GIF files from PD18 project will not play in 365-PD21

morgus49

Newbie Joined: Feb 06, 2021 13:04 Messages: 6 Offline

Solved by

Jan 28, 2023 16:04

BACKGROUND: Prior to August 2022 I used standalone versions of PD for the past 10 years. In August I upgraded to 365-PD20 and now have 365-PD21.

SPECIFICATIONS: My computer is an HP Omen 30L, 32GB memory, Intel Core i9 CPU @ 3.70GHz, 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor, Windows 11 Home V.22H2, Nvidia 3080 GPU.

In June 2022 I created two (2) PD18 projects that contained JPG and GIF files. The MP4 files I Produced and discs I burnt played all files fine.

Recently I opened one of those PD18 projects in 365-PD21 and noticed that the GIF files either would not run or ran for a couple seconds then stopped in the Timeline. The GIFs that would not run appeared as black images in the Library. The GIFs that ran for a couple seconds in the Timeline then stopped appeared normal in the Library.

When I created a disc from those PD21 projects some GIFs appeared as blank images and other GIFs ran for a couple seconds then stopped. The second PD18 project had the same problems in PD21.

I then opened the original pds files in PD18 and all GIFs played fine in both projects.

Thinking the GIFs were incompatible with PD21, I imported the original GIF files into a new PD21 project. All GIF files ran fine.

Did I make a mistake upgrading to 365-PD20/21? Is there something in PD21 Preferences I am missing?

- Mike in RO, MI

optodata

Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline

Jan 29, 2023 18:16

Could you please share one of the problematic GIFs here? (Only do that if you're comfortable sharing the content on a public forum)

Use the Attachments button below the forum's text box to directly upload it here for other people to test

morgus49

Newbie Joined: Feb 06, 2021 13:04 Messages: 6 Offline

Jan 30, 2023 08:34

Quote Could you please share one of the problematic GIFs here? (Only do that if you're comfortable sharing the content on a public forum)

Use the Attachments button below the forum's text box to directly upload it here for other people to test

Thanks for responding. First, I copied the GIFs from online sources. If they are copyrighted I am am not comfortable posting them. All the GIF files display and run properly in PD18 and Create Discs and Produce fine. When that same pds file is opened in PD21 almost none of GIF files (approx. 100) display, run, Create Discs, or Produce properly in PD21. When those same GIFs are imported directly into a new pds in PD21 all files run fine - so the problem isn't the GIFs.

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 30, 2023 11:51

Quote Thanks for responding. First, I copied the GIFs from online sources. If they are copyrighted I am am not comfortable posting them. All the GIF files display and run properly in PD18 and Create Discs and Produce fine. When that same pds file is opened in PD21 almost none of GIF files (approx. 100) display, run, Create Discs, or Produce properly in PD21. When those same GIFs are imported directly into a new pds in PD21 all files run fine - so the problem isn't the GIFs.

The black video is usually a sign of graphics issues and might not be related to the gifs directly, are you using the iGPU in PD or your RTX3080?

To try and replicate your display and produce issue, I grabbed several Video-based gifs, Animation-based gifs and also the two types of gif files, the GIF87a and the newer improved GIF89a. I've tried several permutations of these by creating a project in PD18 and then opening the project in PD21 and each time the gif displays in the timeline ok and produces ok. I also tried several random gifs from giphy.com like https://giphy.com/gifs/impressed-bfd-h2MLtoOjxtkGY and couldn’t replicate your issue either.

Another possibility is the use of any form of proxy files generated from PD18, are you using them? If so, you might delete these files and see if the timeline and produce issue repeats. The Media Library issue would more than likely be graphic driver anomalies with PD so which GPU you are using and which drivers could be important as well as decode options set in PD pref > Hardware Acceleration.

Jeff

optodata

Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline

Jan 30, 2023 14:03

Quote Thanks for responding. First, I copied the GIFs from online sources. If they are copyrighted I am am not comfortable posting them.

That's understandable, so why not share the links so forum members can download them directly? Especially since JL_JL wasn't able to reproduce the issue, it's possible that there's something about these specific GIFs that PD has trouble with.

morgus49

Newbie Joined: Feb 06, 2021 13:04 Messages: 6 Offline

Jan 31, 2023 16:15

Quote

That's understandable, so why not share the links so forum members can download them directly? Especially since JL_JL wasn't able to reproduce the issue, it's possible that there's something about these specific GIFs that PD has trouble with.

