CyberLink Community Forum
where the experts meet
| Advanced Search >
Problem when using keyframes with crop/zoom option
Reply to this topic
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
I'm trying to make multiple cropping with some zooms in a clip. Start with full screen. After some time I want to zoom to a portion of the original screen (on the left side), still using the 16x9 format, but I always end up with a weird effect when the zoom takes place and if I have another clip in back of this one on the timeline some of that clip shows on the edges during the zoom from the full screen to the cropped area even though everything is supposed to be full screen size. And on the keyframe window I get this crazy convoluted path displayed rather than a straight path from the full screen to the cropped area. As an alternate I would perhaps like to just "jump" from full screen to the cropped area, but can't define one keyframe on top of the other. I realize that this may mean I'm forced to trim the clip for that area, but if there is a way to avoid that it would be nice.

In the process I also tried clicking on the keyframes button, but that doesn't actually show any keyframe markings even though I have already defined keyframes for the selected clip. In fact, I'm not sure what functions the keyframes button is suppoed to provide.
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8058 Offline
[Post New]
The Crop/Zoom/Pan tool is a self-contained feature and is typically used when you want a quick and easy sweeping path rather than any tightly controlled movement. To completely control the crop size, direction and speed of your pans, use the Keyframe tool on its own.

Basically you need to chose one or the other as they don't share info and trying to apply keyframes to a CZP clip (or vice versa) will only cause frustration.
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote The Crop/Zoom/Pan tool is a self-contained feature and is typically used when you want a quick and easy sweeping path rather than any tightly controlled movement. To completely control the crop size, direction and speed of your pans, use the Keyframe tool on its own.

Basically you need to chose one or the other as they don't share info and trying to apply keyframes to a CZP clip (or vice versa) will only cause frustration.


I tried using a "clean" copy of the same clip I was working with before, but just clicked on the keyframe button. What I can't figure out is how to crop the video (at a certain time) so that the cropped video will be full screen. I want tostart with the original video, then go to a cropped area that will fill the screen, then create a panning effect to pan from left to right, then go to the original video that I started with.

When I tried adjusting the height/width it's changing it at the center of the original video and I can't seem to find any way of (in this case) moving it to select an area from the left side of the screen (that I want to be displayed fullscreen). And then further down the fimeline I would want to move the same area to the right side of the original video so I would end up with a left to right panning action that would all be shown full screen.

I can't find an instructional video that address these ideas, which would basically duplicate the results of using crop/zoom/pan but with the keyframe editor would provide the abiliity to do other things.
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


I tried using a "clean" copy of the same clip I was working with before, but just clicked on the keyframe button. What I can't figure out is how to crop the video (at a certain time) so that the cropped video will be full screen. I want tostart with the original video, then go to a cropped area that will fill the screen, then create a panning effect to pan from left to right, then go to the original video that I started with.

When I tried adjusting the height/width it's changing it at the center of the original video and I can't seem to find any way of (in this case) moving it to select an area from the left side of the screen (that I want to be displayed fullscreen). And then further down the fimeline I would want to move the same area to the right side of the original video so I would end up with a left to right panning action that would all be shown full screen.

I can't find an instructional video that address these ideas, which would basically duplicate the results of using crop/zoom/pan but with the keyframe editor would provide the abiliity to do other things.


I just played around some more and may have made progress by changing the position attributes
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8058 Offline
[Post New]
There are so many keyframe tutrorials out there I can't begin to point you to any one of them.

What you're looking to do is very simple. This screenshot shows where to put keyframes to hold full frame steady for 1 sec, zoom in while holding the left edge over 1 sec, pan left to right for 4 sec, zoom out while holding the right edge for 1 sec, then playing 1 sec full screen again.



It might look complicated with all my markups but it's very straightforward to make. Here's what the produced video looks like:



You can download the sample project from this OneDrive folder to play around with. You may want to use the ease-in/ease-out options to soften the start/end of the zooms and/or pans, and you can drag any of the keyframes left/right to change the timing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 19. 2021 21:33

Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote There are so many keyframe tutrorials out there I can't begin to point you to any one of them.

What you're looking to do is very simple. This screenshot shows where to put keyframes to hold full frame steady for 1 sec, zoom in while holding the left edge over 1 sec, pan left to right for 4 sec, zoom out while holding the right edge for 1 sec, then playing 1 sec full screen again.



It might look complicated with all my markups but it's very straightforward to make. Here's what the produced video looks like:



You can download the sample project from this OneDrive folder to play around with. You may want to use the ease-in/ease-out options to soften the start/end of the zooms and/or pans, and you can drag any of the keyframes left/right to change the timing.


