least since 2005 are in 1440x1080 HD and for the last 4 years are 1920x1080 including 60P.

What kind of a player are you guys using? Recently discovered the Media Player Classic, it will play 4k, albeit a bit jerky on a 1920x1080 monitor. So my system can handle the data rate.

Quite a number of articles in today's WSJ regarding 4K or UHD TV. Should be more and more as the CES in Las Vegas.gets in gear. Will be interesting to watch as that format slowly appears.

The Media Player and VLC player will have problems with 1920x1080 60P at times.

One reason of using 60P is the much lower level of artifacts.
Happy New Year .
Eugene

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 02. 2013 13:00

73s, WA6JZN ex DL9GC
CYBERLINK PLEASE ADD UHD BLU RAY BURNING SOFTWARE
PD14,
Win10,64bit.CPU i7 6700,16GB ,C= 480 GB SSD ,GPU GTX1060 6GB 1 fan. Plus 3 int, 4 ext HDD's for video etc.LG WH16NS40 reads UHD.
4K 24" ViewSonic monitor.Camera Sony FDR-A
jmone
Senior Contributor Location: Australia Joined: Nov 26, 2010 00:05 Messages: 706 Offline
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FYI - we sit about 9' from a 60" Plasma for daytime viewing and 100" PJ screen for movies at night (it is not a light controlled room) - which pretty much covers the 1080p resolved resoloution graph. I have a server with all content that then lets other PC based clients (like the HTPC) access content from + will also transocide to other devices (like andriod, PS3 etc etc). I use JR Media Center for the HTPC and Server software and as it is based on LAV and madVR (private pre config copies) the output looks terrific

We have guests over and were watching some Home Videos and they all commented on how good the "recent" stuff looked (1080/50p)! PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG
Ronk [Avatar]
Member Joined: Mar 06, 2011 17:35 Messages: 95 Offline
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I would like to burn a test video in both 1080/60i and 720/60p to Blu-rays and see which looks better on my player/tv. Does anyone know of a good test file that would make any difference noticeable?
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