mrtavares, thanks for posting the video re: PD 9 Ultra and editing clips from a Panasonic TM700 that were shot at 1080p 60fps. Very helpful and encouraging. Redwing Roger

Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium, Intel Core i7-860 2.8GHz processor, 8Gb DDR3 SDRAM, nVidia GeForce GTS240 1024MB graphics card, 2nd internal HD - WD Black Caviar 2TB. PD 9 Ultra, Build 9.00.2330

No problem Redwing You know what, Cyberlink PowerDirector "8" can also edit Panasonic TM700 clips

The latest patch has fixed my GPU (CUDA) rendering at 1080p60. (It used to produce an error code)

For reference if it means anything to anyone interested:

Original raw clip is encoded at High@L4.2 with 4 reframes.
SVRT rendering after tweaking max bitrate is identical (of course).
CPU rendering default is Main@L5.1 2 reframes
GPU rendering default is Main@L4.2 2 reframes
CPU and GPU rendering at High is L4.2 2 reframes which is closest to original raw profile.

Interestingly CPU rendering often produces a variable frame rate not 59.94 and this causes havoc with my media player : takes ages to load and does not auto select frame rate properly.

Taking full frame snapshots of resulting files reveals both CPU and GPU rendering to be slightly "softer" but it is marginal and in my opinion nothing in it.
Thus I recommend using GPU rendering at High profile with a custom profile changing the average bitrate to 28Mbps and max bitrate to 32Mbps.

Hope this helps. Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

Thanks pjc3 - FYI - (while I'm not going to get a chance for at least a week) I plan to play with some of the values in the custom ini file to see if we can work out how to force outputing High@L4.2 with 4 reframes (or what the other values even do!) PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

FYI - had a bit of a play and here are my results (using Media Info):
Original raw clip: 194MB / 23.4 Mbps / 50fps / High@L4.2 / CABAC with 4 Ref Frames
SVRT: 196MB / 23.6 Mbps / 50fps / High@L4.2 / CABAC with 4 Ref Frames
CPU rendering: 199MB / 23.8 Mbps / 50fps / High@L4.2 / CABAC with 2 Ref Frames
GPU rendering: not available (I've a ATI HD4550 with Cat 10.11 on this rig so I'm not sure if I should or should not get GPU rendering).

Anyway - CPU rendering gets me almost the same profile as original and it looks the same to my eyes however the Rendered file will not present a Video Pin out if using the Haali Splitter, I have to use the MPC-Gabest one. There must be something that Haali does not like with these rendered files - very odd.

Thanks
Nathan

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

1) Speed Quality Indicator - No impact.
FYI - testing by changing Quality Indicator (tried 1,5,6) files were the same as the my current setting (7) for both CPU Rendering and SVRT

2) Dynamic GOP (tried 1 over the default 0) no difference

3) Video Quality (tried 1 over the default 0) no difference

4) Encoder Mode (tried 1 over the default 0) and PD9 complained it would not create the output

5) Deblocking (tried 1 over the default 0) no difference

6) Stream Flag (default is 3) Tried 2 but no output, Tried 1 and you don't get the audio stream PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

I've been playing with GOP structures and BitRates all night. If you want L4.2 High it seems you have to set the Ave Bit rate to under 25mbps but it is still reported as 2 ref frames (hence the higher file size). I've been unable to force the encoder to replicate the same GOP stucture as my 50p files (which is IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBP according to Elecard Stream Eye). In looking at the bit rates used in each frame of the GOP stucture of the original and the rendered files they are completly different anyway so I don't think it is worth the effort of stuffing around. To me it is more important to work out why any of the rendered files (regardless of the settings) dont play using the Haali splitter. Looks like more "fun" till the SVRT stuff is sorted out (which play fine with the Haali splitter). PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Nathan, do you sleep? Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

Ha Ha - I should have said I was playing with this all "evening" (I like my sleep). It is the only change pre-Christmas, so I have two things to work out:
1) Getting it to work with Haali (what splitter do you use)
2) Seeing why Avivo does not work for me with PD9 (edit - seems HD4550 may not cut it for PD's Avivo support - http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/12422.page;jsessionid=49200408471F18583183142541BC71C

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Quote:
1) Getting it to work with Haali (what splitter do you use)

I used to use ffdshow and Haali with a couple of different players but now just use Splash lite (and have un-installed other codec packs). Remembering, though, I am not using my PC as a HTPC - just for playback of raw and rendered files during the editing prosess(es).

