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Brand New Fast PC Very Slow Rendering Issue With PD 365 Suite
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Munro Flyer [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 25, 2020 11:25 Messages: 7 Offline
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Hi Folks, I’m sorry if this post I a bit long winded but I think Cyberlink has a seriously flawed program there selling to people. I have just built myself a brand new £1700 fast PC and just bought the subscription based PowerDirector 18 365 suite. I thought that this was going to be a great combo for editing my 4K drone videos but to my horror rendering time is extremely slow. If it helps, here is my PC spec.

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
MSI MPG X570 Gaming Edge Motherboard
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 Super Windforce 8MB
Corsair Vengeance LPX Black 32GB 3600MHz Ryzen Tuned
Noctua Dual Radiator CPU Cooler
650W Power Supply
My OS and programs are on a 250GB M.2 NVMe SSD
I work off a 2nd 250GB M.2 NVMe both Samsung 970 EVO

Now just as an example video I used 3 4K Clips 24fps, added start and end titles with a FX in them, I sped up the clips a bit, added some colour correction like exposure, contrast, highlights, shadows, clarity, vibrancy, and a MP3 track to finish, and made the video 3 minutes long.
I thought to myself at worst this should take 10 minutes to produce/render but it took 45 minuits, I thought, there’s something way wrong here.
I have got the latest driver for my GPU the Nvidia studio one and it’s a clean download, not downloaded over the previous one. In program files I have set PDR.exe to high performance and this tweak brought the render time down to 25 minutes but still way to long I think for a 3 minuit video.
When I was using my old PC I was editing with Davinci Resolve 16 free version and even 12 minute long videos were only taking 10 – 15 minutes to render.
For some reason I can’t seem to activate SVRT to help it along. Is there a fix out there.
Cheers.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4882 Online
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The short answer is that the edits you've made all require extensive computational power to render each and every 4K frame, and there's no chance that you can use SVRT with any of those edits.

You don't mention what output profile you're producing to, but you may see slightly better results if you try switching to H.264 or H.265 from whichever one you're currently using. You can also use the Profile Analyzer button on the Produce page to make sure PD is using the most efficient producing profile for your source clips

If you want to get a sense for how quickly your machine can produce those clips, use Save As and create a test project, then uncheck the speed changes and all the color correction boxes and produce that. To see which corrections have the biggest impact, recheck them one by one and start producing and you should see the ones you might want to avoid whenever producing time is crucial.

With all the corrections unchecked, you might have SVRT available. Use the Profile Analyzer again and check the Intelligent SVRT tab if not, and that should give you a produce time of only a few seconds to a minute or so.
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Munro Flyer [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 25, 2020 11:25 Messages: 7 Offline
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Quote The short answer is that the edits you've made all require extensive computational power to render each and every 4K frame, and there's no chance that you can use SVRT with any of those edits.

You don't mention what output profile you're producing to, but you may see slightly better results if you try switching to H.264 or H.265 from whichever one you're currently using. You can also use the Profile Analyzer button on the Produce page to make sure PD is using the most efficient producing profile for your source clips

If you want to get a sense for how quickly your machine can produce those clips, use Save As and create a test project, then uncheck the speed changes and all the color correction boxes and produce that. To see which corrections have the biggest impact, recheck them one by one and start producing and you should see the ones you might want to avoid whenever producing time is crucial.

With all the corrections unchecked, you might have SVRT available. Use the Profile Analyzer again and check the Intelligent SVRT tab if not, and that should give you a produce time of only a few seconds to a minute or so.


Thank you for the quick reply. Correct me if i'm wrong, i'm new to video editing but i thought that the SVRT function was to help speed up rendering when you have applied edits, titles, audio etc. I may be wrong but are you saying you can only use SVRT with just the raw video with nothing at all done to them.

My output settings are, MP4 H.264 AVC Fast Video Rendering Technology set to (hardware video encoder) SVRT is grayed out all the time even if i do no corrections to a clip whatsoever.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4882 Online
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Quote Thank you for the quick reply. Correct me if i'm wrong, i'm new to video editing but i thought that the SVRT function was to help speed up rendering when you have applied edits, titles, audio etc. I may be wrong but are you saying you can only use SVRT with just the raw video with nothing at all done to them.