What would be very helpful would be a written list of the various functions available in the keyframe editor with a brief description of what each one means and a few words (where necessary) about how to use it. I don't think there is something like that in the help documentation. Brief explanations of the intended function(s) of each parameter would go a long way in helping users, even where a user may need to explore a funtion further the brief explanations would help a user to know which function(s) might be appropriate for their needs.
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


What would be very helpful would be a written list of the various functions available in the keyframe editor with a brief description of what each one means and a few words (where necessary) about how to use it. I don't think there is something like that in the help documentation. Brief explanations of the intended function(s) of each parameter would go a long way in helping users, even where a user may need to explore a funtion further the brief explanations would help a user to know which function(s) might be appropriate for their needs.


I've managed to figure out how to do in the keyframe window a number of the functions that I need, but the one that is very important to me but eludes me is the ability to select a section of a video, particularly one that has a different aspect ratio. In this case I want to select a section of the video that is only a portion of the vertical area of the screen, but is still the entire width. The reason for this is I want to use the top half of the screen to display two other video clips, one on the left side and the other on the right side. Those two additional videos may end up as sections of each or just each video scaled down in size to fit the area of the screen.

While this can be done with the crop/zoom/pan in tools, since earlier in this discussion it is said that the keyframe window and the tools option are basically intended to be mutually exclusive, I really would like to set this up as a keyframe within a clip to start and end at specific points in the clip(s). But, as I said, there does not appear to be a function that is available in the keyframe window that enables selecting a section of a video, especially one that does not match the aspect ratio of the video.

There must be a way to accomplish this, but but everything I've tried has failed miserably.
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8058 Offline
[Post New]
Can you please take a screenshot of your project's timeline?

Use Alt+PrintScreen or the Windows snipping tool (Win+Shift+S) if you have Win10/11, then paste it into Paint or any image editing app then save the image as PNG or JPG. Click on the Attachments button below the forum's text box to upload and share it here.

It would be ideal if you could mark it up showing how you're trying to make it look after the keyframed changes.

Also please note that just like the Crop/.Zoom/Pan tool, keyframes can only be applied to one clip at a time, so if you have mutiple clips and want to shrink or change the aspect ratio and rearrange them you'll need to do that individually.

If there are only sections of an individual clip that you're trying to change, you'll first need to mask that area and apply keyframes to the masked clip, not the original.
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote Can you please take a screenshot of your project's timeline?

Use Alt+PrintScreen or the Windows snipping tool (Win+Shift+S) if you have Win10/11, then paste it into Paint or any image editing app then save the image as PNG or JPG. Click on the Attachments button below the forum's text box to upload and share it here.

It would be ideal if you could mark it up showing how you're trying to make it look after the keyframed changes.

Also please note that just like the Crop/.Zoom/Pan tool, keyframes can only be applied to one clip at a time, so if you have mutiple clips and want to shrink or change the aspect ratio and rearrange them you'll need to do that individually.

If there are only sections of an individual clip that you're trying to change, you'll first need to mask that area and apply keyframes to the masked clip, not the original.


Not sure what you mean about "mask the area".

I did achieve the end result (as shown on the attached 2nd screenshot) by splitting the bottom file into a clip of the part I wanted to cloose a section to place across the bottom half of the screen, but I would have thought that the keyframe editor would have that capability within the functions available. I'm including a link below to the complete video (which is less than 3 minutes long) stored on my Google drive so you can see how this fits in to the overall video. I had already produced an edited version of the video using Magix Video Pro X13 but was not able to do a number of things and wanted to use that source material to see what was involved with PD 20 and to learn PD20 since it appears to work better for me for future projects.

Here's the link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t2tRztMCofHT1uLY2IpPw5Om5biWLuuA/view?usp=sharing

Hopefully this wil help you understand what I've been trying to learn to do with PD20.

Bob
[Thumb - Timeline BSMan 12-21-21.png]
 Filename
Timeline BSMan 12-21-21.png
[Disk]
 Description
Timeline related to keyframe questions and cropping using keyframes
 Filesize
343 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
5 time(s)
[Thumb - Desired 3 clip on screen result.png]
 Filename
Desired 3 clip on screen result.png
[Disk]
 Description
This shows the result I wanted.
 Filesize
314 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
6 time(s)
Reply
optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 8058 Offline
[Post New]
Thanks very much for all the details. If the only thing you were looking to do was to immediately cut to that triple view for a few seconds, then trimming the main clip like you did and moving the screen position of just that clip down was the simplest way to go. No keyframes needed at all.

