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Novice Editor; need help identifying what type of sound "noise" this is
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ScottBAustin [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 12, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline
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I am capturing VHS (over 30 years old) to digital (MP4). I am having a problem with the audio tracks. There is a series of 'clicks' occuring throughout the video every 0.1 seconds. Consistenly spaced and same wave form (-18db) I am trying remove these annoying 'clicks' but the click remove function of Audio Director does not have any effect. I do not know even if they are considered 'clicks' but that is how they sound.

How can I determine the type of sound problem I have ? That would help me find the right function of Audio Director to remove them
 Filename
Annoying Clicks.ads
[Disk]
 Description
Clicks I want to remove
 Filesize
5 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
449 time(s)
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 5030 Offline
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You probably need to include an audio file for C:\Users\scott\Videos\VHS Raw\1987.mp4 for anyone to provide some guidance. Just save part of it (audio only is fine) that has the clicks and upload to the forum. Maybe a few users would supply suggestions.

The *.ads file just supplies knowledge of what was being edited, not the actual files, just pointers to them,

Jeff
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 5793 Offline
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There is no sample audio in your audio director project file. A 10 seconds sample supplied during quiet moments can help other users to determine what is needed. It is possible for the manual tracking adjustment on the vcr if it has one can set it to have either good picture or good audio but not both unless the original camera or vcr is used to play that original tape. Does the vhs tape have linear mono or stereo hi-fi audio... That would make a huge difference in finding a different vcr to match the tape you have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 03. 2021 11:28

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ScottBAustin [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 12, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline
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Quote You probably need to include an audio file for C:\Users\scott\Videos\VHS Raw\1987.mp4 for anyone to provide some guidance. Just save part of it (audio only is fine) that has the clicks and upload to the forum. Maybe a few users would supply suggestions.

The *.ads file just supplies knowledge of what was being edited, not the actual files, just pointers to them,

Jeff



thank you Jeff and TOMASC. I am a novice; apologies. Here is an MP4 file with the annoying clicks. IF I just knew what they were, I could remove them with Audio director. Thank you
 Filename
annoying click sound sample.mp4
[Disk]
 Description
sample of clicks i want to remove
 Filesize
326 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
442 time(s)
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 5793 Offline
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Quote thank you Jeff and TOMASC. I am a novice; apologies. Here is an MP4 file with the annoying clicks. IF I just knew what they were, I could remove them with Audio director. Thank you

Thank you for the audio sample. That is a hardware issue in sound from the linear mono track of the vhs tape. It has what is known as wow and flutter in the analog audio portion of the tape. This flutter heard is usually caused by a bent capstan or a dirty capstan and slipping pinch roller. The vhs machine needs to be serviced by a competent technician.

There are specialized software made for reducing analog recording wow and flutter in a digital world that you way want to explore if you do not want to get a different vhs player like this one : https://youtu.be/qqK6wgsh3QA .
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 5030 Offline
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ScottBAustin, there is not enough audio length for me to hear any wow and flutter as that creates a pitch change and really one only has less than a sec of voice at the end to detect any pitch issues which is a challenge for my old ears. To me, you have an underlying freq issue and infinite harmonics that create the periodic wave form you reference in OP. How did you go from VHS (mono or stereo depending on vintage) to 6 channels? I also don't know what created the stray freq (~9 Hz) as it does not match typical sources I've seen so not sure if same freq content present in other parts of capture.

I took your 6 channels and attenuated the stray freq and harmonics with a basic noise filter and attached the result. Again, I don't know if it might be acceptable as when you pull noise out of the audio signal you also compromise the real audio, however, there was not enough real audio to judge the damage done.

I'd surely try a different VHS system or have it serviced as tomasc has suggested.

The filtered clip is attached, basically fairly silent except for last ~1 sec, "Ya so 20 years"

Jeff
 Filename
Produce_fix.wav
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
11352 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
421 time(s)
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ScottBAustin [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 12, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline
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Quote ScottBAustin, there is not enough audio length for me to hear any wow and flutter as that creates a pitch change and really one only has less than a sec of voice at the end to detect any pitch issues which is a challenge for my old ears. To me, you have an underlying freq issue and infinite harmonics that create the periodic wave form you reference in OP. How did you go from VHS (mono or stereo depending on vintage) to 6 channels? I also don't know what created the stray freq (~9 Hz) as it does not match typical sources I've seen so not sure if same freq content present in other parts of capture.

