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PD16 Too Slow to Use
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KobayashiMaru [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Nov 08, 2017 13:39 Messages: 3 Offline
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Good day all.

I have a laptop with the following specs:


  • Win10 64-bit

  • i7-5500@2.4 GHz

  • 16GB RAM

  • NVIDIA GeForce 940M with dedicated 4GB (apparently unused due to lack of PD16 support)

  • Integrated Intel HD Graphics with 128MB dedicated + 8GB shared



Although I run some pretty intensive videogames without framerate issues or stuttering, PD16 is unusable. I stopped trying to run full motion video previews a while ago because it was showing just a few frames at a time, even at sub-HD levels. It still takes about 10 seconds for the preview image to refresh after clicking to a new spot on the timeline.

I have tried all variations of the available hardware accelleration options. I have tried real time and non-real time preview options at various quality settings.

I have an A+ computer certification, and while that doesn't make me a genius or anything, it means I do kind of know my way around a PC.

I am simply at a loss as to what the problem might be or how to get PD16 to work for me.

I welcome your suggestions and appreciate your help DxDiag is attached.
 Filename
DxDiag.txt
[Disk]
 Description
DxDiag
 Filesize
85 Kbytes
 Downloaded:
90 time(s)
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3590 Online
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Thank you very much for starting off with the DxDIag results! There are a couple of issues there that you can address first, and then can download and install the latest PD16 patch.

You do have the latest nVidia driver, and you're right that PD doesn't use your 940M because it doesn't have the hardware needed for video encoding.

Your Intel iGPU will do a nice job, but the video driver is over a year old (June 2017)! Please visit the Intel website and get the latest driver, which I believe is v15.40.41.5058.

Also, the Windows Error Report (WER) list at the end of the file shows several Windows Update crashes. PD is sometimes affected when Windows system files are damaged, so you can try running sfc /scannow from an admin-level cmd prompt and see if it can find/repair any corrupt system files.

An additional step would be to run dism /online /cleanup-image /scanhealth from the same window. As I'm sure you know, you may need to run each more than once if it finds errors but can't fix all of them on the first pass.

Next would be to download and install the v3939 patch from the sticky post at the top of the PD16 forum. You won't need the beta patch.

Try out these things and post back what you find. These steps are intended to give PD the best operating environment, and if you still end up with editing delays and slow previewing (usually while editing HD/2k/4k clips especially on multiple tracks), there are additional steps to speed things up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 05. 2018 14:24


youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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KobayashiMaru [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Nov 08, 2017 13:39 Messages: 3 Offline
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So here's the thing:

About 6 weeks ago, I got a new 1TB SSD, added 8GB of RAM, and did a clean install of Win10. I did not expect to have system issues when I posted my question, but your excellent response was a good reminder to not overlook the obvious.

(1) On the plus side, SFC and DISM scans came back clean. Since I regularly do a manual check for updates as a precautionary backstop for Windows' automatic installation of updates, I was surprised about those errors in the DXdiag report. Long story short: Windows had not updated since October 6, I ran the Windows Update troubleshooter, some things were repaired, and some updates were installed.

(2) My Integrated Intel GPU was not permitted to install the most recent official update due to aggressive restrictions by the maker of my laptop, Acer. I bypassed that restriction by downloading the zipped version of the most recent driver, navigating to Device Manager, and manually installing the update through the "Have Disk..." dialogue. No negative repercussions yet.

Although there's not much of a performance change overall, I think I've got everything under the hood running a bit more smoothly.

I installed the PD16 patch (which was *not* discovered and installed by PD's "Check for updates automatically" option).

PD16 loads considerably faster, and when I preview my timeline at High quality, the pictures actually move! It is usable.

Currently, my setup has the following settings in an effort to improve performance:

  • Both Hardware Accelleration checkboxes are marked

  • Preview quality is High and real-time

  • Audio waveforms in the timeline are disabled

  • Video snapshots in the timeline are disabled



I look forward to any additional suggestions and recommendations you can offer.

Thank you so much for the very straightforward advice in your initial response and for responding so quickly to my SOS.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 05. 2018 18:19

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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3590 Online
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Nice job on the systems end!

Now that things are solid and up-to-date with Win10 and the hardware, let's focus on PD. I'm really glad it's at least usable now, and the settings you mentioned look good.

I don't think you mentioned what kind of clips you're working with, but I assume they're at least HD or higher. If so, you'll get the biggest impact by using shadow files.

I spell everything out in more detail in this thread. Read through the whole post, even though the OP seemed to be having other problems with PD and apparently gave up halfway through

Remember that shadow files require a one-time conversion which does take time upfront, but once they're ready, you'll have smooth sailing when editing. There are a couple other ideas in that thread you may want to pursue, so maybe start with shadow files and see how that works.