Quote:
2) Seeing why Avivo does not work for me with PD9

It seems PD have spent a little more effort being compatible with nvidia than ATI. Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

This has been a very interesting and informative thread, I just wish I knew what the hell everyone was talking about... HP Envy Phoenix/4thGen i7-4770(4@3.4GHz~turbo>3.9)
Nvidia GTX 960(4GB)/16GB DDR3/
Canon Vixia HV30/HF-M40/HF-M41/HF-G20/Olympus E-PL5.
Tape capture using 6 VCR, TBC-1000, Elite BVP4+, Sony D8 camcorder with TBC.
https://www.facebook.com/BarryAFTT

mrtavares,

A while back I saw your posted video demonstrating your work with PD9 and 1080p/60 files from the TM700. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. I have ordered and am awaiting delivery of a Panasonic TM700. I would prefer not to install their HD Writer software if I don't have to as I have heard negative reports on it and there is some question about if it is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit, which I run. A search on the Windows Compatibility list does not show any results. Can you simply drag and drop the video files from the camera to your computer? I also understand that Panasonic has files associated with the video files that get downloaded via their HD Writer software. I assume these files are not needed if all I want is the video files but I'm not sure. Do you know what file extension is associated with the actual video files? Ultimately what I would like to do is create projects that I will burn to DVD. I do not have a Blu-ray burner so will create standard DVD's. Do you know if there is any point in using the 1080p/60 format if I won't be burning to Blu-ray? What I'm wondering is if I will get a better image quality using the 1080p/60 files or if I would be better off just recording and using 1080i/60 files. At this point all I have used PD9 for is to edit old 8mm analog and 8mm digital video that I capture as AVI files and then edit and burn to DVD. My computer handles all of this fine but I'm unsure about if it will have enough power to work with the files from the TM700. I guess I'll find out soon enough. Another thing I have read is that if I record more than 5 minutes of continuous video using the Panasonic TM700, it cannot save the segment as one file but needs to break it up due to file size limitations related to the FAT 32 system. From what I have read, that can create some editing issues. Do you know anything about that? Lots of questions, hope you don't mind. I'm anxious to get the TM700 but also a bit nervous that I may have trouble when it comes to editing the files it produces. Thanks for any help you can provide. Redwing Roger

Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium, Intel Core i7-860 2.8GHz processor, 8Gb DDR3 SDRAM, nVidia GeForce GTS240 1024MB graphics card, 2nd internal HD - WD Black Caviar 2TB. PD 9 Ultra, Build 9.00.2330

I can help with the questions if you like.

You don't need HDWriter. Its only two vaguely useful features is that it can join clips without re-encoding and it has a videoplayer which some use. It has a hopeless UI. I do not have any compatibility issues on 64bit system.

The TM700 is recognised by W7 as an external disc. If you plug in the USB you can see the two storage areas (Card and Internal Memory) as a removable disc in windows explorer. You can simply navigate to the "stream" folder and drag and drop the files to your PC. The files are numbered 00000.MTS etc. The MTS is common extension for video camera. They are .h264 in a mpeg transport stream container. They are the same as a .m2ts file. You can use them directly in PD9.

Bluray spec do not support 1080p60 but only 1080i60 or 720p60 (plus others). DVD, as you know, is 480i. Perhaps consider burning your projects to AVCHD disc on DVD which any DVD burner can do and which can be played in many Bluray disc players. There is some advantage to shooting on 1080p60. My advice would be to shoot in 1080p60, edit and then produce three versions: one in 1080p60 for storing/later use, one in 1080i60 for AVCHD disc and one in 480i for DVD.

My PC is nowhere near as well "spec"ed as yours and I work with the files fine.

Long files are split but not as short as 5 mins. I will check for you today. I wonder if HDWriter joins the clips if I use that to transfer to PC?

Hope all this helps.

ps the TM700 is impressive
Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

I can answer some of these (I'm a TM700 user of Win7 64-Bit but done little PD9 editing to date with this as I'm still finishing off my HDV stuff):
- Copy from TM700: You can also copy the clips (MTS) directly from the TM700 (where they are stored in an AVCHD structure) to your PC.
- HD Writer: It works fine and there are no compatibility issues I have come across. You can use it to copy info from the Cam to the PC and it supports very basic editiing (M2TS). I use HD Writer to copy the stuff across as you have a few options like store in Folders by Date Recorded. It also keeps track of what has already been copied. There are a copy of other related files copied across but all the movie data is in the main M2TS.
- 4GB Limit: It does indead use FAT for the file system (at least on my HDD model). I've only once broken 4GB (about 22 Mins at 1080/50p) but the clips joined up just fine (I actually did a binary copy to combine the two to one 6GB file)
- DVD: IMHO - If you are going to only ever watch your content from DVD there is no point shooting in 1080/60p or AVC or 1080 at all for that matter. You may as well just get a Cam that shoots SD-MPEG and save yourself all the re-encoding PITA. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Thanks pjc3 and jmone for your responses, very helpful and appreciated. I already have the TM700 on the way and maybe down the road I'll have the equipment and know how to take advantage of the 1080p/60. pjc3, I thought I read that the HD Writer software would join clips but I can't be sure. Hopefully I'll figure things out once I get the camera and try to edit the files. If I run into trouble and can't figure something out, I'll pick the brains of all you helpful forum users Redwing Roger

Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium, Intel Core i7-860 2.8GHz processor, 8Gb DDR3 SDRAM, nVidia GeForce GTS240 1024MB graphics card, 2nd internal HD - WD Black Caviar 2TB. PD 9 Ultra, Build 9.00.2330

FYI - I was doing some testing of seeing how PD9 handles joining the +4GB spit files for Redwing Roger and found a couple of things (note: using smart rendering with No Edits):
* Creating One File: At the point of the "join" PD9 drops out of SVRT and re-encodes the "join" then goes back to SVRT
* Playback the New File: Unfortuantly, there is an Audio Drop where the Join was in PD9 (Video looks OK to me)

I'm hoping the SVRT fixes are not too far around the corner but it lookes like if you want to join any +4GB clips, you will need to use HD Writer (note: I've never tried this) or just binary copy the files together (eg from a DOS cmd "copy/b In_1.m2ts + In_2.m2ts output.m2ts) PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

FYI - Another thing I found when using Smart Render on these clips is that if you don't manually modifiy the profile to support the higher bit rate PD9 will tend to freeze part way through (always at the same spot). I "presume" that while some clips with be analised as OK for Smart Rendering it hangs if/when it gets to a bit rate in the clip that is above the spec.

If that all makes sence! Anyway - just edit the Profile.ini to bump up your bit rates! PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Quote:
I'm hoping the SVRT fixes are not too far around the corner but it lookes like if you want to join any +4GB clips, you will need to use HD Writer (note: I've never tried this) or just binary copy the files together (eg from a DOS cmd "copy/b In_1.m2ts + In_2.m2ts output.m2ts)

Out of interest I used HDWriter to join the clips but it just reproduced the same file structure in a new folder ie the clips are in 4 GB chunks but HDWriter reads them as a single clip (due to its own " .cont" file info). I suspect this is so when you use the application to write back to the TM700 they are still in the correct format.

So the only way to join them is with another application. tsMuxeR is free and quickly joins them (no re-encoding) without any glitches in my testing. Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.

Quote: Out of interest I used HDWriter to join the clips but it just reproduced the same file structure in a new folder ie the clips are in 4 GB chunks but HDWriter reads them as a single clip (due to its own " .cont" file info). I suspect this is so when you use the application to write back to the TM700 they are still in the correct format.

So the only way to join them is with another application. tsMuxeR is free and quickly joins them (no re-encoding) without any glitches in my testing.

Thanks for testing and it does not surpirse me it keeps them split (it's a good solution for seemless playback from FAT32 file systems). Anyway, tsMuxer is great for lots of things...but the simple DOS cmd "copy/b In_1.m2ts + In_2.m2ts output.m2ts" works perfectly without the need for an app at all. PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

I could not help myself and just installed an ATI HD5770 so I could try GPU encoding! - Updated results are as follows on my test clip:
FYI - had a bit of a play and here are my results (using Media Info):
* Original raw clip (65 secs long): 194MB / 23.4 Mbps / 50fps / High@L4.2 / CABAC with 4 Ref Frames
* SVRT (8 secs to create): 195MB / 23.6 Mbps / 50fps / High@L4.2 / CABAC with 4 Ref Frames
* CPU rendering (231 secs to create): 212MB / 25.6 Mbps / 50fps / High@L5.1 / CABAC with 2 Ref Frames
* GPU rendering (97 secs to create): 184MB / 22.1 Mbps / 25fps / Baseline@L4.1 / CABAC with 2 Ref Frames

The GPU options is halving the frames and the resultant file looks terrible. pjc3 what Card are you using and how to you enable both CPU/GPU encoding that you described earlier?

Thanks
Nathan

PD 64 Bit-Win10 64 Bit-32GB RAM-80TB HDD
Sony FX6 - 500Mbps 4k/50p AVC-I HLG
Canon XF400 - 150Mbps 4k/50p AVC
GoPro Hero6 Black
Pana HS700-28Mbps 1080/50p AVC (High@L4.2)
Canon HV20-HDV 25Mbps 16:9 1440x1080/25p MPEG

Nvidia 8600GT 1024MB. As I have said elsewhere, it seems Cyberlink were always more aligned to nvidia. CUDA was introduced well before ATI stream if I recall correctly. This is just my opinion. Panasonic SD9, Panasonic TM700, Panasonic SD600, GoPro HD Hero.