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Maybe I can save a little bandwidth by replying to both of your notes in this one.
Hal first, because I'm totally confused about how to import a pds file into the time line. I tried, and of course the whole project comes up. So obviously I haven't understood what you suggested. I also tried playing a pds file in WMP and in Easy Media Player. Not surprisingly, neither of them would recognize the pds. So - exactly - how do you import a rendered project into either the time line or another software media player?Is it the pds file you import, or something else? Do you import via "import media files" or some other choice? Of course I know how to play the rendered project in the previewer on the Create Disc page. I do that all the time. But the Create Disc previewer does not indicate the amount of noise I'll see in the final burned version of a DVD format. It works fine for AVCHD, but as you know, it's not accurate for DVD.
Tony - I did as I said I would, and put the offending clip into the time line with *not edits at all* and one clip before it, one clip behind it. I got the same green screen as before. This time, for the first time, I could see a green band just before the offending clip would begin. I thought "AHA!" I'll just remove this green band, and the problem will be solved. No such luck. With the green band removed, no green visible even with the time line spread out, I still got the green screen. Removed the whole offending clip - and as before, the rest of the little video played normally. It will have to remain a mystery.
Back to Hal - Someone along the way asked if my source files were all MTS. I know that people interpolate jpgs, and maybe other things, into "slide shows" made using the video module - so in my case, yes, all the source files were MTS. No jpgs or other graphics. In the time line, however, there are often rendered MPEG-2 files, becuase I'm opening a prject I've worked on earlier, and I've rendered those files (and usually found that there was way too much noise, so I have to go back....). Again - before I've begun any work on the videos I'm talking about, all files are MTS. When I'm re-editing a project, files in the time line have sometimes been edited and then rendered as MPEG-2s.
Hal again - I have to quote your last few paragraphs, because you've gone around a couple of curves I can't understand. You wrote: [i]"One thing to note is that after you produce/render the project in the produce module, the newly created file is only added to the library." [/i].....Which newly created file? At first I thought it could be the pds file, but I think that is not added to the library. At least, I've never seen a pds file in the library, or in the time line.
Next you write "PD does not use this new file in the create disc module, unless you specifically empty the time line(s) and add this file to the time line..... Understood.
FInally "Many of use create a new project specifically for disc creation." .... I guess all of my projects eventually wind up for disc creation, though I've taken to burning them back to the computer's HD first, because I'm still learning the limitations of the Create Disc previewer.
And "Importing the produced files that were created during the editing stage and adding these files to the time line.. " .... Again, I'm sure I'm missing something important. Was there more to that sentence which didn't come through to the forum? Once rendering (producing) is complete, aren't the files in the time line always those which were produced? Are there some different files somewhere which I should be importing into the time line?
Finally, to both Tony and Hal, and anyone else who has had the patience to read through this long note - never apologize for asking my questions, or for asking for more information, or for noting numerical or technical things. I worked in a very technical part of the health care industry for over 40 years, so I'm used to all of that, and I don't mind it at all.
Bill Hansen
Importing the produced files that were created during the editing stage and adding these files to the time line
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Hi Tony -
RE: Step 5 - viewing the produced video - I didn't view the produced video (before burning) in any viewer other than the Create Disc page of PD10. I don't know how to view with other software viewers until the video has been burned - so that might be something I could learn from you and others on the forum.
RE: Step 6 - Yes, there are only pre-produced MTS files in the time line. If I view using the little previewer on the Edit page (now that one is REALLY low res!) I never see the green screen. Once files are produced, I view in the previewer on the Create Disc screen. Again, there is no green screen. (And for what it's worth, if I produce a video, do it over and re-produce it so these are pre-produced video files there's still no green screen in the Create Disc previewer.)
You are correct, there was no green screen in the produced video, when wiewed with the Create Disc previewer, but there was once the file was burned to the computer's HD.
I'll go back and put the offending file into a time line, with 1 or 2 files before it and 1 or 2 following it, all of them with no changes at all - and see if the green screen shows up in that situation. It will take me a day or two to get that done. My video time and attention span have been all used up, for now!
