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Image corruption when use Layer module.
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Working with cyberlink support for few days and I want to check with community if someone else experiences the same problem.

When I try to use layer function even with default images coming with latest Photodirector at the moment when I move to Layers tab, after initial loading of the image I get dark areas of the image corrupted. Corruption is in the way of pixelization and lost of colors and color gradation.

At the moment when I go back to Adjustments or any other tab image again appears good! And If I export image from Adjustments it is exported as it is without degradation. If I export same image from Layers panel it get corrupted dark areas.

What I have tried so far is to reinstall Photodirector and all other cyberlink software several times. With deleting all settings.
Tried to install application on different volume ( I have dual boot Win 10 PC ) where it was never installed before.
Also tried to use internal Intel graphic adapter om my i5 CPU instead of my default Graphic adapter Radeon RX 580.
Both windows versions are on different Windows update level 1803 and 1903.

Manually cleaned all cash files and also tried to import files directly in Layers by creating new layer project.

Tried with RAW and jpeg files even with default Photodirector files.

Tried with different options in settings -> file handling - preview cache and photo editing cache.

So far I am getting the same result.

I will have a few more ideas to try but do not have a lot of free time for experiments.

To amplify the effect I am creating darker images by lowering Exposure. But you can see degradation even without this step if you have enough dark areas in the image.

Did not tried to work over image with Layers and then go back to Adjustments and export it from there. Maybe it will work that way. But anyway issue persist.

Please check attached examples and share your experience.

Google drive link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eVr9kpexepnKFIw9G27vIRQFE29_vRn1

You can find all gradients to test them from google drive. In folder Gradients for test.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Aug 10. 2019 03:19

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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Second example:
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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More examples. This image is not touched just loaded and exported from Adjustment and Layers.

After making changes to an image in Layers I am not able to go back to Adjustment and work with same picture. I suggested that I need to try this but it does not work this way.

Wanted to upload exported files seems to be too big for this platform. 1-2 MB.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3692 Offline
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It might help to see a screen recording showing what you see when you try to edit your images. You can post it on YouTube (unlisted, so only people with the link you supply can see it), or upload it and any exported images to a cloud folder on OneDrive, DropBox, Google Drive, etc. for sharing here.

It would also help if you followed the steps in the Read Me Before Posting sticky thread and attached the DxDiag results and the full version number of PhD. If you're already working with tech support, you should have those ready to go

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Aug 04. 2019 23:09


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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optodata
Quote ......................


I have screen recording and all the data but issue is so simple to reproduce and screenshots above show exactly what I see. Did not notice it until tried to use layers.

I am 365 subscriber so I am using the latest version. Please find it in attached image below.

How to recreate it. Open Photodirector, open single image with dark areas is preferred, if no enough dark areas just lower exposure. Then just go to Layers tab. Now zoom in dark areas of the image and if you have it you will see it. When I toggle between Adjustments and Layers tab I see how degradation appears in Layers and disappears in Adjustment.

Very simple, no special workflow and no special settings just toggle between tabs.

From what I see there is some default processing over the image when it is opened in Layers panel. And in my version this cut dark areas and make them look very posterized.

I have tried on different Windows installation with different graphic adapter as advised above.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 04. 2019 23:31

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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Uploaded all examples and Screen Recording to google drive.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eVr9kpexepnKFIw9G27vIRQFE29_vRn1

Also will add this link to my first post.

Please advise with your experience from using Layers module. Also screenshots and screenrecording will help.

Also uploaded saved .phi ( layers ) please open them and advise what you see.

Also you can provide your .phi ( if layers are fine with your version ) so I can open them and see if I will get corruption or they will be fine.

Please advise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 05. 2019 00:04

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3692 Offline
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Got it. I had just made a screen recording that didn't seem to show the issue, but after reading your description of zooming in on a dark area, I now see it. It also happens whether I use the UHD Graphics 630 GPU built in to my i9 or if I use my nVidia card, so it isn't a driver issue since you have an AMD card.

In video, there's a color space issue that looks almost exactly like this when the source clip and display device use different levels (limited vs. full). This article might give you a sense of what I mean, but it doesn't necessarily tell us if that's what's going on here, or how any of us end users could fix it.

I also see that once the image is opened in Layers, the artifacts are present when exported. That's pretty bad.

In PhD7, there is no image degredation when switching between Adjustment and Layers, so this does appear to be an issue with PhD10. Hopefully support will confirm this and the powers that be will authorize a patch to fix it.
youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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I found this issue when working on some night shots. And wanted to experiment with Layers.

With bright images you realy need to pixel peep to see it. But with night shots it comes out very easy. All low light background and bokeh balls get corrupted realy bad.
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Anyone else to share experience with Layers?

After last reply before 4 days I do not have update from support.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3692 Offline
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Quote Anyone else to share experience with Layers?

After last reply before 4 days I do not have update from support.

It sometimes takes them a while to respond, depending on how much work they need to do to investigate the issue and how many other customers they're helping.

You've clearly found an issue here, and I don't see any need to see if other people have been affected. They have if they use Layers in PhD10, but if there aren't any significant areas with subtle black shades in the images other people working with, the problem is likely to go unnoticed.

If Support has enough info at this point, they may be waiting to hear back from the engineer assigned to the issue as to whether the cause of the issue has been identified, and also to hear whether a decision has been made for issuing a hotfix or rolling the update into the next scheduled patch.
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Today support replyed and from this reply I see they could not understand what is the issue. So please if you don have it done yet open support ticket for same issue.

Also this is why I will like more people to chek if they have same issue and if they have it to open support tickets.

