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SVRT disabled when output disk space is low
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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EDIT: This is a long thread, and the problem has been better documented and clarified in this later post.

I had separately produced two halves of my daughter's lacrosse game in 4k since they took 5-6 hours each with the intensive edits I'd made, and I went to join them using SVRT before uploading the finshed video to YouTube.

Even though I had verified that the profile I was using was supported by SVRT and I had a solid green on the SVRT track with those two clips on the timeline, the SVRT button was grayed out on the Produce page. Each clip was OK when it was by itself on the timeline, but even adding a second copy of the same clip ended up with a disabled SVRT button.

After some experimenting, I found that the problem only appears when the total timeline content exceeds a specific duration: for my two 4k 60p H.264 75Mbps MP4 clips produced by PD17, that max timeline duration is 43:00:25





I did some more testing, and it appears that the max duration is strongly correlated to the clip's bitrate - as in the higher the bitrate, the earlier on the timeline SVRT disappears when trying to produce (dashes at the end indicate approximate location, not verified to the frame level):

4k 60p H.264 MP4 75Mbps 0:43:00:25
4k 30p H.265 MP4 62Mbps 0:52:03:--
HD 60p H.264 MP4 40Mbps 1:18:05:24
HD 60p H.264 M2TS 28Mbps 2:11:53:--

I have created this packed project with a 30 sec sample of one of the 4k produced clips from my lacrosse video (it's 277MB in size), and if anyone wants to test this out, here are the simple steps:


  1. Download and open the test project

  2. Turn on SVRT track (Alt+S) and verify a full green bar

  3. Go to the Produce screen, and run Profile Analyzer

  4. Accept Intelligent SVRT profile (any if mmore than one appears)

  5. SVRT button should be grayed out (not selectable)

  6. Click on Edit, and delete the tiny 2-frame section at the end of the timeline

  7. Return to the Produce screen and verify that SVRT is now available



I would very much appreciate hearing back from anyone after testing this out, along with any other info on various clips and bitrates on other clips you may have tested.

BTW I was able to join my two 13GB clips (47 min duration) in barely 1 minute using SVRT PD14.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 19. 2019 17:56


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 4764 Offline
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The svrt issues that I posted on PD17 are still there and acknowledged from the last support response in which I have already posted earlier. SVRT can still indicate 100% when none is available. This is not the case with PD14. I do remember in continuous capture there seem to be a limit of about 45 min. (two 4 GB files). A third continuous file will be cpu rendered for 1080p60 28 Mbps.

This test may not be the correct way to determine the 2160p60 75 Mbps video svrt limit as I have exceeded the 2 hour duration. I do recall having a 5 hour shoot of 1060p60 videos on the timeline before any cutting or editing and svrt workload reduced is 100% when using the earlier versions of PD.

I would like others to perform this test and to hear from others about svrt issues. No other users seem to speak up.
 Filename
Opto4k 2.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Produced file properties.
 Filesize
456 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
3 time(s)
 Filename
Opto4k 3.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Profile analyzer Workload reduced is 100%
 Filesize
392 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
4 time(s)
 Filename
Opto4k 1.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
2hr 9min produced in 25 min.
 Filesize
389 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
2 time(s)
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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 4764 Offline
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The 2 frame at the end of timeline was removed and produced for the last two screenshots. It looks like the 4k video included in this project was of low resolution produced to 4k. No shadow files was used or necessary here. VLC plays all the files just fine.

Need others to chime in on this issue.
 Filename
Opto 6.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Again the produced 4k video plays fine in VLC.
 Filesize
473 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
2 time(s)
 Filename
Opto4k 4.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Produced 4k video plays fine in VLC.
 Filesize
560 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
1 time(s)
 Filename
Opto 5.jpg
[Disk]
 Description
Removed the 2 frames in the step 6 and produced.
 Filesize
385 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
2 time(s)
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote The 2 frame at the end of timeline was removed and produced for the last two screenshots. It looks like the 4k video included in this project was of low resolution produced to 4k. No shadow files was used or necessary here. VLC plays all the files just fine.

Need others to chime in on this issue.