I took your 6 channels and attenuated the stray freq and harmonics with a basic noise filter and attached the result. Again, I don't know if it might be acceptable as when you pull noise out of the audio signal you also compromise the real audio, however, there was not enough real audio to judge the damage done.

I'd surely try a different VHS system or have it serviced as tomasc has suggested.

The filtered clip is attached, basically fairly silent except for last ~1 sec, "Ya so 20 years"

Jeff


tHANK YOU again for your willingness to help, Jeff. First, I am attaching the full audio for the associated video (+2hrs). I am not sure how I created so many channels (6) as I was using a Elgato Video capture 'dongle' connected to a refurbed VHS unit. I purchased the unit at a premium as those devices are not readily available. The tape(s) that I am having a problem with were recorded over 30 years ago on two different VHS cameras. I need to also not that I am NOT having the problem with 'store bought' VHS tapes for the same era. Only those recorded on old cameras.

If you find a mechanism to remove this 'noise' with Audio Director, please direct me to those functions. Thanks
 Filename
1987AudioOnly.mp4
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
125863 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
23 time(s)
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 5030 Offline
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Quote tHANK YOU again for your willingness to help, Jeff. First, I am attaching the full audio for the associated video (+2hrs). I am not sure how I created so many channels (6) as I was using a Elgato Video capture 'dongle' connected to a refurbed VHS unit. I purchased the unit at a premium as those devices are not readily available. The tape(s) that I am having a problem with were recorded over 30 years ago on two different VHS cameras. I need to also not that I am NOT having the problem with 'store bought' VHS tapes for the same era. Only those recorded on old cameras.

If you find a mechanism to remove this 'noise' with Audio Director, please direct me to those functions. Thanks

Now you are back to 2 channels in this upload. It appears you might be creating these "audio" only files by producing a video in PD. That production will take on whatever audio settings you define for that video "Produce". Audio only in this fashion still has the video present, it's just black. This last one is, 128kbps, 2 channel AAC. Unsure what your source audio really is, 128kbps may or may not have the quality one desires.

I checked 4 parts throughout the 2hr 4min clip and the ~9Hz noise initiator is very stable and maintains that freq. In the spots I listened to, I did not hear any pitch issues.

Below are the simplest couple steps I could envision for easy global cleanup:
1) Use MediaInfo on your source captured file to understand the quality of audio in that file. Maintain at least that.
2) Based on 1 specifics, maybe load your source captured video in PD and right click on file in media library and "Extract Audio". This will create a wav file.
3) Load wav file in Audacity
4) Select a chunk of just noise, zoom in and select like maybe 6min48sec to 6min51sec in this last uploaded file
5) Use menu "Effect > Noise Reduction..." and select "Get Noise Profile"
6) Use "Ctrl a" to select entire audio, then "Effect > Noise Reduction..." and select "OK"
7) Export as a wav file and use this audio in PD, muting the original source audio and see if it meets your need

The results of the above procedure sounded pretty good to me, I heard very little effects of the filter in voice dominated areas that I checked.

Jeff
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ScottBAustin [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Aug 12, 2021 15:15 Messages: 4 Offline
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Quote

Now you are back to 2 channels in this upload. It appears you might be creating these "audio" only files by producing a video in PD. That production will take on whatever audio settings you define for that video "Produce". Audio only in this fashion still has the video present, it's just black. This last one is, 128kbps, 2 channel AAC. Unsure what your source audio really is, 128kbps may or may not have the quality one desires.

I checked 4 parts throughout the 2hr 4min clip and the ~9Hz noise initiator is very stable and maintains that freq. In the spots I listened to, I did not hear any pitch issues.

Below are the simplest couple steps I could envision for easy global cleanup:
1) Use MediaInfo on your source captured file to understand the quality of audio in that file. Maintain at least that.
2) Based on 1 specifics, maybe load your source captured video in PD and right click on file in media library and "Extract Audio". This will create a wav file.
3) Load wav file in Audacity
4) Select a chunk of just noise, zoom in and select like maybe 6min48sec to 6min51sec in this last uploaded file
5) Use menu "Effect > Noise Reduction..." and select "Get Noise Profile"
6) Use "Ctrl a" to select entire audio, then "Effect > Noise Reduction..." and select "OK"
7) Export as a wav file and use this audio in PD, muting the original source audio and see if it meets your need

The results of the above procedure sounded pretty good to me, I heard very little effects of the filter in voice dominated areas that I checked.

Jeff



My apologies for the delay in response Jeff, but your directions completely addressed my issue/problem. You are a genius Thank you so very much for your time and expertise. I only wish I could repay you for your effort.
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