60fps video freeze when editing/playing in "movie" mode, after clip to clip transtition

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Solved by

Nov 17, 2010 15:20

Hello all

Wrist duly slapped yesterday for hijacking a thread, so here is my own. I have also spent a little
more time digging around and may have narrowed this down a little more which hopefully helps.

System info:
Dell Inspiron 530
Intel Q6600 quad 2.40Ghz
4MB ram
ATI Radeon HD 3400 (Driver 8.782 28/09/2010)
Vista Home Prem SP2
SATA 7200 spindles for system and video

PD8 version 8.00.3022
Video detail:-

H.264 AVC
Bit rate: 6.03Mbps
Res: 848x480
Frame rate: 59.94
Aspect ratio: 16:9

This was shot on a Contour HD 1080p camera.

I have tried the following:-

Updated PD8 (was 2011 from memory before)
Downloaded/installed latest FFDshow (default setting)
PD8 Shadow file on & off
Anti virus excludes video and PDS folders
Hi/normal/lo quality on preview

None of the above seems to have any influence on the problem. The video will freeze when
transitioning from 1 clip to the next when playing in "movie" mode. The audio will continue okay.
This could even be the same video file that I have just multi trimmed on the time line to remove
unwanted footage

This may be a 60 fps related issue as other 24 or 25 fps footage that I have can not be made to
replicate this issue so far.

What I have found that does make a difference and this is where it may help others.

1, changing the preview to "Non Real time preview".

This will then enable a the video to transition from clip to clip okay.

2, double clicking the clips and then okay in the "trim" window.

This forces PD8 to update the time line for that clip. If I then do the same for every subsequent
clip it seems to work okay. If I do not do all of the clips then the video will stop at the clip I
have not double clicked on and then clicked okay. The problem with this solution is I suspect that
when I add any fades or effects etc the problem will return and I will need to update the time
line on every clip. So far all I have done is trim the rubbish from the numerous clips and add the
consecutively to the time line. I have no fixes or enhancements set on any of the clips.

I had thought earlier that this was due to my video card being a little lacking so I had ordered a
new ATI 5670. This is due later this week. However, based on this updating the time line seeming
to fix the issue I can not see that a new video card will solve the issue. This is still to be
delivered.

I can play any of the footage that the Contour has taken on my PC okay. Despite these issues I
have produced and cut a DVD on the older version of PD8 and it worked fine. I have not tried with
this current version.

I am open to any further pointers or suggestions.

Thanks and I hope this helps to shed light on the issue.

Mark

Filename	Mark N DxDiag.txt	Download
Description	DX Diag File from Mark N
Filesize	38 Kbytes
Downloaded:	383 time(s)

Dafydd B

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline

Nov 18, 2010 09:09

Mark,
Please upload a sample clip and attach to your reply - unedited and from your camera.

I'm concerned with the info
H.264 AVC
Bit rate: 6.03Mbps
Res: 848x480
Frame rate: 59.94
Aspect ratio: 16:9

the resolution is unusual and may be the cause of the issue for the program.

When members have access to the sample they'll be able to test and check.

Please state the full product name of the camera involved.

Thanks

Dafydd

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 22, 2010 07:18

Thanks Dafydd [EDITED]

Sorry for the delay, I was doing some Pudsey stuff. A great time but where did the weekend go?

The camera is a Contour 1080P. This is a head cam type ideal for shooting action stuff in a non camera friendly environment.

Manufactures web site is here: http://contour.com/camera/contour_hd

I have footage from this camera and and old Sony lipstick camera that shows the symptoms. 60fps seems to be the key factor between them as the lipstick camera is standard def and not HD. I am not sure why, as it is old footage, but I had taken the Sony 25fps footage and used "Super" to make it 60fps.

I will get some Contour footage uploaded later for review.

Cheers

Mark

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 22. 2010 10:24

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 22, 2010 16:49

Can some on e please confirm or PM me the FTP details. I have tried based on what I can see in the instructions and the user/password will not log me in.