I did some research on GIFs that play for a while then stop. I selected the GIF described in the Attachment.

I first imported the GIF into a new, blank PD18 project with a Timeline Frame Rate of 60 FPS. I looked at the GIFs Properties in the Library and in the Timeline. The data for both are identical. The Original Duration and the Duration in Timeline was 00:00:04:48. The Frame Rate in both was 10.00 FPS. The entire GIF runs fine in PD18.

I then imported the GIF into a new, blank PD21 project with a Timeline Frame Rate of 60 FPS. I looked at the GIFs Properties in the Library and in the Timeline. The data was different from PD18's. The Original Duration in the Library and Timeline was 00:00:01:55 (not 4:4 and the Duration in Timeline was still 00:00:04:48. The Frame Rate in both was 25.00 FPS. The GIF ran fine for 01:55 then the image froze as it ran to 04:48.

I did some math comparing the PD18 and PD21 data.
FRAME RATIO: 01:55 at 60 FPS is 115 frames. 04:48 at 60 FPS is 288 frames. 288 / 115 = 2.5.
FRAME RATE: (PD21 frame rate) / (PD18 frame rate) = 25 FPS / 10 FPS = 2.5.

That means the increased Frame Rate of 25 FPS in PD21 is causing the GIF to play only 115 of the original 288 frames then stop.

So, the key question is:
Why does PD21 import the GIF at a Frame Rate of 25 FPS when PD18 imports the very same GIF at a Frame Rate of 10 FPS - when both have a Timeline Frame Rate of 60 FPS???

Filename	mwOKVeW_GIF-test_v2.pdf	Download
Description	PD18 vs. PD21 GIF Import Differences
Filesize	298 Kbytes
Downloaded:	192 time(s)

optodata

Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline

Jan 31, 2023 16:49

Thanks for all the details showing the problem. For anyone who wants to downlad the problematic GIF, it's available to download from this page. Right-click on the image and choose Save As.

This is clearly a bug in PD365/21 and you should report it directly to CL tech support here.

Please include a link to this forum discussion so they can see everything that's happened so far, although it may take 2 or 3 rounds of questions and boilerplate suggestions to get to the point where someone will actually read the posts here

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 31. 2023 16:50

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 31, 2023 18:55

gif's don't really have a framerate. They simply have frames and a delay between frames. This delay can be constant or customizable for each frame. So the best one can do is calculate an average fps knowing the gif has xx frames and xx total duration from the frame delay. From what I see this gif has 48 frames, all frames have a 40ms delay between them, so it is 48*.04=1.92 sec long with an average calculated frame rate of 48/1.92=25fps. So, PD21 stats are valid as you have a timeline set at 60fps and a duration of 00:00:01:55 which is 1.916666sec. They best one can mimic this gif in a 60fps timeline.

For me this gif is not black in the timeline, nor in the Media Library and produces fine.

Jeff

optodata

Senior Contributor Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8630 Offline

Jan 31, 2023 21:26

Ha I was solely focused on the duration part and forgot to say that I had no problems working with the GIF in PD365 either!

I've attached the produced version as an MP4, and it has a duration of 1.9s

Filename	GIF.mp4	Download
Description	MP4 version
Filesize	1320 Kbytes
Downloaded:	147 time(s)

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Jan 31, 2023 21:58

Quote Ha I was solely focused on the duration part and forgot to say that I had no problems working with the GIF in PD365 either!

I've attached the produced version as an MP4, and it has a duration of 1.9s

It's the 1.9s as you produced at 30fps. If you'd have done it at the gif avg fps of 25 or a multiple thereof, it would be the proper 1.92s of the native gif. gifs are time only based vs video which is frame based.

I guess I'm not seeing this clearly a bug as was stated. The bug I guess would be PD18 misread the gif total duration, but CL wouldn't back correct PD18 anyhow.