No. SVRT is so fast because it copies all the unchanged frames from your source clip to the output, so trimming a video and adding a few titles ot transitions will still allow the vast majority of the project to be copied straight to the produced file. Anything that requires PD to process many or all frames (such as video speed changes and color/lighting corrections) cannot use SVRT.

Quote My output settings are, MP4 H.264 AVC Fast Video Rendering Technology set to (hardware video encoder) SVRT is grayed out all the time even if i do no corrections to a clip whatsoever.

There are some clips that PD doesn't have a suitable output profile for, and those clips will always require full processing. Same goes for producing even a bare H.264 clip to H.265. Everything has to be re-encoded.

Did you try the Profile Analyzer?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 22. 2020 13:04



YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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Munro Flyer [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 25, 2020 11:25 Messages: 7 Offline
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Quote

No. SVRT is so fast because it copies all the unchanged frames from your source clip to the output, so trimming a video and adding a few titles ot transitions will still allow the vast majority of the project to be copied straight to the produced file. Anything that requires PD to process many or all frames (such as video speed changes and color/lighting corrections) cannot use SVRT.



There are some clips that PD doesn't have a suitable output profile for, and those clips will always require full processing. Same goes for producing even a bare H.264 clip to H.265. Everything has to be re-encoded.

Did you try the Profile Analyzer?


Yeah i'm sorry but you've totally lost me there, like i say iv'e just started out in video editing and i don't understand any of that technical stuff you've said. The only thing is i don't get is how Davinci Resolve can render the exact same 3 clips with near enough the same edits and FX and done to them and the same MP3 track in about 10 minutes and PD is taking 30 minutes. I don't know what re en-encoded means.

Why can't they just make a program that you just import your clips, do your editing, FX, audio and render it in a few minutes without having to do this and do that, it seem to me as time goes on they make these editors unnecessarily too complext for no reason at all.

One of the reasons i bought PD was because lots of people saying "o'h its one of the fastest programs out there for editing and rendering" my experience so far has been the opposite in the rendering side of things.

So in a very simple explanation, what is it i need to do to get my render speeds down to less that say 10 minutes.

Thanks again and i appreciate your help.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4882 Online
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I'm afraid that we started out speaking two different languages yell

You see PD as a black box that is supposed to do whatever you tell it to and then saw a competing product apparently able to do the same thing much faster. I didn't have enough information for a ready answer and I jumped straight into troubleshooting mode, trying to explain why the edits you made would take lots of processing power without addressing why PD might take so much longer to produce. Apologies for missing the gist of your concern.

I'm not sitting with you and can't see what you see, so I tried breaking this down into discrete steps to try and figure out what was actually happening.

It's kind of like you telling your mechanic that your new sports car doesn't "go fast" and expect that they'll somehow know what's wrong; when in reality they'll have to take a detailed look under the hood to find what's working properly and what isn't.

I don't know if you're interested in doing that with PD here, but if you are we can try this a couple of different ways:

Option #1

Create a new project with only the bare clips and then produce. If SVRT is available, you should be done in a few seconds. I would also ask you to uncheck SVRT and use hardware encoding to see how long that takes, as that would be the first step in doing an apples-to-apples comparison with Resolve.

If producing the bare clips still takes many minutes, then something is seriously wrong with how PD is configured on your computer. We would want to address that before doing anything else.

If instead PD can produce the bare clips very quickly, then try adding one edit (one colour correction or speed change) at a time and then produce the project. Do not be surprised when the SVRT box becomes greyed out at some point. That is expected when the kinds of edits you've made are added to the project, and is not an indication that anything is wrong.

Produce a test clip after each new edit and see at which point the producing time take a big hit. NOTE: you actually don't need to wait for the entire thing to finish, just let it produce long enought to see what the estimated remaining time is and look for a noticeable change there.