This is the exact reply that I get:
"With reference to your query, please be advised that by further checking on the screenshots you provided, the photo preview area size and aspect ratio in the Adjustment and Layers modules are different because the Layers module has side tool panels additionally.
Therefore, the "preview areas" are in different shapes (different aspect ratios) between Adjustment and Layers modules, and cropped different areas on the photos actually for preview when you selected to preview photo in 100% ratio (no size scaling or reduction on the preview).
Because the preview areas aspect ratio are not the same, it might cause visual illusion that the previews are distorted when viewing them directly.
The shape of the object on the photo are not distorted actually per our further checking.
You are advised to crop the exactly identical area from the photo preview screenshots in 1:1 square for comparison between Adjustment and Layers module's preview. The preview is not distorted."

I do not know, maybe my english is too bad....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Aug 07. 2019 22:24

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3692 Offline
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Oh, that's unfortunate. Remember that I had a hard time seeing the issue until I re-read all your notes and looked carefully at your attached pics, and it seems like the most important info got lost in translation once support reviewed this thread

I've found that I get the best results when I can give clear images and exact steps on how to reproduce the problem, so I've now done that here.

If you download the attached image, you'll see that it is a gray gradient with 7 diagonal stripes when viewed from the Library, Adjustment and Edit tabs (although stripes 1 and 2 may be blended together).

However, when you change to Layers view, stripes 2+3, 4+5 and 6+7 blend together, which is a completely different image:



I've also sent a PM to PIX who's the moderator of the PhD forum, and hopefully he can get support to look at the new image and understand what the problem actually is.
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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I get exact same effect or deffect. And when export image from Layers it is exported with same deffect as already seen from all other examples. So it is not just preview deffect but it get baked to final image.
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Thank you optodata, for your PM & ongoing support for PPCyber.

I previously investigated the reported issue, but was unable to come up with any conclusive advice. Once I saw that optodata was on the case, & then that it had been referred to technical support, my posting would have been superfluous.

PPCyber: optodata is correct about posting samples to illustrate the problem, so your screen capture and screenshots will help find the cause of the issue.

optodata: Even with your grey gradient image, what I'm seeing here is slightly different in the Layers module. Before posting anything further I'll re-calibrate my monitor to ensure accurate results.

You can be assured that, once we can clarify the problem further, I'll forward it to the team at CL for their attention.

PIX PhD CDR ADR DZ MVL PP Forum Moderator
PIX YouTube channel
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Hi Pix,

You can replicate the issue with every possible picture. If it does not have enough dark areas just lower the exposure. Then switch to Layers tab and voila. If you have night shots it just become very clear.

If you are unable to replicate the issue this will become more interesting.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3692 Offline
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Quote optodata: Even with your grey gradient image, what I'm seeing here is slightly different in the Layers module. Before posting anything further I'll re-calibrate my monitor to ensure accurate results.

That's a good idea. While I saw the orginal artifact regardless of whether I was using my Intel or nVidia GPU, it's possible that video drivers and monitors also play a role.

I went with something that showed a clear change to help support understand the issue, but it may actually still be too subtle.

I tried a dozen different gradient images I found online before creating that one with just 7 shades from a screenshot of title backdrop in PD. I imagine there are other images or gradients that may highlight the issue better.

Here's another one that may be more obvious, although the effects are challenging to put into words - sharper edges to the rings, and a new maroon halo midway out?

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youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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This looks exactly as gradient problems seen between 8bit and 10bit colors. But in our case seems like jpg vs giff colors. And if you try to apply any color boost adjusments in Layers it become real mess.
This also looks like default artistic filter for posterization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posterization

jpg vs giff colors

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Aug 08. 2019 03:03

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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Same picture as previous one taken from wikipedia but with lowered exposure in Adjustments, then rised exposure in Layers and exported from Layers to attached file.



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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Aug 08. 2019 03:15

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Hello again optodata & PPCyber,

Like both of you, I've spent a mountain of time switching between the Layers & Adjustment modules, observing the differences in display of particular photos.

Yes, there's certainly a difference in how images are displayed in Layers, compared to other parts of PhD, but my observation is that the difference is not consistent across different hardware setups.

To partially illustrate, & to try to crystallise what the issue is, I prepared a screen capture showing what I'm observing here. The monitor was calibrated only yesterday & (for this capture) display resolution was set to 3840x2160. The Camtasia capture was done in the same resolution. It's uploaded at 2160p.



PPCyber: even making extreme exposure & contrast adjustments, I cannot replicate the "corruption" you initially reported.

optodata: you can see in the capture that the differences with your grey strip gradient image are not as marked as you've seen.

I completely agree that there is some sort of issue with preview quality in the Layers module, & I'm absolutely not attempting to minimise whatever the issue is.

PIX PhD CDR ADR DZ MVL PP Forum Moderator
PIX YouTube channel
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PPCyber [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Jan 28, 2019 03:31 Messages: 29 Offline
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Hi Pix I think that monitor calibration have nothing to do with this problem. As you can see from the sample picture above snake get so much corrupted and smooth gradient in the shadow is totally lost. Just dark areas below some level are cut off.

I reviewed your screen recording but it seems to be very pixelated from youtube compression and fine detail in dark areas and color gradient is lost from the start.
But most of the time you look at the bright side of the image and did not compare well with adjustment tab. Let's say open dark image, look at dark areas with some details in it then do not move but just switch to layers module. Then again switch to adjustment module.

It could be hardware related but I tried on two separate windows installations with ATI(AMD) adapter and with my integrated Intel graphic adapter. Same to Optodata and but he tried with his Nvidia and Intel adapters.
So to me it looks much more like a software problem. Could you please advise what is your Windows version and PhotoDirector version?

I will do one screen recording with snake picture above to see how easy it is to notice the issue. And it stays with export not just in the preview!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Aug 09. 2019 07:27

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