Yes, the sample clip is from a stationary 4k 60p Yi Action+ Camera that I had zoomed in 4x on the timeline and used keyframes to pan to follow the action on the field. If I produce the clip to HD it's noticeably pixelated, but if I have PD upscale it and produce to 4k, it's cleaner (at least when viewed on an HD monitor).

I knew there were other SVRT issues, but this one had the indicators green and no SVRT button which seemed like it might be a different issue.

In fact, I've now found that the duration limit which was repeatable in my earlier testing has now changed. Believe it or not, the point when SVRT gets disabled also depends on how much space is available on the destination drive. Now it looks like those limits in my earlier table were based on the specifics of those clips PLUS the limited space on one of my SSDs. When I change the output folder to a drive with more space, SVRT is available even with longer timeline content.

Why would PD disable SVRT for long clips? It actually might not be a bug if SVRT uses signficant scratch disk space and the combination of expected file size plus required headroom is insufficient. nVidia and QuickSync produce options aren't affected by this, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 19. 2019 01:38


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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PowerDirector Moderator
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 741 Offline
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Quote

I would very much appreciate hearing back from anyone after testing this out, along with any other info on various clips and bitrates on other clips you may have tested.



Hi,

Disc limitation - My preliminary info is that there is no time limit designed for SVRT.

I downloaded your project, launched PDR17.0.2514.2 and opened your test project.

Followed your steps :-

Turn on SVRT track (Alt+S) and verify a full green bar - correct

Go to the Produce screen, and run Profile Analyzer - correct

Accept Intelligent SVRT profile (any if mmore than one appears) - correct

SVRT button should be grayed out (not selectable) - on my system SVRT is now active and checked

So on my system all works as intended up to this point.

Produced in 14:15
Total file size 22.62Gb

You can check out the system DxDiag for anything that strikes you - I housekeep this system on the principle that "if it ain't broke......" so it might be more like a typical user system (except for the multiple drives!)

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator
 Filename
ModTestSys DxDiag.txt
[Disk]
 Description
 Filesize
85 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
117 time(s)


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tomasc [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Joined: Aug 25, 2011 12:33 Messages: 4764 Offline
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100 Gb free hard disc space is recommended back in PD9 which is repeated in the forums for older PD version when BD was popular. Almost all my BD productions involve SVRT. My drive C had 0 GB free. See this FAQ: https://www.cyberlink.com/support/product-faq-content.do?id=9968&prodId=4&prodVerId=-1&CategoryId=-1&keyword=100 gb .

I believe the minimum spec for PD13 and later is 7 GB free and in PD17 there is no stated requirement in the minimum spec.

Optodata – Please let us how many GB free was on that SSD when you try to produce that 22.62 GB file. This will allow us to determine or calculate the free space overhead required with a SVRT production.

PM – The DxDiag.txt has the cpu removed. Is this edited to show that the cpu is not important in a svrt production?
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote SVRT button should be grayed out (not selectable) - on my system SVRT is now active and checked

So on my system all works as intended up to this point.

Produced in 14:15
Total file size 22.62Gb

You can check out the system DxDiag for anything that strikes you - I housekeep this system on the principle that "if it ain't broke......" so it might be more like a typical user system (except for the multiple drives!)

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

Thanks for the feedback and the DxDiag. I'm not sure why you're running with a year old nVidia driver (390.77), but I don't think that has any bearing on the SVRT issue.

I'm wondering what would happen if you set the output folder in Preferences to be on your G: drive, then closed and reopened PD and checked whether SVRT was available from the Produce screen again. You don't have to produce the project, but since there's only 12.3GB of free space on that drive, I think you'll see the selection button be disabled.
youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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PowerDirector Moderator
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 741 Offline
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Quote

Thanks for the feedback and the DxDiag. I'm not sure why you're running with a year old nVidia driver (390.77), but I don't think that has any bearing on the SVRT issue.

I'm wondering what would happen if you set the output folder in Preferences to be on your G: drive, then closed and reopened PD and checked whether SVRT was available from the Produce screen again. You don't have to produce the project, but since there's only 12.3GB of free space on that drive, I think you'll see the selection button be disabled.