Not sure the forum is the place to post the video file due to size.

Thanks

Mark

Dafydd B

Senior Contributor Joined: Aug 26, 2006 08:20 Messages: 11973 Offline

Nov 23, 2010 07:50

Hi Mark,
I no longer make the FTP site available - no need in truth as video samples (of 5 to 10 seconds) can be attached to a reply.

Adrian (keen on underwater camera use) and I have looked at the camera. It only offers 1080p 30fps at 12mbps but even that is worth a go. The underwater case is very useful, I'd use that - my camera got some salt spray the last time.

thanks for the camera info.

Dafydd

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 26, 2010 05:08

Hi Dafydd

Thanks for that. Sorry it has taken a while but I have been away with work. I have just shot a 5 second sample and it is attached. If I copy and past it to the time line I can replicate the fault, video freezes but audio continues. As before if I then double click each clip so as to open the trim window and just click okay on each clip it works fine in the 'movie' mode.

The camera was selected as it was ideal for capturing mountain biking footage. I shoot in 60fps on the hope that the slow motion of my self or others falling off will be better than if shot at 30fps. The camera has been out in some fairly non camera environments, wet and muddy trails etc and has held up well. The waterproof case I hear does work very well but I do not have one. They have a forum so if Adrian wants any user feedback he can post up and get actual user comments. My only dislike is the audio, not very good in a windy environment.

The link for the Contour community is http://support.contour.com/contour

I do not have any HD kit yet to view this on so only shoot in what Contour calls 'fast SD WVGA'

Thanks

Mark

Filename	MarkNFILE0008.MOV	Download
Description
Filesize	4092 Kbytes
Downloaded:	486 time(s)

Cranston

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Aug 17, 2007 02:26 Messages: 1667 Offline

Nov 26, 2010 07:59

Hi Mark,

I downloaded your clip to my computer, who’s specs are very close to yours.
You wrote:

The video will freeze when transitioning from 1 clip to the next when playing in "movie" mode.

I can not confirm the freezing in Movie Mode.
I placed your clip in my timeline twice and applied a fade transition between the two. I did not experience any freezing, or even a sputter before, during, or after the transition.
Then I applied slow motion to the second clip. Still no freeze.
Then I split each clip and added 2 more transitions, and playback of the whole lot in Movie Mode was fine.

I know this doesn’t help solve “your” issue, but it does indicate that the clip itself seems OK, and that the 60fps doesn’t seem to an issue on a similarly spec’d rig.
(Note: I'm using PD9 now, but I don't think should make any difference. Though someone will chime in if it does)
(BTW: I'm in XP Pro / SP3)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 26. 2010 08:00

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Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 26, 2010 15:37

Okay thanks for checking.

I have also downloaded and installed the latest version PD8 (8.00 3022) from Cyberlink. This was just in case the patch upgrade had not taken properly. No change I am afraid.

I have shot some footage of what it does for me. As you will see it "seems to work okay" after the clip has been edited. most weird. The sample is grainy as I have kept the file size small.

Filename	Mark N Sample.wmv	Download
Description
Filesize	2599 Kbytes
Downloaded:	450 time(s)

7Phil77

Senior Member Joined: May 27, 2009 02:54 Messages: 195 Offline

Nov 27, 2010 21:00

Cranston,

I saw on another thread somewhere that PD9 made ALL the difference and got rid of this freezing at transitions in Preview. I will link here if I get the time to search for it and find it.

I too was using 60fps HD and had the exact same problem of freezing at transitions in the preview window. I resorted to only recording at 30fps. Not quite the result I was aiming for but at least I can edit properly now. Phil
Tell the truth - but gently.