Thanks again - Bill
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Hello Tony -
I guess I'm just not expressing myself adequately today. Trying a third time, step by step -
(1) files shot in Canon Vixia HG20 camcorder at 60i, which (I think) for that camera is 17 mbps
(2) files copied to computer's HD, saved in a folder on the C drive - folder labelled "Ronin Shouthlake". No other material in that file
(3) files imported from computer's HD into PD10 using PD's "import folder" option
(4) files lightly edited for sharpness and noise reduction, no other edits
(5) files (all of them are .MTS files) "produced" in PD 10 using MEPG-2 format, default profile, DVD HQ
(6) the produced video brought to PD 10's Create Disc page,
(7) the produced video is viewed in the preview viewer of the Create Disc page. The green screen does not show up here.
(8) The video is then burned to the "Ronin Southlake" folder on the HD using 2D disc DVD and "HQ-Best Quality"
(7) The resulting video played from the "Ronin Southlake" folder on the computer HD (click on "My Video" and then on "VTS_01_1_VOB"). This is where the green screen shows up.
As I wrote in the first post to this thread, I updated the video drivers but still got the green screen.
Then, having noted the second at which the green screen began and the second it cleared and video resumed, I went back to the Edit page of PD10 and removed the clip which seemed to cause the green screen. Re-edited, re-produced, re-burned back to the computer's HD - and now the green screen is gone and the remaining video plays normally.
But the questions remain - (1)is there any way to detect a clip which will cause green screen, before producing and burning the produced video either to the computer's HD or to a DVD disc? And (2) can that damaged clip be repaired somehow, so it's useable?
I suspect that there's no way to detect a damaged clip before burning to the computer's HD or to disc - and that there's no way to repair the offending clip. But I know that as a newcomer who is just learning I need to ask about these things becuase I'd be very likely to overlook a better way of handing things than removing clips which cause green screens.
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Carl - Thanks for your reply. I thought I had made it clear that I did exactly what you recommend, but got the "green screen". I guess I wasn't clear enough. Here's a quote from that original note, just in case I've missed something major. Underlining and the words in brackets have been added:
"The video played normally in the Create Disc preview screen but when I burned it back to the computer's HD [that is, after I produced in MEPG-2 and did a Create Disc back to the computer's HD] and played the finished video, the green screen showed up. .... All source files were .MTS (no still images), rendered to MEPG-2 at DVD HQ "
I've begun to burn back to the HD routinely, before burning to an actual DVD disc, because that way I waste fewer DVD discs. Maybe the confusion came about because I wrote that I "rendered" to MEPG-2, while the PD term for that is "produced". I guess I've never done a Create Disc ('burned"), either to the computer's HD or to DVD disc, without "producing" first.
I still have those questions - is there a way to detect a clip which is going to cause "green screen", before the actual burning process? This problem has arisen with three short videos I've done this week, and each time the vid played perfectly in the Create Disc preview, but had green screen once the video was burned to the HD or to DVD disc.
And - is there any way to repair a clip which is causing green screen?
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I've had the "green screen" problem during playback of a video project I'm working on now.The video played normally in the Create Disc preview screen but when I burned it back to the computer's HD and played the finished video, the green screen showed up. I updated the video driver, but that didn't help. I removed the clip where the green screen began, and that solved the problem - or at least prevented it. I wish I hadn't had to remove that clip.
My questions are - is there a way to detect a clip which is going to cause green screen, before burning to disc? If the faulty clip is detected, is there a way to repair it?
All source files were .MTS (no still images), rendered to MEPG-2 at DVD HQ
Windows 76 Pro Ultra 64 bits
Intel i7 320 2.67 mHz
6 GB RAM
Nvidia Geforce 250 graphics driver with 1 GB vRAM, updated as of March 4 2012
990 GB free space on HD
all video clips, projects, and PD 10 are on the C drive
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Bubba -
Thanks for the link to that thread. I have been packing projects, and I think I must have overwritten the packed project that I lost.
The other thread also reminded me to keep all current projects on the C drive, a very helpful tip. I had planned to move all video folders to an external drive, but I'll only move those which I don't think I'll work on any time soon. When I want to use parts of those projects again, I'll save myself some trouble if I move them back to the C drive again. Good tips!!
Bill
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Barry -
Once the video was produced, I didn't move any of the files. The only explanation I can think of for why they would have disappeared is that I might have recorded over them when doing a subsequent video.
Unfortunately, I've had the habit of *moving* the original MTS files from the camcorder to the computer HD, rather than copying them - so the originals are gone from the camcorder too.
I keep two incremental backups of all image files, but they are done every night, so even the backups are gone.
It seemed strange that the backup pds file came into the time line and looked like all the clips were there, until I tried to view or play the content.