Feel free to post back with your progress or with any other questions!
youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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KobayashiMaru [Avatar]
Newbie Private Message Joined: Nov 08, 2017 13:39 Messages: 3 Offline
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Thanks again for your response and your help. This response is unfortunately just a venting session without possible resolution, so feel free to browse and move on.

The project I am currently working on is not a conventional news piece or narrative where you have a few limited takes to choose from and some B-roll. The project I am working on involves hundreds--if not thousands--of clips. The Media Library wouldn't even let me import everything I actually wanted to include.

So, I let PD16 run overnight so it could make Shadow Copies of the hundreds of items in my media library. "Shadow Copies" seems to mean "file duplication and conversion" and as a result, I woke up this morning to a full hard drive and lots of prompts telling me I need more space if I want to continue making shadow copies.

The Media Library has definitely been one of my least favorite aspects of PD16. The program seems to put far too much effort into prepping material that *might* get used, when really, I just want somewhere to browse through my material prior to putting it into the timeline. Similarly, it doesn't seem helpful to make shadow copies until clips are brought into the timeline. That's the workhorse. That's where I really need the extra processing. That's where I want things to run smoothly.

I also noticed that shadow copies don't seem to get deleted once a file is removed from the Media Library.

A few more options regarding Shadow Copies would make all the difference: (1) create shadow copies for items in timeline only and (2) delete shadow copies once files are removed from Media Library.

Alas, this is not the case. There is very little help and consideration given to the functionality of the Media Library in my opinion. It's the starting point for our projects, but it seems like the developpers are primarily concerned with how it affects the functionality of the rest of their program rather than how we need to use it.

Sadly, I find that editing on my iPad is a much smoother experience.
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optodata
Senior Contributor Private Message Location: California, USA Joined: Sep 16, 2011 16:04 Messages: 3590 Online
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I'm sorry to hear you've had a rough experience. I've never tried to load hundreds or thousands of clips for a project (maybe a hundred or so, max) but I'm not surprised that PD has difficulty with that many clips.

If you're willing to change your workflow a little, I'm confident that you'll be able to do everything you want to accomplish in PD. If you're so frustrated that you need to move on, that's completely understandable.

While you (and/or PD) are having trouble in a couple different areas, there's actually a single solution/workaround that will address all of these issues (assuming that you want to continue with PD), and the answer is simply: Don't try to do your entire gigantic, complex project at once.

The first step would be to mentally break your project into sections, maybe like chapters or maybe like scenes, whatever makes sense to you. I can't imagine that you'd need more than a few dozen clips for each section, so pick one to start with, create a new project, and then load all of the related clips into the Media Library with the shadow files checkbox enabled.

While PD is creating the shadow files, you'll see a yellow tag in the lower right corner of each clip in the Media Library (unless you've set it to display Details. For this step, you should set it to displaying thumbnails of any size). Once every clip shows a green tag, you're ready to go.

You can actually do all kinds of basic editing during the conversion process, so feel free to place the clips on the timeline and maybe even trim them upfront.

PD actually does convert all clips in the media library, regardless of whether they're ever put on the timeinle or not. Likewise, removing them from the timeline doesn't have any impact on keeping or deleting the shadow files. Since PD couldn't process all the files you'd imported due to running out of disk space, I think you saw a mix of files with and without shadow files, some of which were on the timeline.

By default, PD will keep shadow files for 30 days, but in your case you'd definitely want to manually delete them as you complete each section to make room for the next round. Once you've got each section ready, produce the clip, then create a new project for the next section and continue.

If you're willing to focus on one section at a time, you won't run into any programmatical or storage limitations, and you'll end up with a series of fully produced sections that you can bring together for your final production.

You can also combine produced sections at any point, like combine the first ten and produce them to a bigger pre-final clip. You could add each newly produced section to that video as you go along, or produce any number of sections in whatever sequence you see fit. The final step would simply be to load all your produced sectional clips onto the timeline, add whatever transitions you want between them, then produce it.

Although it may seem like it's more work to create dozens of sectional projects, I think it actually gives you more control and also more time to think about what you want each section to convey to your audience. Overall I think it's a great exercise in patience, long-term focus and goal setting, but the main thing is that PD will be able to do everything you want under these conditions.

Hopefully this approach will work for you, and I wish you well in this endeavor, no matter how you decide to move forward.
youtube/optodata

DS365 | Win10 Pro | 8 Core/16T i9-9900K (4.8GHz) | RTX 2070 | 32GB RAM | 6TB SSDs

Canon Vixia GX10 (4K 60p) | HF G30 (HD 60p) | HF S200 (HD 30p) | Yi Action+ 4K | 360Fly 4K 360°
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