That will tell you which particular correction (or speed change) is taking a long time to produce, which can help us figure out where the problem might lie.

This should only take a few minutes to try, and hopefully we'll have a clearer picture of what's happening.

Option #2

Share the original project by uploading it to a cloud folder on Google Drive or similar service. I and other members would be able to examine the project and test it on our machines to see how long it takes to produce and identify possible bottlenecks.

Please only do that if you're comfortable sharing your clips online!

To do this, use Pack Project Materials under PD's File menu to choose the desired output folder, either directly on the cloud server or on your local hard drive to be uploaded to the cloud later. Please send me a private message if you don't have easy access to cloud storage and would like to upload the project to a folder on my OneDrive or Google Drive account.

YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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Munro Flyer [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 25, 2020 11:25 Messages: 7 Offline
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Hi Optodata, I have ran the tests like you said and the results are surprising, just in case this helps you here are a few setting i use in Prefrence Settings. Under Hardware Acceleration i have (Enable Nvidia Cuda Technology to speed up video effect preview/render) ticked. and (Enable Hardware Decoding) ticked. Under Produce i have (Render Video Blocky Artifacts) ticked and (Reduce Video Noise when using MPEG1 MPEG2 and H.264 encoders) ticked, the other 2 under H.264 AVC are unticked.

So Test One is a 01.51 length bare clip with Hardware Video Encoder on (SVRT is grayed out) and the render time was 00.31sec

Test 2: As above plus 4sec Basic title with a 2 color gradient, render time 00.36sec

Test 3: As above plus Effect (Conjure Right) and fade, render time 00.36sec

Test 4: As above plus End title, 2 color gradient and Fade, render time 00.37sec

Test 5: As above plus Fade in/out effect on main clip, render time 01.37sec

Test 6: As above plus main clip time reduced by 41sec (done in Video Speed Designer) render time 00.43sec

Test 7: As above plus Color correction done in (ColorDirector) A little Exposure and Contrast on the + side A little Brightest, and Midtone on the - side Clarity and Vibrance on the + side and in the Saturation Channel Magenta and Green on the + side. Render Time 07.37sec

Test 8: As above plus an MP3 track form Epidemic Sound with a 8sec Fade Out, render time 07.35

As you can see there is not much difference from test 1-4 it goes up a bit in test 5 by 1 minute and in test 6 the time is down but this i probably due to the video now being 41 seconds shorter.

Now test 7 is where we see the big difference, render has shot up by 7 minutes 6 seconds, so it seems to be the color correction in color director that's slowing things down dramatically, and in test 8 sor some strange reason after adding a music track the render time goes down 2 seconds.

I hope all this helps you with my situation, i don't like anything to do with cloud BTW ( its just me i'm kinda old school) so if you want me to, i could send you all the test files for you to analyse via a private if you could tel me how to do that (not really sure)

Thanks very much again for your help.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4882 Online
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Wow, thanks very much for all the details!

Everything you've done makes perfect sense, and as I tried to explain in my first response, color corrections are brutal on producing times because of the immense amount of calculations the CPU has to do. It cannot offload those tasks to your nVidia card, so you are limited by your processor speed. Fortunately, you have a very powerful processor, but that particular set of corrections will always affect producing times.

There are several threads on the forum discussing producing times using ColorDirector vs Power Director. Generally they show that PD is quite a bit faster at producing than CD, but I think it's worth producing your test clip in CD to see if there might be an advantage there. You would then import the finished color-corrected clip into PD and would be able to produce your full project very quickly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 24. 2020 13:16



YouTube/optodata


DS365 | Win10 Pro | i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 10TB SSDs | 5K+4K HDR monitors

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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Munro Flyer [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Mar 25, 2020 11:25 Messages: 7 Offline
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Thanks for your reply, yeah i think i'm gonna try that test, do everything in CD then inport it into PD and see what happens. Yep i have been reading all the posts in the CD section of the forum and it seems a number of other people are having very similar issues with CD lets hope the tech guy's come up with an upgrade that improves CD

I'll do that test today in CD

Thanks again.
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