Looks like I'm out of luck. It's not a tragedy, but I hate to be so careless.
Bill
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I think I've permanently lost an edited video, but maybe someone here knows how to recover it.
Several days ago I completed a short video and made both AVCHD and DVD versions. Somehow the finished versions, along with the original mts files, have been deleted from the computer's HD. However, there's a .pds backup file from one of the last versions of the edited clip (I know it's a version of the missing video because the title is correct and when I import it into PD 10 all the clips appear in the time line - but they're all blank black spaces].
I thought I could open that backup lds file - but when I go to File/Open Project and choose the pds in question, I get the error message "an error occurred trying to open this file". The error message identifies the file is identified as an .MTS file. I get the choice to "Ignore all", which appears to bring up the edited clips in the time line of PD 10 I remember the number of clips and their approximate length, so I'm sure they once were a version of the lost video. But when I try to view or play any of the clips, all that's available is a blank screen with white dots at the edges, as if the clip were going to be cropped. If I click the preview playback arrow, the white dots go away but playback is only a blank black screen.
FWIW, other .pds files open and play normally.
None of the missing clips appear in the Win 7 Recycle bin. I think I've lost that video. Does anyone have some magic for me?
Bill Hansen - with a very embarrassed red face right now
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Thanks Carl - I'll check out the video driver. After I wrote to the forum here, I re-did the whole video with no edits at all, and it played normally. Maybe I over-edited it so much that the driver couldn't handle it.
abslayer - The video was produced in DVD HQ format before burning, but remember that I had made extensive editing changes to it. Maybe I was waaaaay over-enthusiastic about the editing. I think my expectations of what can be achieved with the DVD format are unrealistic.
Bill
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My latest project was a short (4 minutes) family video, which I put out in DVD format so I could share it with friends and distant family.
When I burn the final edited project to the computer's HD it plays well there, smoothly and without interruption, except for a 25 second period which is replaced by a solid green screen. I've repeated the burn a few times, always with the same results. It looks as if 3 or 4 of the very short clips have been replaced by solid green. On the computer's HD, play will continue without any prompting from me, after that 25 seconds.
When I burn the same video to a DVD disc, play sometimes halts after about 30 seconds, hangs up for several seconds, and then resumes. Play may be hesitant, jerky, and intermittent for a while after that. But once again the solid green screen replaces a few clips of video. Playback will hang up at that point, and the video will not play further. I've tried re-burning the video to four different DVD discs, always with the same results.
Other short video projects burned to DVD have not had these problems.
Discs are Sony DVDs.
Clips are fairly heavily edited, with changes in backlighting, brightness, saturation, modest increase in sharpness, and very heavy noise reduction. (Intrusive visible video noise remains even after heavy noise reduction - but that's not the problem I'm asking about here).
Computer statistics:
Windows 7 Pro 64 bits SP2
CPU of Intel Core i7 920 at 2.67 mHz
32 kb primary memory cache
8192 kb secondary memory cache
multi-core (4) hyper threaded (eight)
6 GB RAM, nVidia graphics card with 1 GB RAM
Nvidia Geforce 250 graphics with 1 GB V-RAM
C: drive has 695 GB of free space
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Tony - I just realized that I confused two "previews" - the one in the Edit page, and the one on the Create Disc page.
The one on the Edit page is very handy for evaluating color, brightness, saturation, and it gives hints about sharpness. It's not an indication of video noise.
The preview on the Create Disc page is the one I wish were more accurate. To my way of thinking, it should at least be close to what I see in the final burned version. It's "in the ballpark", but it's way out near the left field wall, not as good as it sould be.
I haven't seen others complain about this, so maybe I'm the only one making DVD discs in addition to H.264s. It's a puzzle.
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Tony -
Thanks very much for the info and the screen shot. For some reason, when I go to the PD 10 manual and bring up the Hotkeys page, all that appears on the right hand side is a big blank space.
The shortcuts for the pre-burn preview are quite helpful. I wish the Preview itself was as helpful. When it's previewing a DVD quality video, it drastically underestimates the amount of video noise which will appear on the DVD disc, once the disc is burned. In fact, DVD quality vids even look less noisy when burned to the computer's HD than they do on the final disc. I'm very gradually learning how to cope with it, but I'm disappointed that the process depends largely on guesswork. AVCHD's are not that way - they look good both in the preview and in the final burned result.
