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Pixelan Plugins lagging High End System!
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
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Hi folks,

I initially posted here:

https://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/96670.page

About needing to know how to create seamless transitions, I ended up looking into Pixelan Plugins and was sold almost immediately on what these plugins could do. I ended up installing the DEMO versions for:

Dissolvemaster
https://www.pixelan.com/dissolvemaster/intro.htm

Blurmaster
https://www.pixelan.com/blurmaster/intro.htm

Spicemaster
https://www.pixelan.com/sm25/intro.htm

I went to purchase the $99 Transitions Bundle, downloaded and installed the plugins, had a one minute clip and added a few transitions, went to preview them and immediately noticed the flawless preview went to a snails pace previewing these transitions.

I am completely stumped because I run an already optimized machine, my specs are:

- Win11 x64 OS
- x570 DARK HERO Mobo
- 5950x OC to 5.2Ghz
- 3090 Strix OC GPU
- 64gb of CL14 Ram
- Video footage on 980 Pro PCIE 4.0 NVME @7000mb/s

I have 4k footage and use PD365, settings below

Settings Page 1

Settings Page 2

Settings Page 3

I took a quick video of the lag with my phone, pardon the quality




Hello people, any ideas as to what I could do?

I contacted Pixelan but received nbothing back, thanks in advance!
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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I've had Pixelan plug-ins for years and haven't ever had issues like you're showing unless I try to use my second monitor as a full screen preview.

It's the same situation with many of the built-in PD tools - no machine has the processing power to run all those pixels in realtime while also calculating/processing/rendering everything frame-by-frame the way PD works internally.

My suggestion is to skip the full screen second monitor unless you absolutely need it for quality, and then use non-realtime mode whenever possible and focus on the visuals. Otherwise, use the normal preview window or use the Render Preview or Produce Range tools to convert the computationally-dense sections of the timeline into something easy to play back.
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 6129 Offline
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I really don't see that much difference in that last video when using the blur transition in PD.
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
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Quote I really don't see that much difference in that last video when using the blur transition in PD.


That was just an example to show the lag, the transition is irrelevant, the fact it lags is the issue!
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
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Quote I've had Pixelan plug-ins for years and haven't ever had issues like you're showing unless I try to use my second monitor as a full screen preview.

It's the same situation with many of the built-in PD tools - no machine has the processing power to run all those pixels in realtime while also calculating/processing/rendering everything frame-by-frame the way PD works internally.

My suggestion is to skip the full screen second monitor unless you absolutely need it for quality, and then use non-realtime mode whenever possible and focus on the visuals. Otherwise, use the normal preview window or use the Render Preview or Produce Range tools to convert the computationally-dense sections of the timeline into something easy to play back.


I only used the second monitor for the video purpose, the same is to be said using the normal preview window, I use the normal preview window only for all my editing,

Also what are the Produce Range tools?

Its very frustraiting because I have never experienced any lag whatsoever under every other condition, its just these plugins, but anyway, thanks very much for your help too!

P.S I wont use non realtime as I need to get audio edit points fluently which realtime does, its such a shame because technically good plugins but currently worthless, I'll see what the dev says and go from there!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 28. 2022 20:33

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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The easiest way to find more info on any tool or feature in PD is to use the F1 key to bring up the online help page.

The Pixelan tools are certainly not worthless, but you will need to make some changes to your workflow if you require perfect previewing performance/fluidity.

In my testing on 2 monitors just now, there's a noticeable lag when previewing on a second monitor vs the smaller preview window, but I agree with you that the lag is present on both and that it disrupts the smooth playback seen with simpler transitions.

I've learned to tune that out and typically don't give it a second thought unless it's critical to make sure the dissolve/blur doesn't accidentally highlight something distracting, and then the non-realtime setting will show everything clearly and will let me tweak the transition's settings as needed.

My testing also showed that using Render Preview still had issues, as PD couldn't seamlessly switch between the pre-rendered section and the main timeline clips. However, using Produce Range and completely overwriting the original timeline content produced flawless results.

If the original content was still present and the new section was placed on the track directly below to hide it, PD stuggled as it still tried to process the "covered over" section, so you'll absolutely have to overwite the original section containing the transition to see the final results.

Other solutions are to lower the preview resolution and/or use shadow files, but each of those steps has their own drawbacks.

TL;DR There's no free lunch, and you'll have to choose the most important aspect about your transition and plan your workflow accordingly. That typically means using different timeline settings for different tasks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 28. 2022 21:07



YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | Ryzen 9 3950X | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
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Quote The easiest way to find more info on any tool or feature in PD is to use the F1 key to bring up the online help page.

The Pixelan tools are certainly not worthless, but you will need to make some changes to your workflow if you require perfect previewing performance/fluidity.

In my testing on 2 monitors just now, there's a noticeable lag when previewing on a second monitor vs the smaller preview window, but I agree with you that the lag is present on both and that it disrupts the smooth playback seen with simpler transitions.

I've learned to tune that out and typically don't give it a second thought unless it's critical to make sure the dissolve/blur doesn't accidentally highlight something distracting, and then the non-realtime setting will show everything clearly and will let me tweak the transition's settings as needed.

My testing also showed that using Render Preview still had issues, as PD couldn't seamlessly switch between the pre-rendered section and the main timeline clips. However, using Produce Range and completely overwriting the original timeline content produced flawless results.

If the original content was still present and the new section was placed on the track directly below to hide it, PD stuggled as it still tried to process the "covered over" section, so you'll absolutely have to overwite the original section containing the transition to see the final results.

