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A quick q about frame templates
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Ed19712022 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 09, 2022 09:44 Messages: 15 Offline
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Hi Folks,

Just a quick question because I really, really like these templates and use them a lot.

However, I seem to notice that when I apply a frame template, it tends to make the picture very slightly out of focus or, rather, it softens it a bit.

I would much rather it did not do this or let me adjust the level of softness it applies. I am not sure if this effect happens on all templates but it does seem to happen on many.

Now, unlike Edit, you cannot add any kind of mask to a template. But I have tested this by simply applying a frame to a fully transparent PNG and then using this as a layer over my original PNG.

The weird thing is, even though the PNG is fully transparent, the photo is still clearly less sharp then the original PNG without the frame.

Any ideas what might be causing this? I'm literally taking a PNG and adding a frame template, nothing more. When I export the PNG with and without a frame, the difference can be seen.

It only seems to affect pics from one camera (phone), however. I've tested this with other pics off the web and it's fine, no change.

For some reason, JPEGs from this Samsung phone get minimally softened and darkened when a frame template is added.

Well, I did want to buy a digital camera, maybe now is the time...

Thx,

Ed
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Hello Ed,

That's an odd issue... & one I can't replicate.

Being an iPhone user myself, I had to download some sample files from a Samsung Galaxy S22 (& some others) for testing.

I could not find any detectable difference in image quality after a frame template had be applied, either in PhD or in the exported files.

The files in this ZIP are 1. the original photo, 2. the exported framed photo, & 3. the actual frame that was applied. See if you can find a difference in image quality. Zoom in to 100% for accuracy.

At first I wondered whether it was anything to do with how the frame is "dynamically" reproportioned to match the photo, but haven't followed that up.

What is the model of your Samsung phone?

PIX PhD CDR ADR DZ MVL PP Forum Moderator
PIX YouTube channel
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Ed19712022 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 09, 2022 09:44 Messages: 15 Offline
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Quote Hello Ed,

That's an odd issue... & one I can't replicate.

Being an iPhone user myself, I had to download some sample files from a Samsung Galaxy S22 (& some others) for testing.

I could not find any detectable difference in image quality after a frame template had be applied, either in PhD or in the exported files.

The files in this ZIP are 1. the original photo, 2. the exported framed photo, & 3. the actual frame that was applied. See if you can find a difference in image quality. Zoom in to 100% for accuracy.

At first I wondered whether it was anything to do with how the frame is "dynamically" reproportioned to match the photo, but haven't followed that up.

What is the model of your Samsung phone?

PIX


Hi Pix,

Many thanks for checking this out as always! I now don't think it is the phone (would be odd anyway, a JPEG is a JPEG...).

It only occurs if you use Adjustment to change the pic and then apply a frame. This, I would imagine, is the normal way to do things.

I tried using one common adjustment, for example and immediately saw the effect again in exported pics.

Check out the attached pics.

The only change to the original before adding a frame was

  • Auto color enhance @ 50%


You can see that the second pic is very slightly darker and softer, the difference is clear if you flick between them quickly.

Thx,

Ed
[Thumb - Frame test with frame.png]
 Filename
Frame test with frame.png
[Disk]
 Description
Original plus frame (no other edits)
 Filesize
3472 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
2 time(s)
[Thumb - Frame test original.png]
 Filename
Frame test original.png
[Disk]
 Description
Original photo, color auto-enhanced by 50%
 Filesize
3563 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
2 time(s)
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Ed19712022 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 09, 2022 09:44 Messages: 15 Offline
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Quote


Hi Pix,

Many thanks for checking this out as always! I now don't think it is the phone (would be odd anyway, a JPEG is a JPEG...).

It only occurs if you use Adjustment to change the pic and then apply a frame. This, I would imagine, is the normal way to do things.

I tried using one common adjustment, for example and immediately saw the effect again in exported pics.

Check out the attached pics.

The only change to the original before adding a frame was

  • Auto color enhance @ 50%


You can see that the second pic is very slightly darker and softer, the difference is clear if you flick between them quickly.

Thx,

Ed


Hi Pix,

Just tried something else: same happens if you sharpen first.

I suspect it happens whatever adjustment you make. Something is going on when the frame template is applied after an adjustment.