Bill
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Is there a keyboard shortcut which would let me bring up the Preview player (in Edit mode) full screen? That would sure save me a lot of keystrokes.
Reason for asking: I'm still very much in the stage of learning how to make my videos look their best - especially the DVD versions, which seem to be more difficult than the AVCHD ones. I find myself going back and forth between the time line and the Preview quite often. At this stage in my learning process, I still need to see the Preview at full screen size.
For that matter, is there a collection of keyboard shortcuts for PD 10? If there is, I've missed it when going through the manual/user's guide. A Google search didn't turn up anything helpful either. I'm hoping that such an animal exists, and that I just missed it.
Bill Hansen
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I'm new here and new to video editing, so others will give you better informed answers. While waiting for those, The following may help:
Once you've imported your content into PD, and you've edited it, you do need to "produce" (render) it before you can make a disc.
The format into which you produce/render it depends on how you want it to play. If your computer or video player is capable of playing AVCHD files, then you'll probably want to render into AVCHD or MEPG-4. If, like me, you want to share video with people who don't have powerful computers or video players, then you'll probably want to render into MPEG-2. If using MPEG-2,try PD's default of DVDHQ, and if you're in the US, stay with NTSC. In other words, don't change things at first.
Go ahead and render your video. If it's very long, go have a cup of coffee, lunch, or even let the computer render while you sleep.
Don't worry about SVRT one way or the other. It's a way of rendering which can save time under some circumstances. Turn it off if it seems confusing.
When rendering is complete, click on Create disc at the top of the screen. When that screen comes up, and if you want a DVD which can be shared with folks who don't have high powered equipment, be sure to click on "2D disc" up at the top, and then make sure "DVD" is lit up in light blue (top left of the dialog box). Choose "Best Quality".
If you're aiming for the best looking video and have the capability to play AVCHD, then of course be sure "AVCHD" is lit up in blue at the top of the screen before burning.
Finally, while experimenting like this, consider saving your results back to your HD in a place where you can find them easily. It saves a ton of DVD discs. Also, others will tell you to "Pack" your project all in one place, and I agree with that. After saving your rendered result, and maybe having burned your DVD back to the HD, click "File" in PD, go to Export, and choose "Pack project".
AVCHD video can be recorded onto DVDs, and it palys beautifully, but a DVD won't hold much more than 30 minutes of AVCHD quality. If you want to have a longer video, you'll either have to record on a double sided DVD, or use a Blue Disc and BD player.
That shoud get you started until more knowledgeable people chime in.
Bill Hansen
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Sorry for the above "Reply", which went out twice, long before I intended it to go out. I also apoligize for taking the thread off track. I thought that the OP asked for comments on his video, and that my thought that shots taken while the bike was standing still was such a comment.
Bill Hansen
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"This message is getting way off track folks"
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I enjoyed this one a lot and was impressed with the HD quality of it. As others have said, great work. One thing which may be a little different with me - I would have enjoyed seeing some views of the fall color with the cycle stopped - stills, perhaps a few slow zooms and/or pans.
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In the unlikely case that anyone is still watching this thread - I've got a solution which works for me when producing and burning DVD videos, as opposed to AVCHD videos.. It might not work for everyone, but it results in DVD quality which is "okay", and sometimes better than okay.
Here's the workflow:
Because I want to make AVCHD quality videos for my own use, I shoot at 1920X1080 60i and with all sharpening turned OFF in the camera. Turning off in=camera sharpening is important, because default in-camera sharpening is often too high.
Then I edit with the bare minimum of sharpening, usually about 30 to 40 % (30 to 40 along the slider line in the Edit/Color Correction/Sharpening path) and about 1//3 of that amount Video Noise Reduction. For example, if a clip can get by with sharpening at 30%, I'll add about 8 to 10 % of Video Noise Reduction. I think those settings are the key, for me at least. Keepin sharpening to a minimum is an absolute necessity, if horrible video noise is to be avoided. The addition of a moderate amount of Video Noise Reduction is also important.
Produce in MPEG-2 with the (HDV)MPEG-2 720p profile. (Though actually, the standard MEPG-2 DVD-HQ profile works almost as well as the HDV one.)
Burn in DVD format with HQ-DVD selected.
The resulting videos have a little bit of residual noise, but it's not too distracting. They have some detail, though of course not nearly as much as the AVCHD versions from the same clips.
I tried making a Custom profile for producing but as I expected, it was no better than the ones supplied by PF 10.
