Shooting at 60 fps and rendering at 30 fps looks terrible

Kevinstudent

Newbie Joined: Jun 08, 2016 02:38 Messages: 5 Offline

Solved by

Apr 20, 2018 16:58

Hello,

I generally shoot at 60 fps, as this allows me to use slow motion for my b roll. I need my camera at the ready, so I can't be switching back and forth from 60 fps to 30 fps. The problem is, when I am rendering in 30 fps, my footage always looks terrible - there are tons of blocky artifacts and the detail get stripped and everything looks fuzzy instead of sharp and distinct.

For rendering, I use:
-H.264 option
-1920 x 1080 (same as source)
-rendering at 30 fps (source is 59.97)
-11-15k bitrate (I've been experimenting, but no difference seen)
-reduce blocky artifacts (intel SSE4 optimized)
-reduce video noise when using h.264 encoders
-High Profile type
- CABAC
-Quality mode
-use deblocking
-use dynamic GOP

Can someone give me some advice what might be going on? The videos I've shot are crisp, but Powerdirector rendering always makes them look like garbage. I know other people (probably using other programs) are making content with 120 fps video with speed ups and slow downs that looks smooth and crystal clear being output at 30 and 24 fps, so I'm not sure why mine isn't working.

Thank you!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 20. 2018 17:08

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Apr 20, 2018 20:58

My sugestion
Do the 60P edition
Produce using Intelligent SVRT if possible.
If SVRT works well, in addition to fast your video remains as the original, rendering is applied only where it has an effect.
If SVRT is not possible, create a profile similar to the original video.
In the Timeline right-click, on the video select Properties, use the values for the new profile.
If necessary, Produce this video, 60 (P) fps to 30 (P) fps.
If it still is not good, do it in other software and compare it.
Note 60P fullhd, you may need to enable shadow files for editing to be smoother.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 20. 2018 21:03

AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate

Kevinstudent

Newbie Joined: Jun 08, 2016 02:38 Messages: 5 Offline

Apr 20, 2018 23:11

Thank you! Unfortunately, I add some color adjustments, so the SVRT won't work. The 30 fps is preferrable for uploading, since it is a small file size. Also, if I use 60 FPS, then the slow motion sections won't run smoothly (since halving their speed won't work properly. I'm going to try a couple of things - render in 60 FPS with color correction, then try and use handbrake to chop the frames out. Then I'll try doing it SVRT, chopping the frames out in handbrake, then rendering again with color correction. This is all kind of a ridiculous run around, but if I can get it to work, I'll be happy. For right now, using 60 FPS footage in a 30 FPS render makes it almost unwatchable.

RobertJ/OZ

Senior Contributor Location: Melbourne Australia Joined: Aug 14, 2006 02:26 Messages: 1209 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 01:50

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but surely if you shoot at 60 fps and then render at 30 fps, then every other frame will be dropped during rendering, result, very jerky video.
Have you tried converting your video to JPG images, using a free converter like "Free Video to JPG Converter" when converted you can now change the length of each frame to obtain the required slow motion effect, result, smooth as silk Intel i7 930, 16GB ram, Radeon HD 5770 1Gb,Ver. 14.12 Win7 64 bit
Intel i7 7700 HQ, 16 GB ram Nvidia GTX 1050Ti 4GB dual drives 1 TB SSD + 1 TB HDD Win 10

PDtoots

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 09:08

Thank you! Unfortunately, I add some color adjustments, so the SVRT won't work. The 30 fps is preferrable for uploading, since it is a small file size. Also, if I use 60 FPS, then the slow motion sections won't run smoothly (since halving their speed won't work properly

I do not understand 60 fps gets worse than 30 fps for slow motion effect.
Here is the opposite currently PD16 is set to 60 fps for editing even for videos 30 fps, improves for slow motion effect, also the quality of other effects applied to the video.
In general I produce fullHD (P) 59.94 fps 20 Kbps.
Then convert to another standard usually MPEG2 (P) 29.97 fps to create DVD in this case I use another application to create DVD, because PD converts the video to interlaced and worsens the image as I see it.
To reduce file size sent to Youtube I prefer to reduce bit rate and maintain 60 fps. I have used 10 Kbps AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate

Kevinstudent

Newbie Joined: Jun 08, 2016 02:38 Messages: 5 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 17:09

Quote Now, correct me if I am wrong, but surely if you shoot at 60 fps and then render at 30 fps, then every other frame will be dropped during rendering, result, very jerky video.
Have you tried converting your video to JPG images, using a free converter like "Free Video to JPG Converter" when converted you can now change the length of each frame to obtain the required slow motion effect, result, smooth as silk

re shooting at 60 and rendering at 30 - I feel like PD doesn't drop the frame, it just blends them and does an absolutely terrible job of doing that.

