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DVD video size used for single and dual layer
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Vexorg [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2022 17:45 Messages: 6 Offline
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I had a number of video files that I was burning to standard dvd.

I have a number of singles and dual layer discs. The files are encoded to DVD mpeg2 format, so should import with no issue,
and they do, only the size used for a dual layer disc is much larger than single layer.

A 1 hour movie clip is 1.6GB on single layer disc, and 2.2Gb when put on dual layer. Both have the same quality settings. I was hoping to get 5 videos on the dual layer as I can only fit 2 on a single layer (just short of the 4.7Gb limit).

Why???

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 25. 2022 04:36

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Forum Moderator [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Feb 27, 2018 01:01 Messages: 455 Offline
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Hello,

Which exact burning feature are you using? Video Disc > DVD-Video Disc? Data Disc > DVD? If the using the former, a screenshot of the disc preferences tab would be helpful.

Cheers
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Vexorg [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2022 17:45 Messages: 6 Offline
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Sorry for the delay, options selected here, and 1hour dvd file added to project:









Flicking between 4.7 and 8.5Gb discs will change the size to 1.7Gb or 2.3Gb respectively.
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Forum Moderator [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Feb 27, 2018 01:01 Messages: 455 Offline
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Quote I had a number of video files that I was burning to standard dvd.

I have a number of singles and dual layer discs. The files are encoded to DVD mpeg2 format, so should import with no issue,
and they do, only the size used for a dual layer disc is much larger than single layer.

A 1 hour movie clip is 1.6GB on single layer disc, and 2.2Gb when put on dual layer. Both have the same quality settings. I was hoping to get 5 videos on the dual layer as I can only fit 2 on a single layer (just short of the 4.7Gb limit).

Why???


Hello,

Thanks for the screenshots and additional information. When Power2Go burns the DVD-video disc the video bitrate is encoded dynamically (Variable Bitrate) in the produced video disc. Because of this, 8.5 GB DL video disc production uses the "maximum" bitrate possible for the best quality, which will be a bit higher than 4.7 GB DL video disc production.

I suggest just adding the 5 videos you want to add to the dual layer disc, and then select the "Smart Fit" option from the encoding format and quality drop down. Power2Go will encode the files with a similar quality to what they currently have.

Cheers
Power2Go Moderator

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Oct 31. 2022 02:12

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Vexorg [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2022 17:45 Messages: 6 Offline
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So what's the point of the quality setting?

There is 'high', 'SP' and 'LP', with the bit rate beside it, and if I change the bit rate too 'high', then the size on disc changes accordingly. Changing to 'high' sets it at 9.5Mb/s and almost doubles the size on disc.


And if there is only one video of 1-hour on a single layer 4.7Gb disc, why would it not also increase the bit rate, since there's lots of free space unused?
When burning 2 videos to a single layer disc, then it uses 3.2 - 3.4Gb, leaving wasted space. It seems a flawed logic here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 31. 2022 02:44

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QC2.0 [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Apr 27, 2016 04:02 Messages: 549 Offline
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Quote So what's the point of the quality setting?

There is 'high', 'SP' and 'LP', with the bit rate beside it, and if I change the bit rate too 'high', then the size on disc changes accordingly. Changing to 'high' sets it at 9.5Mb/s and almost doubles the size on disc.


And if there is only one video of 1-hour on a single layer 4.7Gb disc, why would it not also increase the bit rate, since there's lots of free space unused?
When burning 2 videos to a single layer disc, then it uses 3.2 - 3.4Gb, leaving wasted space. It seems a flawed logic here.


It seems you are going to make your case become a mess here.

Most of video editing tools produced videos in "variable bitrate" and any specificed bitrate user (you) selected will act as an average and approximate configuration or number.

I consider the moderator suggested above that the bitrate will be higher is about the real time bitrate, but the average bitrate is still about 9.5 mbps.

As it acts in variable form, it is not technically possible to produce your video in 9.5 mbps bitrate on every second using a video editor software.