If you wanted to use keyframes, you could have left the clip intact and simply placed a Position keyframe at around 1:59:00, followed the very next frame (1:59:01) with a new Position keyframe with a Y value of something like 0.9.

You'd then place a 3rd Position keyframe (with Y still at 0.9) at the last frame where you wanted to main clip to be in the lowered position, followed one frame later by the final Position Y keyframe with the value set to 0.5. The clip would instantly drop and return at the desired points in the video.

Take a look at the sample project where I used just 4 keyframes to move the main clip just like in your video.

I also used 4 keyframes in the Mask Designer to remove the top part of the lowered clip so it didn't cut off the bottom area of the two upper clips. Open up the Step Down Keyframe project (from the same link in my earlier post) and experiment to see how things work.
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote Thanks very much for all the details. If the only thing you were looking to do was to immediately cut to that triple view for a few seconds, then trimming the main clip like you did and moving the screen position of just that clip down was the simplest way to go. No keyframes needed at all.

If you wanted to use keyframes, you could have left the clip intact and simply placed a Position keyframe at around 1:59:00, followed the very next frame (1:59:01) with a new Position keyframe with a Y value of something like 0.9.

You'd then place a 3rd Position keyframe (with Y still at 0.9) at the last frame where you wanted to main clip to be in the lowered position, followed one frame later by the final Position Y keyframe with the value set to 0.5. The clip would instantly drop and return at the desired points in the video.

Take a look at the sample project where I used just 4 keyframes to move the main clip just like in your video.

I also used 4 keyframes in the Mask Designer to remove the top part of the lowered clip so it didn't cut off the bottom area of the two upper clips. Open up the Step Down Keyframe project (from the same link in my earlier post) and experiment to see how things work.

The problem isn't moving th clip, it's selecting a portion of the screen like you can do wth the crop/pan/zoom tool. In the function with height/width/maintain aspect ratio if the maintain aspect ratio is unchecked you should be able to adjust the height and width to select an area of the screen (or maybe do it in the freeform function, but there should be some place where you can select a portion of the screen without distorting the video.

What I was doing with the crop tool was selecting an area near the middle of the screen but with the full width of the screen and only part of the height which excluded some of the top part of the screen as well as part of the bottom of the screen. Then I can position that selected area where I want.

If I try the freeform functions they just distort the picture rather than doing a freeform selection area. It doesn't matter if I do it in the display window or by changing the values in the freeform parameters.
Reply
PowerDirector Moderator [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 1863 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


I did achieve the end result (as shown on the attached 2nd screenshot) by splitting the bottom file into a clip of the part I wanted to cloose a section to place across the bottom half of the screen, but I would have thought that the keyframe editor would have that capability within the functions available.
Hopefully this wil help you understand what I've been trying to learn to do with PD20.

Bob


Hi,

Apologies for the very quick and dirty simulation. I had to use your download, duly hacked and butchered to get bits of content.
Ignore any content synching (obviously I didn't have the full clips) and the odd glitch - but is this the sort of visual effect you are looking for?

If it is, then it's relatively easy to achieve and I can explain with more detail.
If it isn't then I didn't understand the question!!
Sorry!

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator
 Filename
PD Roadies 3 screen .mp4
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
22562 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
17 time(s)
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


Hi,

Apologies for the very quick and dirty simulation. I had to use your download, duly hacked and butchered to get bits of content.
Ignore any content synching (obviously I didn't have the full clips) and the odd glitch - but is this the sort of visual effect you are looking for?

If it is, then it's relatively easy to achieve and I can explain with more detail.
If it isn't then I didn't understand the question!!
Sorry!

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


Unfortunately, neither one of my computers could play the video of the file you sent, saying it's an unsupported format, although I have no problem with other mp4 files.

I'm attaching a screen shot of what I want to get from the center camera video file, since that's the one that the keyframe editor won't let me do If you look at the video I had sent earlier you can compare this screen shot to what the full screen of that video looks like. Hopefully this will clarify what I'm trying to achieve in the keyframe window rather than splitting a section from the video to use the crop tool on it to select just a section of the video.

Bob
[Thumb - selection of bottom clip only.png]
 Filename
selection of bottom clip only.png
[Disk]
 Description
This is the area I want to select from the clip using the keyframe window
 Filesize
142 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
2 time(s)
Reply
JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 5559 Offline
[Post New]
Quote Unfortunately, neither one of my computers could play the video of the file you sent, saying it's an unsupported format, although I have no problem with other mp4 files.