PD14 Ultra
i5-6600K OC CPU, Asus Z170-P Motherboard, 4G Asus GeForce GTX 960, 240GB SSD, 1 x 1TB Seagate HDD, 1x 1TB SSD external backup HDD, 8GB RAM

Cranston

Senior Contributor Location: USA Joined: Aug 17, 2007 02:26 Messages: 1667 Offline

Nov 27, 2010 23:12

Hi Phil,

I can’t really comment on if there is indeed any improvements in PD9 being able to better deal with 60fps full HD raw footage, with transitions applied . I was just relating my results using my PD9, with Mark’s sample clip supplied above.
MediaInfo reports Mark’s sample clip as…
MPEG-4 / 59.94fps / with a resolution of 848x480, which is not exactly a full 1080 .mts HD file.

Marks sample clip work fine on my rig.
However, 60fps / .mts / Full HD 1080i/p clips, do stutter and freeze on my rig, in both PD8 and PD9.
Click here PDtoots for a collection of PowerDirector Tutorials and Tips

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 29, 2010 09:17

Thanks for the comments.

Can I just check what the feedback here is please.

This works in PD9 based on what Cranston has come back with, so is the advise to upgrade to PD9?

The format off the camera is the lowest available. It calls it 'Action SD' and not HD. Is this in fact not the case and the file being produced is HD? I thought HD was 720 or 1080

While I know the PC is not state of the art it is not that bad a spec I thought so should be able to cope with the task. On checking CPU performance the Q6600 is comparable to the I3 530 based on what I see at AnandTech benchmarks. I can confirm that investing on a better graphics card has not helped. I still see the same problem even with both GPU options ticked.

Is there any explanation as to why it appears to work better when I double click each clip in the time line and then does not work for any clips not double clicked.

If I need to make some changes then I want to be sure I am investing in the correct area.

What sort of spec is your system Phil? It looks like 30fps at HD now works okay for you, is that still on PD8?

Thanks again

Mark

7Phil77

Senior Member Joined: May 27, 2009 02:54 Messages: 195 Offline

Nov 29, 2010 16:41

Mark N, My system spec is in my signature above and below plus Vista Home Premium 32 bit..

My camera is a Sanyo Xacti FH1.

Still on PD8 for now.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Nov 29. 2010 16:45

Phil
Tell the truth - but gently.

PD14 Ultra
i5-6600K OC CPU, Asus Z170-P Motherboard, 4G Asus GeForce GTX 960, 240GB SSD, 1 x 1TB Seagate HDD, 1x 1TB SSD external backup HDD, 8GB RAM

7Phil77

Senior Member Joined: May 27, 2009 02:54 Messages: 195 Offline

Nov 29, 2010 16:51

This is the thread I was referring to where upgrading to PD9
fixed the freezing at transitions problem -

http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/15/14025.page

see the post at 23:20:08 by GZ1967. Phil
Tell the truth - but gently.

PD14 Ultra
i5-6600K OC CPU, Asus Z170-P Motherboard, 4G Asus GeForce GTX 960, 240GB SSD, 1 x 1TB Seagate HDD, 1x 1TB SSD external backup HDD, 8GB RAM

craig123

Newbie Joined: Jun 23, 2010 17:14 Messages: 16 Offline

Nov 29, 2010 19:50

Mark,

Sometimes the Stabilizer will have this problem when added with a fade transition on a very select/few of my clips. When I undo the stabilizer, the transition to the next clip is smooth (in Movie view). As you stated, when playing clip to clip it seems fine.

HP p6620f
Win7
PD8
AMD Phenom IIx4 820 2.80GHz
ATI Radeon HD 4200
6.00 GB
64-bit

c

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 29. 2010 19:58

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 30, 2010 06:07

Thanks for the link Phil.

I had not spotted you system info. The fact that both you and I are having similar issues at 60fps seems to suggest that 32bit PD8 does not mix well. I used Super to reduce some of my footage down to 25fps and have yet to see if the problem persists. The expectation is that it will not. As with you it will get me up and running but not really how I wanted to do it.

If I get the time I may have a play with the PD9 demo version and see how that compares.