I'm a bit old fashioned - if there is a clear driver related issue then, fine, an update is required. However, I am wary of chasing the "unknown" benefits of each new driver release, when the system seems to be working fine. There are no gameplays on this system, only editing and general use so....

Changing the output destination to G: does indeed result in SVRT becoming unavailable.

Apparently size does matter?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 19. 2019 16:12


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PowerDirector Moderator
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan Joined: Oct 18, 2016 00:25 Messages: 741 Offline
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Quote

PM – The DxDiag.txt has the cpu removed. Is this edited to show that the cpu is not important in a svrt production?


No idea how that happened, never even noticed!

Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor (6 CPUs), ~2.8GHz

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator


For customer support related issues, please contact:
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote Changing the output destination to G: does indeed result in SVRT becoming unavailable.

Apparently size does matter?

Cheers
PowerDirector Moderator

In the real world? Yeah I think it does

Quote
Optodata – Please let us how many GB free was on that SSD when you try to produce that 22.62 GB file. This will allow us to determine or calculate the free space overhead required with a SVRT production.

That's difficult because it's an active drive and there is less available space now than when I first ran my tests, and that's clearly what cause the "disabling duration" to shift downward.

Here are the current numbers:



And the threshold with the packed project right now:



It's now clear that this issue is solely caused by the destination drive having insufficient space to produce the current project. No user calculations are needed to predict when this will occur, as PD does that automatically when opening the produce screen.

However, SVRT shouldn't be disabled at all at this point. If I try to produce when SVRT is disabled, the insufficient disk space warrning pops up as expected, and if SVRT had been active yesterday I would have simply changed the output folder after getting the disk warning and went on my way.

But because SVRT was suddenly unavailable despite all the prep work to ensure that I could join my two huge halves, I lost a few hours trying to figure out what was happening and then documenting all of this.

I have filed file support request CS002002253, and I've asked the the behavior be changed to either keep SVRT available until Start is pressed (just like Fast video rendering and HW/QuickSync options are), or that the insufficient space dialog box comes up as soon as PD detects that the destination disk isn't large enough to support producing with current profile. Either one would give the user more realistic feedback.

I've also changed the title of this post to better reflect the issue. Thanks for your help!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 19. 2019 18:11


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 3986 Offline
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It does give the user very realistic feedback. if you simply look at your last post pics it very clearly tells you "Time available:" 00:19:19, it's that simple. That time will float as SVRT profiles are changed to reflect actuals.

Jeff
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 4227 Online
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Quote It does give the user very realistic feedback. if you simply look at your last post pics it very clearly tells you "Time available:" 00:19:19, it's that simple. That time will float as SVRT profiles are changed to reflect actuals.

Jeff

I disagree. In both screen captures, the remaining time and space are 100% identical, but in one SVRT is available while in the other it is not.

This particular feedback is also inconsistent with the existing disk space messaging: For example, there is no disabling of the Start button or fast video rendering or HW/QuickSync when there isn't enough room on the destination drive, so why is SVRT excepted?

The insufficient disk space warning only pops up when you commit to a profile and destination by clicking Start, and in my opinion, that should be the case with SVRT as well. Another option would be for the insufficient disc message to pop up right away, whenever the current profile would require more space than is on the destination drive.

Remember that you also now have awareness of the dependency of SVRT on remaining disk space, so it's easy to see the connection. Without that knowledge, I doubt that most people would think to double check the remaining space if the only thing out of the ordinary was that SVRT is unavailable.

Meanwhile, here is Cyberlink's response to my support request: With reference to your query, we do appreciate for reporting the issue. We are able to reproduce the concern in our lab and the corresponding department would consider your suggestion to display message when the disc space is insufficient.
youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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JL_JL [Avatar]
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: Arizona, USA Joined: Oct 01, 2006 20:01 Messages: 3986 Offline
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Quote I disagree. In both screen captures, the remaining time and space are 100% identical, but in one SVRT is available while in the other it is not.

Simply because it's not accurate to the frame level, and neither is the implimentated disc space warning and neither can either be. The difference between ~40 frames is irrelevant.

Jeff
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