Other solutions are to lower the preview resolution and/or use shadow files, but each of those steps has their own drawbacks.

TL;DR There's no free lunch, and you'll have to choose the most important aspect about your transition and plan your workflow accordingly. That typically means using different timeline settings for different tasks.


Ok thanks so so very much, I do not use shadow files, should I in fact use it?

I cannot believe that a high end system would have to use very low resolution to playback a preview because a plugin isn't optimized, I wonder if premiere folk also have this same issue, I have to compromise everything for these plugins.

I have never had any lag far from it in any application whatsoever, the only thing is these plugins, its incredibly frustraiting that I cannot have a workflow now at all!.

Ill try shadow files and lower the resolution, I'll be looking for an alternative in the meantime!
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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Quote I have never had any lag far from it in any application whatsoever, the only thing is these plugins, its incredibly frustraiting that I cannot have a workflow now at all!.

I know it's frustrating but I guarantee it isn't the Pixelan plug-ins. It's any computationally-intensive edits that can't be offloaded to the GPU.

Try rotating a 4K/60p video 180 degrees in a 60p project and preview it with the timeline preview quality set to UltraHD and see how long it runs before you get the Serious Frame Drop Detected message; same with Video In Reverse; or use the Speed Tool and set the Speed Multiplier to 10x and try to preview that for more than 2-3 seconds at any timeline preview resolution.

Your system won't be able to do it because PD's algorthms require many times more processing power than is available. That's the bottom line.

Many projects won't need any kind of workaround, especially if you can tolerate a few sections where the playback won't be perfect, but the main approach I've found with any project that needs these kinds of edits is to break the editing into sections and produce out the most intensive parts so you can then focus on the rest of the project.

For many kinds of edits, shadow files will work great as long as you wait for the yellow icons on all the clips in the Media Room to turn green.

Another approach is to use an intermediate codec like MagicYUV which will let PD sail through previewing. All of the tortuous examples I gave earlier are resolved when the clip doesn't have to be decoded at many times the normal playback rate, and that's what an intermediate codec does.

Shadow files will also be an improvement, but they're still encoded and will be subject to some lag. However the CPU will be better able to keep up since the pixel size and bitrate are much lower.
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
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Quote

I know it's frustrating but I guarantee it isn't the Pixelan plug-ins. It's any computationally-intensive edits that can't be offloaded to the GPU.

Try rotating a 4K/60p video 180 degrees in a 60p project and preview it with the timeline preview quality set to UltraHD and see how long it runs before you get the Serious Frame Drop Detected message; same with Video In Reverse; or use the Speed Tool and set the Speed Multiplier to 10x and try to preview that for more than 2-3 seconds at any timeline preview resolution.

Your system won't be able to do it because PD's algorthms require many times more processing power than is available. That's the bottom line.

Many projects won't need any kind of workaround, especially if you can tolerate a few sections where the playback won't be perfect, but the main approach I've found with any project that needs these kinds of edits is to break the editing into sections and produce out the most intensive parts so you can then focus on the rest of the project.

For many kinds of edits, shadow files will work great as long as you wait for the yellow icons on all the clips in the Media Room to turn green.

Another approach is to use an intermediate codec like MagicYUV which will let PD sail through previewing. All of the tortuous examples I gave earlier are resolved when the clip doesn't have to be decoded at many times the normal playback rate, and that's what an intermediate codec does.

Shadow files will also be an improvement, but they're still encoded and will be subject to some lag. However the CPU will be better able to keep up since the p

ixel size and bitrate are much lower.



Ok how do i apply this magic codec?

It's there a tutorial I can follow?

Thank you so very much 👍👍
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
[Post New]
Quote

I know it's frustrating but I guarantee it isn't the Pixelan plug-ins. It's any computationally-intensive edits that can't be offloaded to the GPU.

Try rotating a 4K/60p video 180 degrees in a 60p project and preview it with the timeline preview quality set to UltraHD and see how long it runs before you get the Serious Frame Drop Detected message; same with Video In Reverse; or use the Speed Tool and set the Speed Multiplier to 10x and try to preview that for more than 2-3 seconds at any timeline preview resolution.

Your system won't be able to do it because PD's algorthms require many times more processing power than is available. That's the bottom line.

Many projects won't need any kind of workaround, especially if you can tolerate a few sections where the playback won't be perfect, but the main approach I've found with any project that needs these kinds of edits is to break the editing into sections and produce out the most intensive parts so you can then focus on the rest of the project.

For many kinds of edits, shadow files will work great as long as you wait for the yellow icons on all the clips in the Media Room to turn green.

Another approach is to use an intermediate codec like MagicYUV which will let PD sail through previewing. All of the tortuous examples I gave earlier are resolved when the clip doesn't have to be decoded at many times the normal playback rate, and that's what an intermediate codec does.

Shadow files will also be an improvement, but they're still encoded and will be subject to some lag. However the CPU will be better able to keep up since the pixel size and bitrate are much lower.


OK, I have installed the Magic YUV codec, its the ultimate demo, is there anything I need to do in order for the change to happen, or is it just a matter of installing this program and codec and it will simply take effecct ??
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 7874 Offline
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There are several steps. Please refer to this discussion.
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Matt.777 [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jun 05, 2018 08:43 Messages: 41 Offline
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Quote There are several steps. Please refer to this discussion.


Ok Perfect, thanks opto and for your hard work on the programs etc to make it work with a better workflow thank you!
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