Jeff

morgus49

Newbie Joined: Feb 06, 2021 13:04 Messages: 6 Offline

Feb 01, 2023 10:47

Quote gif's don't really have a framerate. They simply have frames and a delay between frames. This delay can be constant or customizable for each frame. So the best one can do is calculate an average fps knowing the gif has xx frames and xx total duration from the frame delay. From what I see this gif has 48 frames, all frames have a 40ms delay between them, so it is 48*.04=1.92 sec long with an average calculated frame rate of 48/1.92=25fps. So, PD21 stats are valid as you have a timeline set at 60fps and a duration of 00:00:01:55 which is 1.916666sec. They best one can mimic this gif in a 60fps timeline.

For me this gif is not black in the timeline, nor in the Media Library and produces fine.

Jeff

Here info on a different GIF that appears black everywhere in PD21, but is fine in PD18. GIF source: “Rainbow”, U5SK.gif, https://gifer.com/en/U5SK .

PD18: The GIF file appears OK and runs fine for 00:00:09:59 at 10 fps.

PD21: The GIF file image does not appear in Library, Preview, or Timeline. The Duration is 00:00 and Frame Rate is 1.#J fps.

See attachment.

Filename	U5SK_GIF-test.pdf	Download
Description	Details on black GIF
Filesize	364 Kbytes
Downloaded:	285 time(s)

JL_JL

Senior Contributor Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 6091 Offline

Feb 01, 2023 11:19

Quote Here info on a different GIF that appears black everywhere in PD21, but is fine in PD18. GIF source: “Rainbow”, U5SK.gif, https://gifer.com/en/U5SK .

PD18: The GIF file appears OK and runs fine for 00:00:09:59 at 10 fps.

PD21: The GIF file image does not appear in Library, Preview, or Timeline. The Duration is 00:00 and Frame Rate is 1.#J fps.

See attachment.

Yep, I can easily see that gif having issues as it appears it has some bad information in it. The gif has 100 frames but a duration of 0ms between frames. Hence PD21 reporting some bad stuff as you show as it appears the gif may have issues. If one recreates the 100 frames of the gif and puts a 100ms delay between frames (Modified.gif), things are fine display wise in PD21 as shown in pic.

Just a guess, it might be PD18 had some default delay applied internally when things like this occurred which PD21 does not as ironically both these example gifs you show had a delay applied that they both came out to 10fps in PD18. However, to me it appears that is not inherent in the native gif.

Feel free to report to CL as a bug as optodata suggested and see how it goes.

Jeff


Filename	PD21_GIF.png	Download
Description
Filesize	708 Kbytes
Downloaded:	6 time(s)

AVPlayVideo

Senior Contributor Location: Home Joined: Apr 06, 2016 19:03 Messages: 703 Offline

Feb 02, 2023 05:07

I had problem with “gif” file that repeated a few times in the timeline worked ok, after producing the video only the first “gif” had animation.
My solution was to create an “mp4” video with the 5 “gif” sequence using a green background, then replace it on the timeline and apply Chroma Key on the green background, in my case it worked.
Assuming this, I renamed his “gif” to “mp4” resolved, but the quality was even worse than the downloaded “gif”. XEON-E5-2680 v4 / Mem. 16GB DDR4
M.2 NVME 512Gb / 2-SSD Sata3 1TB
AMD RX570 / Display Philips 272V8
Windows 11_64Pro / PD22/365

morgus49

Newbie Joined: Feb 06, 2021 13:04 Messages: 6 Offline

Feb 02, 2023 11:26

Quote

Yep, I can easily see that gif having issues as it appears it has some bad information in it. The gif has 100 frames but a duration of 0ms between frames. Hence PD21 reporting some bad stuff as you show as it appears the gif may have issues. If one recreates the 100 frames of the gif and puts a 100ms delay between frames (Modified.gif), things are fine display wise in PD21 as shown in pic.

Just a guess, it might be PD18 had some default delay applied internally when things like this occurred which PD21 does not as ironically both these example gifs you show had a delay applied that they both came out to 10fps in PD18. However, to me it appears that is not inherent in the native gif.

Feel free to report to CL as a bug as optodata suggested and see how it goes.

Jeff

Thanks for your interest. I reported both the issues to CyberLink Support. Ticket ID: CS002607113 was assigned. No response as yet.