My slow motion stuff looks fine. In fact, slowing 60 fps footage by 50% in PD looks buttery smooth. The problem is that the rest of the stuff that is not slowed down and rendered at 30 fps looks like absolute trash. There are no issues with stuttering. Stuttering was never an issue with how I've been doing things.

Kevinstudent

Newbie Joined: Jun 08, 2016 02:38 Messages: 5 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 17:14

Quote

Thank you! Unfortunately, I add some color adjustments, so the SVRT won't work. The 30 fps is preferrable for uploading, since it is a small file size. Also, if I use 60 FPS, then the slow motion sections won't run smoothly (since halving their speed won't work properly

I do not understand 60 fps gets worse than 30 fps for slow motion effect.
Here is the opposite currently PD16 is set to 60 fps for editing even for videos 30 fps, improves for slow motion effect, also the quality of other effects applied to the video.
In general I produce fullHD (P) 59.94 fps 20 Kbps.
Then convert to another standard usually MPEG2 (P) 29.97 fps to create DVD in this case I use another application to create DVD, because PD converts the video to interlaced and worsens the image as I see it.
To reduce file size sent to Youtube I prefer to reduce bit rate and maintain 60 fps. I have used 10 Kbps

If you take 60 fps footage and slow it by half and render at 60 fps, you will certainly have jerky footage, would you not?

I can't be doing 60 fps uploads - I need them at 30 fps.

Are you recommending that my timeline should be at 60 fps despite rendering at 30 fps? Everywhere I've seen recommends editing at the same FPS that you are rendering - which makes sense because there is the potential to be making cuts and adjustments that don't fall in the proper rendered time codes.

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 17:36

You said "11-15k bitrate"??? Isn't that in Mbps?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 21. 2018 17:37

Kevinstudent

Newbie Joined: Jun 08, 2016 02:38 Messages: 5 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 17:43

Quote You said "11-15k bitrate"??? Isn't that in Mbps?

Youtube's recommended is 10k.

SoNic67

Senior Contributor Joined: Sep 27, 2014 14:14 Messages: 1308 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 17:51

Quote

Quote You said "11-15k bitrate"??? Isn't that in Mbps?

Youtube's recommended is 10k.

You are wrong. No wonder it looks like s**t. Look at the original footage bitrate!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 21. 2018 17:52

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Apr 21, 2018 18:52

If you take 60 fps footage and slow it by half and render at 60 fps, you will certainly have jerky footage, would you not?

I can't be doing 60 fps uploads - I need them at 30 fps.

In my understanding. slow motion effect 0.5 x
60 fps render, every 2 frames 1 is used and 1 scorned.
Rendering at 60 fps is what happens.

30 fps from 60 fps I do not know how PD16 behaves.
If every 4 frames 1 is used and 3 scorned, it will not be good I guess.
If you are going to produce the video at 60P first.
Then convert to 30P all 30P video will stay the same.
Note that the video does not flow as smoothly as before 60P

Are you recommending that my timeline should be at 60 fps despite rendering at 30 fps? Everywhere I've seen recommends editing at the same FPS that you are rendering - which makes sense because there is the potential to be making cuts and adjustments that
don't fall in the proper rendered time codes.

On the 1st topic I understood that you were filming at 60 fps.
Either way, the format you choose to Produce the video, will prevail

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at Apr 23. 2018 17:11

AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate

PlaySound

Senior Contributor Joined: Dec 02, 2010 10:26 Messages: 2031 Offline

Apr 24, 2018 11:53

From this topic I discovered a problem with PD16.
I make a DVD-Video from an MPEG2 video 30 fps progressive, the result was terrible, image with much shaking
This same process in old PD version does not happen.
Also if I convert (produce) 1st to MPEG interlaced and then make the DVD looks normal.
Note: PD16 does not have Profile for Progressive MPEG2. I do for my use.
In PD, DVD-video, the video will be interlaced. AMD-FX 8350 / 8GB DDR3
SSD SUV400S37240G / 2-HD WD 1TB
AMD Radeon R9 270 / AOC M2470SWD
Windows 7-64 / PD16 Ultimate