In my opinion, the file size shown in power2go production window is just an safely-estimated value in case the video disc burning task break your discs or disc writer physically because of incorrectly over-burn.

Just select an preferred profile to produce your videos into video disc folder first on hard drives, and you can get the precise video disc folder size before your burn discs.

You can then produce the disc folder on dual layer discs physcially without worrying the estimated file size number.
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Vexorg [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2022 17:45 Messages: 6 Offline
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I get it's a variable bit rate, and the actual size is a guess.

What doesn't make sense is the random change in quality that's not reflected in the settings. And if I choose 'high' then the dual layer size jumps to 4Gb, so it's clearly not maximising the bit rate at 2.3Gb.


where does it show the actual bit rate?
If I'm happy with the quality at 1.7Gb, where can you set the same quality for the dual layer setting?

Again, where's the logic in changing the bit rate behind the scenes between single layer and dual layer?
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QC2.0 [Avatar]
Contributor Private Message Joined: Apr 27, 2016 04:02 Messages: 549 Offline
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Quote I get it's a variable bit rate, and the actual size is a guess.

What doesn't make sense is the random change in quality that's not reflected in the settings. And if I choose 'high' then the dual layer size jumps to 4Gb, so it's clearly not maximising the bit rate at 2.3Gb.


where does it show the actual bit rate?
If I'm happy with the quality at 1.7Gb, where can you set the same quality for the dual layer setting?

Again, where's the logic in changing the bit rate behind the scenes between single layer and dual layer?


As you already knew the actual bitrate is variable. your logic may make perfect sense for contant bitrate (CBR) profile (which is not offered in power2go), but it might not be applicable for variable bitrate encoding.

The profile you selected that still labelled with a bitrate in number is just a compression level reference and the profile won't give you an absolute bitrate because the actual bitrate is not available before the video really got encoded and compressed that are based on vidoe scene complexity and other graphic processing factors scientifically.

Technical wise, video compression (encoding) is very complicated in mechanism and it is a big topic, and variable bitrate encoding does not act on 100% precise or contant number basis.
You may consider the profiles a general quality level reference.

For example, if your video is just full of purely black or white static scene for an entire hour, you can try selecting a profile that labelled with extremely high bitrate, the produced video won't be encoded with the high bitrate you selected.

In my own test, the dual layer DVD that produced from a short source video (less than 10 minutes) via power2go, the maximum bitrate of the produced VOB videos is a bit higher than videos in single layer DVD folder, but the average bitrate is the same between these two disc folders.

To save your time and effort to dig in the bitrate differences, produce your project into disc folder first, then burn the folder into discs. Or, use smartfit to produce your DVD discs.
But, if you really need a disc production tool that produced video disc in precise and contant bitrate, you may need to look for other software. The file size will be precisely measured before the disc produced, and the produced bitrate will be identical to what you selected.

For what I know so far, Cyberlink's power2go or powerdirector all act on variable bitrate basis to encode or produce videos.
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Vexorg [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2022 17:45 Messages: 6 Offline
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So the bottom line is that you are saying power2go is just rubbish at predicting file size and they can't control the bit rate.


i am very familiar with video compression, and have ripped, or transcoded many video files for my kids to watch stuff on iPad or phone. Mainly using ffmpeg, and that does a very good job of getting the average bit rate close from the start of the conversion.


But here's the thing, although the bit rate is variable, the algorithm is fixed. So when I compress or convert the video format from one to another, then if I do it again with the same command line setting for encoding, bit rate, video size, etc, then the output file is the same size! It won't change based on the medium it is destined for.


Maybe power2go is just too basic and lacks the detailed control I like. To randomly change the bit rate based on medium makes absolutely no sense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 01. 2022 10:07

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Vexorg [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Oct 23, 2022 17:45 Messages: 6 Offline
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Well, it clear no-one knows the logic behind it, saying it's variable compression makes no sense as the algorithm doesn't know the disc size, or why the size is inconsistent with high and standard quality.

The compression is deterministic, not some random values that pulled out of thin air each time.
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