This time I just sharpened the original by 100%.

The frame PNG is clearly much darker and softer.

Thx,

Ed
[Thumb - Original, sharp 100.png]
 Filename
Original, sharp 100.png
[Disk]
 Description
Original photo, with sharp applied at 100%
 Filesize
4158 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
0 time(s)
[Thumb - Original, sharp 100 plus frame.png]
 Filename
Original, sharp 100 plus frame.png
[Disk]
 Description
Original, sharp 100, plus frame
 Filesize
3858 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
0 time(s)
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Ed19712022 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 09, 2022 09:44 Messages: 15 Offline
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Quote


Hi Pix,

Just tried something else: same happens if you sharpen first.

I suspect it happens whatever adjustment you make. Something is going on when the frame template is applied after an adjustment.

This time I just sharpened the original by 100%.

The frame PNG is clearly much darker and softer.

Thx,

Ed


OK, I just thought of something else. I was resizing these photos on exporting them.

This is what causes it!

If I don't resize the pictures, then no change can be seen, everything's fine.

What might PhD be doing when resizing that would cause this softer/darker thing? I'm exporting and resizing both pictures with the same settings, after all. Changing these settings makes no difference whatsoever. The framed pic is always softer and darker. Very noticeably so in the last sharpened images.

I can of course just export at original size and resize outside PhD, but it is weird and frustrating that it does this.

Thx,

Ed
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Ed,

I'm pleased you've nailed the problem down. I've been tying myself in knots trying to work out what was going on. I haven't been able to replicate any of the things you've reported & there's a good reason for that.

I was going to ask if you'd resized on export, or whether that was only to allow easier upload to the forum.

Nothing to do with the source of the photos. Nothing to do with adjustments. Nothing to do with applying a frame. ALL to do with export preferences! laughing (see attached screenshot)

In your export preferences, under Advanced, make sure you've got the setting right for you. They're obviously not at the moment or you wouldn't be disappointed.

Are you exporting in PNG format for a reason?

Yes - absolutely - downsizing significantly is likely to cause quality loss. I'm not sure what the original resolution of your photos is, but I'd be confident it was 960x720.

PIX
[Thumb - PhD_Export Prefs.jpg]
 Filename
PhD_Export Prefs.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
253 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
1 time(s)
PhD CDR ADR DZ MVL PP Forum Moderator
PIX YouTube channel
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Ed19712022 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 09, 2022 09:44 Messages: 15 Offline
[Post New]
Quote Ed,

I'm pleased you've nailed the problem down. I've been tying myself in knots trying to work out what was going on. I haven't been able to replicate any of the things you've reported & there's a good reason for that.

I was going to ask if you'd resized on export, or whether that was only to allow easier upload to the forum.

Nothing to do with the source of the photos. Nothing to do with adjustments. Nothing to do with applying a frame. ALL to do with export preferences! laughing (see attached screenshot)

In your export preferences, under Advanced, make sure you've got the setting right for you. They're obviously not at the moment or you wouldn't be disappointed.

Are you exporting in PNG format for a reason?

Yes - absolutely - downsizing significantly is likely to cause quality loss. I'm not sure what the original resolution of your photos is, but I'd be confident it was 960x720.

PIX


Hey Pix,

Many thanks for once again being the MVP for my enquiries on PhD!

I've done a few comparisons and it is indeed the resizing that's causing my issues. (Big resize: from my phone's 2988 x 5312 down to 1080p.)

Your point about PNG is well made, since I was wanting to keep as much quality as possible but your suggested JPEG setting works better: rather than resize and PNG, keep the original and max out JPEG quality.

Plus I've also discovered a whole range of software tools outside of PhD that can optimise JPEGs anyway, especially for online, so I think my workflow will now be to export a nice big JPEG from PhD like you do here and then resize for a specific kind of presentation elsewhere. Makes more sense, especially if I want to do prints at some point, which will need different handling (and maybe 300 dpi on export).

I'll also start working in RAW anyway once I find my feet more with photography. I've been trying to use JPEGs for set up shots and then RAW on the phone for the final snaps and this works pretty well. Once I switch to an actual camera this is what I will be doing always.

Thanks again for all your help!

Ed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 18. 2022 03:06

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