Final observation - the results are always much better when shooting in indirect sunlight, than they are when shooting indoors with artificial light, even when the artificial light is quite bright. I don't know why this is.
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Jeff - Sorry - I'll try again, hoping to be more clear.
I certainly didn't mean to say I wanted an SD quality video as such, straight out of the box. I thought I specifically said my problem is that the videos I'm making with the DVD burning option are way below par in quality - way too noisy, lacking in detail - and that I've been hoping to find some way to use the DVD burning option to make videos of reasonable quality (maybe not great, but acceptable), which people with average powered computers and graphics cards can play. I guess I didn't make it plain enough, or maybe it got lost in the thread somewhere.
My own desktop computer has no trouble with AVCHDs and I'm delighted with the quality of those. But my family will not be able to play AVCHDs.
I'm not sure I understand your most recent note. I think you're now saying that creating a Custom profile will not help with the problem I'm having - is that correct?
Bill
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Playvideo -
Thank you very much for your reply. It's very helpful! I've been reluctant to create a Custom profile, but maybe with your new information I can do it, and have better quality DVDs.
I had not known, for example, that the max resolution of DVD video is 720X480, so that's a big part of the explanation of why DVD doesn't look as good as AVCHD. I knew the bitrate of DVD was lower than AVCHD, but that's all I knew. You're correct that I've been shooting, producing, and (usually) burning at 1920X1080 for my AVCHDs.
Of course I have always known that the preview doesn't affect the quality of the burned video. The surprise to me was that it didn't look much like the burned video. Why call it a "preview" if it is not an indication of what will come after it (the burned version)? That's not your problem or mine, of course - but PD might have done a better job of it.
When you create a Custom profile in the PD Produce page and set the bitrate at 5200 kbps, are you increasing resolution? I ask that because you said that you get 1 hour of video on a 4.7GB DVD at PD's "DVD HQ Best Quanity" setting, but you get 2 hours when you set bitrate at 5200. Since you can pack more video time onto a DVD disc at 5200, I'd have thought final quality was less at 5200.
You recommended "set bitrate of the profile as the time of the video, exp 90 min 6000 Kbps". I think I know what you mean there. If I don't need to put more than, say, 30 minutes of video on a single DVD disc, I can set a high bitrate - perhaps something like 8000 or 9000 Kbps, and get a better looking final result in the burned video?
Thanks again for your excellent reply. It's the first time I've had hope that I could bring my DVD videos up to a standard which I'd be willing to share with friends and family.
Bill
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A few questions for you then - because if you're getting good results, then I have to be doing something very wrong:
(1) What format(s) do you use to Produce your DVD videos?
(2) Does the HD preview, or any of the previews, in the Edit page accurately reflect what your final burned DVD will look like? How about the final Preview in the Create Disc page?
(3) Can you give me an idea of how much sharpening you use, both in-camera (I keep in-camera sharpening turned completely off) and also in the PD Edit page? In PD, could you guess you use minimal sharpening,1/8th of the way along the slider, slight sharpening (maybe 1/4 of the way along the slider), moderate (about halfway up the slider) or more than that? Do you use video denoise in the PD Edit page? If so, how much denoise (again, slight, moderate, midway, or more than that)?
In my case, the HD Preview on the Edit page looks okay, far better than the final burned result. The immediate pre-burn Preview, on the Create Disc page, actually looks quite good - some noise, but nothing too intrusive, and acceptable detail. It's not AVCHD, but it's quite good enough to send to friends and family who don't have powerful computers and good graphic cards.
When burning with the DVD format, I've always selected "HQ-Best Quality" DVD burn. My DVDs will play on either computer (the powerful desktop one, or the low-end underpowered laptop with its uncalibrated LCD screen), but once they have been burned to disc or to the computer's HD they are completely unacceptable in quality, no matter what software player I use - WMP, Nero Show Time, Splash, VLC Media Player. That's true if they're played on the flat screen TV (BD player there), desktop computer, or the laptop.
I've had no trouble at all with burning in the AVCHD format. Those videos look really excellent - best if they're AVCHD to begin with of course, but very good even if they start as MEPG-2s.
I'm a bit puzzled by all this, because although the DVD templates available in the PD 10 program do have some video noise, their detail is very good and the amount of noise I see is far less than I see from the video clips I've produced (rendered) and burned with "HQ-Best Quality".
I'm hoping there is something I am doing wrong, or some tweak I could make during processing or burning.
Bill
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