Thanks for the input Craig. I have put the stabiliser on and as you say the problem becomes even worse. The trouble is that I need to add the stabiliser as all my footage is from when I am on the mountain bike. So it is shaky due to the terrain I am riding over. Having the stabiliser was one of the things that swayed me to PD8.

A 64 bit PC would be nice but the bills and stuff need to be sorted first so I guess I will need to wait a bit unless Santa is kind to me.

Mark

7Phil77

Senior Member Joined: May 27, 2009 02:54 Messages: 195 Offline

Nov 30, 2010 07:11

Mark,

Perhaps Cyberlink might do some comparison tests re 32/64 bit systems and let us know what they find.
After all we are not experts and we just read the advertising splurge. As far as I can tell all the advertising says is that it does all this and all that and is the most whizz-bang software you could ever want.

Then there is Mr GZ 1967. What setup (64 or 32) did he have?
Phil
Tell the truth - but gently.

PD14 Ultra
i5-6600K OC CPU, Asus Z170-P Motherboard, 4G Asus GeForce GTX 960, 240GB SSD, 1 x 1TB Seagate HDD, 1x 1TB SSD external backup HDD, 8GB RAM

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Nov 30, 2010 19:04

I am down loading PD9 as I type.. I had a quick look at the PD9 forum. It looks like all the top names are flat out with questions and issues so I guess we will not see them here.

Pd8 can not coexist with PD9 so you will need to back up any PD8 projects

PD9 looks to be full of bugs an features, bleeding edge software.

I think I will wait until it settles down before I load PD9.

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Feb 08, 2011 12:57

Okay time for an update if any one gets to read this link. Sorry for the delay but work is really getting in the way of late!

I have taken the plunge and gone to PD9 Ultra. I can confirm that this seems to have resolved my issues. It is early days but so far I have been able to do some work with 60 FPS footage and I have not seen the problems I was seeing before. Despite no changes to my hardware configuration or OS, I am still running 32 bit Vista, I have found PD9 to be a lot more responsive as well. Hopefully I can do some more with this over the next few weeks etc and report back.

I have to say though that it was a little disappointing to have bought PD8 and then have to buy PD9 to get it to work with my setup.

7Phil77

Senior Member Joined: May 27, 2009 02:54 Messages: 195 Offline

Feb 24, 2011 07:02

Quote: I am down loading PD9 as I type.. I had a quick look at the PD9 forum. It looks like all the top names are flat out with questions and issues so I guess we will not see them here.

Pd8 can not coexist with PD9 so you will need to back up any PD8 projects

PD9 looks to be full of bugs an features, bleeding edge software.

I think I will wait until it settles down before I load PD9.

"Pd8 can not coexist with PD9 so you will need to back up any PD8 projects"

Can you please give me a bit more of an explanation on the above selection? Just
in case I find enough money to upgrade to PD9. They hammer us here in Australia for some reason.

Thanks. Phil
Tell the truth - but gently.

PD14 Ultra
i5-6600K OC CPU, Asus Z170-P Motherboard, 4G Asus GeForce GTX 960, 240GB SSD, 1 x 1TB Seagate HDD, 1x 1TB SSD external backup HDD, 8GB RAM

Mark N

Newbie Location: Lanark, Scotland Joined: Apr 29, 2010 18:19 Messages: 13 Offline

Feb 24, 2011 09:47

Hi Phil,

Did I write that?

Must have done. Anyway you can only have PD9 or PD8. They can not both coexist on the same machine as an application. That is the bad news. The good news is, based on my experience, I have not had any issues with some of the 'simple works in progress' that I had on the go. The .pds files that I had finished or was in mid stream on with PD8 worked fine with the new PD9. I always make a copy of stuff I have invested many hours in but this investment was not lost as PD9 just read the PD8 file.

As far as issues go, touch wood, I have not had any but I am running a 32bit OS so the PD9 will be 32bit. In my set up it does seem to be an improvement on the older PD8.