Announcement: Our new CyberLink Feedback Forum has arrived! Please transfer to our new forum to provide your feedback or to start a new discussion. The content on this CyberLink Community forum is now read only, but will continue to be available as a user resource. Thanks!
CyberLink Community Forum
where the experts meet
| Advanced Search >
Rendered Quality / Format Conversions
James [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2009 10:56 Messages: 3 Offline
[Post New]
I am relatively new to video editing. I am using PD7 Ultra. My camea is a Canon XH-A1 and I recorded in HD with 60i frame rate. 60+ minute video files are in the 13 gig range.
My problem is that the edited and rendered video quality/fidelity is short of what it is straight off of the tape out of the camera. It is pretty close but definitely less. I feel though it is the difference between comercial quality and not. It is difficult to describe what the deficiency is... it just seems less sharp/polished. I am rendering mp2 DVD-HQ
I know I am getting ahead of myself but I have been looking into "Intermediary" software like Cineform's "NEO Scene". If so, which would be best?
Is an "Intermediary" the last piece of my puzzle?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Jim G.
James W
Senior Contributor Location: Lakeland, FL USA Joined: Aug 18, 2008 10:36 Messages: 911 Offline
[Post New]
Output quality depends on the bit rate which you are outputting your final project to. Your camera is certainly better than the average consumer camera so its very likely that your output has a lower bit rate than then the raw footage you inputted.

If you are recording in HD I would suggest that you should first output using the MPEG2 HD format or the Blueray format (there both the same thing). Rendering using one of those formats gives very good results and is much better than the DVD HQ output. This allows you to preserve a HD version and you can convert that version to DVD format later. Others on the forum have said the other software does a better job of producing DVD quality video, but it's really in the eye of the beholder.

Good luck,

Jim Q9300 2.5 GHz
4 GB Ram
Nvidia 9800 GT
vn800rider
Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline
[Post New]
Hi Jim G,

Jim has made two good points :-
Bitrate is a mark of the quality (together with resolution of course)

Your camera records HDV: 1080i/60i, 1080i/30f, 1080i/24f which (I think - but someone correct me if I'm wrong) is actually 1440x1080 at 25Mbps with a constant bit rate.

DVD HQ is 720x576 at 8Mbps
BD is 1440x1080 (or 1920x1080) at 25Mbps

So (broadly speaking) your raw footage can be matched by a BD output and that might be the way to go.

However, Jim's second point is equally valid - the eye of the beholder - so to speak.

Technically you may be able to produce the best output file - but final quality is not only dependent on file specification but on what you actually see, your choice of playback kit and the compromises that are made by the editing and producing software process.

I wrote (from a pragmatic perspective) three articles around these issues that might also determine how to go.

Article 1: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/5924.page
Article 2: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/5925.page
Article 3: http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/posts/list/0/5926.page

Maybe they might help in some way?

Cheers
Adrian


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Mar 06. 2009 16:56

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.
James W
Senior Contributor Location: Lakeland, FL USA Joined: Aug 18, 2008 10:36 Messages: 911 Offline
[Post New]
Adrian,

DVD HQ is 720x576?

Others have told me that it is 720x480. You may very well be right, but I just wanted to check for sure. Could this be a NTSC vs PAL issue?

Thanks,

Jim W Q9300 2.5 GHz
4 GB Ram
Nvidia 9800 GT
[Post New]
Hi Jim G,

Don't think you are not seeing degradation.
Each different company's video editing software uses different encoders for mpeg2 (DVD format) and some are better than others even at the same bitrate.
For example if I get a blu-ray rip and convert to DVD using PD7 the result would not look like the same commercially available DVD despite the same bitrate of the two finished DVDs. The reason being the mpeg2 encoder used by commercial distribution companies is far more complex and powerful than that one shipped with PD7. This is the extreme example but points out that all is not equal in the encoding stakes.
Powerdirector's strengths lie in it's excellent user interface.
[Post New]
Quote: Could this be a NTSC vs PAL issue?

Yes indeed. PAL countries sacrificed frame rate for resolution. All started really with AC power specifications differing is different countries.
vn800rider
Senior Contributor Location: Darwen, UK Joined: May 15, 2008 04:32 Messages: 1949 Offline
[Post New]
Yes, sorry - read off the res from PD but my default is PAL, should have said that.

Cheers
Adrian Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. (see below)
Confucius
AMD Phenom IIX6 1055T, win10, 5 internal drives, 7 usb drives, struggling power supply.
[Post New]
Quote:
How can I improve the rendering quality?


When you find out please let me know as well

(sorry to be unhelpful but not much has changed despite lots of discussion)

As for the bit rate, when you go to the create file you can edit the default profile by clicking the first box below the description. It doesn't really help though. I have tried all the variables one at a time and no real change in end product.
JimVBrook [Avatar]
Newbie Location: Auckland, New Zealand Joined: Sep 16, 2008 13:54 Messages: 18 Offline
[Post New]
Moved to separate thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Mar 16. 2009 01:42

James [Avatar]
Newbie Joined: Feb 23, 2009 10:56 Messages: 3 Offline
[Post New]
I have found through experimentation that unedited produced and burned video matches my straight from tape quality. It is only after adding edits that quality falls off under the same conditions.

Any suggestions?

In my first post, I mentioned "intermediary" and no one has touched on that. Any one have any knowledge or experience there?

Jim G.
[Post New]
Hi Jim,

I will summarise my conclusions about PD using 1080i footage.

1. It has a great front end.
2. It handles editing of AVCHD well compared to other NLEs
3. It renders poorly to AVCHD but almost maintains quality rendering to Mpeg2 Blu-ray profile
4. It has average downconverting to SD Mpegs (DVD). Other programmes are equal, others are better.
5. GPU encoding of AVCHD is better than non-GPU encoding
6. SVRT does not work for AVCHD, Canon or Panasonic.

Using this mix, you need to come up with a workflow which suits you and your endpoint.
Powered by JForum 2.1.8 © JForum Team