The mp4 is HEVC encoded video so you need the extension from MicroSoft store to play, https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/p/hevc-video-extensions/9nmzlz57r3t7?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

Attached is a H.264 version mp4 so you can play and let PDM know if he provided you a solution.

Jeff
 Filename
Produce_1.mp4
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
25487 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
12 time(s)
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote

The mp4 is HEVC encoded video so you need the extension from MicroSoft store to play, https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/p/hevc-video-extensions/9nmzlz57r3t7?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

Attached is a H.264 version mp4 so you can play and let PDM know if he provided you a solution.

Jeff


Thanks Jeff for converting the file to a format I could see.

This file does show what I'd like to do using keyframes rather than a mixture of keyframes (for the videos on the top that are just scaled down sizes) and the tool for cropping etc. If you can point me to the function that is availble in the keyframe window that enables the selecting a section of a video (and possibly resizing it), that should solve my question. I understand how to change the position of the selected area, but getting the right section of the video is.

Bob
Reply
PowerDirector Moderator [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 1863 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


Thanks Jeff for converting the file to a format I could see.

This file does show what I'd like to do using keyframes rather than a mixture of keyframes (for the videos on the top that are just scaled down sizes) and the tool for cropping etc. If you can point me to the function that is availble in the keyframe window that enables the selecting a section of a video (and possibly resizing it), that should solve my question. I understand how to change the position of the selected area, but getting the right section of the video is.

Bob


Hi,
Apologies for the format, too quick off the mark in the production window.

Any chance you could upload the raw footage from each camera for that performance?
If so I will probably have time on Thursday to do a more comprehensive version of the way I would approach it. I can then upload the project file and you can study it, if that would be helpful?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


Hi,
Apologies for the format, too quick off the mark in the production window.

Any chance you could upload the raw footage from each camera for that performance?
If so I will probably have time on Thursday to do a more comprehensive version of the way I would approach it. I can then upload the project file and you can study it, if that would be helpful?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


Hi,
Might I suggest that you take about 20-30 seconds of any HD video you have and just click on the keyframe button and then try to select a section of the video (let's say the center area using the entire width but halfway down from the top and halfway up from the bottom) in the keyframe window without distorting the image. At this point I would bet that none of the functions available with the keyframe window will allow you to do that....but I hope I'm wrong. If you get this to work, then try doing it while keeping the entire height of the video but cutting off part of each side (sort of like a 4x3 frame would be).

Best,
Bob
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


Hi,
Might I suggest that you take about 20-30 seconds of any HD video you have and just click on the keyframe button and then try to select a section of the video (let's say the center area using the entire width but halfway down from the top and halfway up from the bottom) in the keyframe window without distorting the image. At this point I would bet that none of the functions available with the keyframe window will allow you to do that....but I hope I'm wrong. If you get this to work, then try doing it while keeping the entire height of the video but cutting off part of each side (sort of like a 4x3 frame would be).

Best,
Bob


I should have also suggested that you could just tell me the functions to use and briefly describe how to use them, assuming you get this to work.

Bob
Reply
PowerDirector Moderator [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 1863 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


I should have also suggested that you could just tell me the functions to use and briefly describe how to use them, assuming you get this to work.

Bob


Hi, as far as I know, being able to achieve what you want on a single clip only with keyframes is not possible.

If you use overlay clips and masking, as Optodata indicated, it can be relatively straightforward but care will be needed to make the clips "fit" the overall screen when zoomed and panned, as well as accurately synching clips (in this particular case).

As always, there will be more than one way to achieve your overall aims, such as pre-producing clips and then fitting them into your final production, so others may have alternative suggestions.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator
Reply
BSMan [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Dec 17, 2021 13:37 Messages: 22 Offline
[Post New]
Quote


Hi, as far as I know, being able to achieve what you want on a single clip only with keyframes is not possible.

If you use overlay clips and masking, as Optodata indicated, it can be relatively straightforward but care will be needed to make the clips "fit" the overall screen when zoomed and panned, as well as accurately synching clips (in this particular case).

As always, there will be more than one way to achieve your overall aims, such as pre-producing clips and then fitting them into your final production, so others may have alternative suggestions.

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


Thanks. I didn't think that there was a function in keyframes to do this, but I was hoping I was wrong, since there are so many things that can be accomplished with keyframes and they are so easy to use and manage in Program Director 20. At least now I know and as you could tell from the video I sent you I did figure out a way to accomplish it without the keyframes.

Best wishes for the season and next year!
Bob
Reply
Reply to this topic
Powered by JForum 2.1.8 © JForum Team